Need help when to pay my engine builder

ok my builder wants payment before the engine dyno.
Yes, in theory he has done his work,,but to what result?
I'm willing to pay parts. N. Hold the labour cost until said results
I'm I being empty header here,, or, is my point valid?
Thank in advance....
I would like to hear a response from you J
Any others will this experience

In my experience you pay when the engine is fully assembled. You’re definitely paying before you drop it in the car and dyno it. If something happens on the dyno it comes down to your builder’s individual warranty or guarantee.

And at that point you’d have to prove what caused the failure. Bad tune, bad gas, etc and that’s on you. If the tear down is inconclusive or you’re on the receiving end of some very bad luck and got a faulty component straight from the manufacturer then you’re also probably out of luck. If the builder made a legitimate mistake with the assembly, then if he’s even halfway reputable he should cover it. Have you discussed this with him? What’s his policy?

These are the types of things you want to discuss upfront before the build is commissioned. It could save all parties involved a lot of headaches.

Is the car going to a different place for the dyno tune?

I’ve built 2 engines that have been broke in on an engine dyno. Both builders (Livernois and a local shop) assembled the engines and did the dyno break-in. I’m pretty sure it was a half down or parts cost down and balance due upon completion.
Is the builder the owner of the dyno?
If so, I’d assume you pay the balance AFTER successfully completed engine dyno. If the builder is having the engine dyno’d at another facility, I could see some fluctuation there, but they should have some warranty of performance.
Either way, good luck.
What is the engine build?
-J

Thanks
Yes the engine dyno is at a different loc
His policy is he would fix in due time
He will be at the dyno session
J rebuilding the 5.4

tvspower said:

Thanks
Yes the engine dyno is at a different loc
His policy is he would fix in due time
He will be at the dyno session
J rebuilding the 5.4

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Since your builder isn't doing the tuning and it's not his dyno then I would expect nothing less than having to pay for the motor upfront before the tuning session. He's not out of line asking for that.

I paid for half of my build with JDM upfront, the remainder of the balance was due before they shipped the long block to me. They do have a 12 month warranty on their builds, though, as long as you can prove detonation didn't cause the failure.

If my business was engine building and I wanted to stay in business, nothing would leave the shop until it was paid in full.


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genesmob said:

If my business was engine building and I wanted to stay in business, nothing would leave the shop until it was paid in full.


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Click to expand...

This

RBB. All 3 shops are connected thru type of work
Gee guys ok I'll pay half, then rest when dyno finished
RBB. Engine dyno plus break in....this is want we all agreed on.....the engine goes back to my car after engine dyno.....

Just spoke to all people connected
I'm told to pay builder before it leaves his shop
Tuner will be present for basic tune to break in motor
So ok, will let youknow how events pan out

Thanks for the straight up replies....

tvspower said:

RBB. All 3 shops are connected thru type of work
Gee guys ok I'll pay half, then rest when dyno finished
RBB. Engine dyno plus break in....this is want we all agreed on.....the engine goes back to my car after engine dyno.....

Just spoke to all people connected
I'm told to pay builder before it leaves his shop
Tuner will be present for basic tune to break in motor
So ok, will let youknow how events pan out

Click to expand...

Getting that thing on an engine dyno before paying the bill in full is a win for you. As gene was saying, you would never normally get an engine out of the shop before paying in full. Good luck to you, I'm sure it'll go fine.

A buddy paid for his build and went to a dyno tuner for break-in and dyno (engine dyno - not chassis dyno) recommended by the builder. Exhaust was vented directly outside thru a wall of the dyno shop so he didn’t think to walk outside and around the building to see the exhaust gases. After the dyno break in and tune, buddy took engine home and installed the motor. Car blew smoke like crazy. Buddy contacted builder, who said he’d rebuild the motor (AGAIN) for $2500 plus labor. My buddy said hell no to that, and took the motor to another builder that did a great job. But he paid for it.

My point is - be very clear about who is liable in the event the motor does not perform as advertised. This should be in writing between the engine owner, the builder, and the dyno shop.

tvspower said:

Thanks for the straight up replies....

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I'm confused since you have another thread active on dropping a crate engine in. This thread makes it sound like this build is already in progress.....is that correct?

Yes my rebuild is just about ready to go to Wicked garage for the accessories to go on....
Then to the engine dyno for break in n tune
I'm been looking at ford crate engines if this project falls flat
Cost wise,

PaxtonShelby said:

A buddy paid for his build and went to a dyno tuner for break-in and dyno (engine dyno - not chassis dyno) recommended by the builder. Exhaust was vented directly outside thru a wall of the dyno shop. Buddy took engine home and installed the motor. Car blew smoke like crazy. Buddy contacted builder, who said he’d rebuild the motor (AGAIN) for $2500 plus labor. My buddy said hell no to that, and took the motor to another builder that did a great job. But he paid for it.

My point is - be very clear about who is liable in the event the motor does not perform as advertised. This should be in writing between the engine owner, the builder, and the dyno shop.

Click to expand...

Agree 100%

RBB said:

I'm confused since you have another thread active on dropping a crate engine in. This thread makes it sound like this build is already in progress.....is that correct?

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Blew rings/pistons last June
Finally engine is rebuilt ground up

Good luck man.
It’s an awesome experience seeing your build on the engine dyno. Definitely be there and take pics.
For reference my last 427W made 555hp NA on break-in with untuned carb. Made a bit more in the car with an 88mm turbo and EFI
Let us know how it goes.
Will the 5.4 be dyno’d with the supercharger and full accessories?
-J

Yes J it will be
J I'm confused,
Everyone involved agreed to my thinking when plans were made.... there was no comment like
" ya ok Bruce pay me before engine dyno n good luck
If that was the case 1st time, I would have moved on
Anyways, I asked for the invoice, spoke to w/g , n they are ready
Dyno n tuner are ready
So we shall see

After speaking with Businessmen in my group
(3 own their business)
Agreed by all after hard driven Business sense
We agreed. I will pay 50% of his invoice then rest after dyno. Seems like he has no faith in his ability
Why..... when he said to pay him before dyno, he wasn't acting in good business practice
He n dyno group are friends in business, who have dyno' his engines before.......
Why is he afraid to stand beside all us during dyno
So keeping 50%. Keeps his investment alive.
In a Business Sense

That’s great if the builder goes for it.