Panhard Bar vs. Watts Link

I accessed the tech article below through a periodic email from Maximum Motorsports and wanted to share with the community. It's an interesting read for anyone considering the move from a panhard bar to a watts link for handling purposes.

Busting the Myth of the Watts Link

Just as well read this one, too:

Griggs Racing – PDF - Tech Article - Myth Debunking Panhard Bar Superiority vs Proper Watts Link

^^^Good stuff, all points of view welcome!

So as to keep us lesser mortals hopelessly confused!

Something to read shortly.

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Thanks for sharing!
The MM article really focuses on FOX/SN95 mustangs and it sounds like the debate is over those rather than the s197.

Either way, I think we all agree the stock setup sucks, lol.

Watts link > panhard bar

merkyworks said:

Watts link > panhard bar

Click to expand...

Proof?

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On a race car that doesn't have whole lot of suspension travel in the first place, there may not be as much difference. But on a street car, it's a whole different driving experience. I've gone with an adjustable poly bushed panhard rod as well as the Fays2 watts link and I'm keeping my watts link. Want proof, drive one.

Catmonkey said:

On a race car that doesn't have whole lot of suspension travel in the first place, there may not be as much difference. But on a street car, it's a whole different driving experience. I've gone with an adjustable poly bushed panhard rod as well as the Fays2 watts link and I'm keeping my watts link. Want proof, drive one.

Click to expand...

Not the answer I was looking for, but...

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I don't track my car, so it won't be a time slip type of proof. All the theory in the world doesn't mean crap, if you can feel the difference in the driving experience. On a smooth twisty track, I'm not so sure you'd notice a difference in time slips, but when you have an uneven road surface in a turn, I'd rather have the watts underneath me even if I'm not faster. Having a car that's more predicable has some merit.

There is a member, either here or on that udder site that is a pro track racer and he say that his team prefers the panhard bar. That said I have no idea since I have not used a watts.

Catmonkey said:

On a race car that doesn't have whole lot of suspension travel in the first place, there may not be as much difference. But on a street car, it's a whole different driving experience. I've gone with an adjustable poly bushed panhard rod as well as the Fays2 watts link and I'm keeping my watts link. Want proof, drive one.

Click to expand...

Simply comparing the relationship between the body attachment and the axle attachment on the two set ups and knowing how the body and axle move (travel) during the driving experience is completely different between the two set ups is a quick clue.

The panhard bar does not keep the axle "square" under the body through all motions of travel, we all know this because when we lower our cars, the body pushes the opposite direction of the axle, thus the need to shorten the panhard (adjustable). <<This motion will also happen when a car is pressed into a turn and one side dips/lowers. The Watts link does center and keep centered because the axle attachment is not "one sided" (as it where), but instead centered. <<That is the best way I know how to explain it.

It is not only turns. What happens when you do a moderate to hard acceleration, the nose raises, the rear does what........Lowers......, just like lowering the car, what does the body do? It pushes away, but only for that moment the axle and body relationship change and are not "square" as it was when the panhard bar was originally adjusted.

R

I noticed an enormous improvement on my ‘14 GT after installing my BMR Watts. As was said above - the improvement when hitting bumps mid-turn is huge. So much more stability. Maybe on a road course this isn’t a factor, but on public roads around here it definitely matters.

PaxtonShelby said:

I noticed an enormous improvement on my ‘14 GT after installing my BMR Watts. As was said above - the improvement when hitting bumps mid-turn is huge. So much more stability. Maybe on a road course this isn’t a factor, but on public roads around here it definitely matters.

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Did you go from stock to watts or panhard to watts?

When I was setting up my rear end I did a lot of research on this and came across a youtube video with cameras set up under the car for both watts and panhard. The conclusion was that watts actually does not offer any benefit over panhard. I ended up going with panhard as I have diff cooler and did not want to swap out my cover.

Here is some factual data on the BMR poly-bushed adjustable panhard bar setup on my car. At static ride height without driver, my panhard bar is nearly level and axle is perfectly centered as it sits on my garage floor. With OE diameter tires and 1-5/8” suspension drop in the rear, the axle mounting point and chassis mounting point are 11-1/2” and 11-7/16” respectively, making my rear roll center right at 11-1/2” +/-. Realizing that no two combinations will be a true apples to apples comparison, I would like to see a rear roll center height comparison from a forum member with a properly installed watts link.

Robert M said:

It is not only turns. What happens when you do a moderate to hard acceleration, the nose raises, the rear does what........Lowers......, just like lowering the car, what does the body do? It pushes away, but only for that moment the axle and body relationship change and are not "square" as it was when the panhard bar was originally adjusted.

Click to expand...

I’m not a suspension expert by any means, but don’t discount the effects of anti-squat that LCA relocation brackets provide unless they are set up parallel to the ground.

Klaus said:

Did you go from stock to watts or panhard to watts?

When I was setting up my rear end I did a lot of research on this and came across a youtube video with cameras set up under the car for both watts and panhard. The conclusion was that watts actually does not offer any benefit over panhard. I ended up going with panhard as I have diff cooler and did not want to swap out my cover.

Click to expand...

Went from stock to the suspension mods in my sig in one afternoon.

I wonder what the major differences are between an IRS and SRA concerning Watt's vs panhard.

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I went from stock, to LCA's, UCA and FRPP M-FR3A-SVTA (adjustable panhard bar, lowered, etc). From there I got a sweet deal on a BMR Watts with the racing style endlinks.

The swap from stock to LCA/UCA was huge for launching, wheel hop disappeared.

Moving to the M-FR3A-SVTA package was once again a night and day difference and damn she hugs corners!

Moved to the BMR Watts: Here's where my input leaves so much an apples to apples comparison and goes more to an annoyance. The BMR Watts link doesnt fit the M-FR3A-SVTA rear sway bar. BMR suggested going back to a stock swaybar when I called them about it. Well, wouldn't ya know, of all the stock parts I've removed from my car and set aside to store ... front and rear sways were the only two I've sold. So instead I was told to mount the center pivot up high on the mounting plate in order to make the watts behave like a rear swaybar. I did so and I will agree with the others, that she definitely felt more planted coming around corners on the crappy roads out here in Norfolk. Problem I ran into was it clunked (I figured the sphericals) and it never really felt right adjusted like it was. The BMR installation paperwork really didn't tell me much about adjusting the arms other than to try and get them as level as possible. It didn't say whether or not it was detrimental if the center link was angled to one side vice verticle. I eventually removed the BMR Watts and have it sitting in my garage because the clunking was just too much and I didn't have the stock rear swaybar to re-install to see if I could get the Watts tuned to a more "normal" setting. If I can ever find a stock GT500 swaybar again locally, I'll probably give it a whirl again since I can just go to the hobby shop on base and get the car up on a lift whenever I feel like it (yeah retirement!).

........and then once an owner decides to upgrade to a Watts Link, the question is, "Which is best, propeller mounted to a body mount frame like the BMR and Fays2? OR propeller mount to the axle cover?"

^^^ I am not sure that there can be a "best" determined? I am sure that anyone with a GT500 diff. cooler would go with the Watts Link that allows them to keep their oem diff. cover with cooling lines in place.

Me personally, I have always liked the billet alum. Shelby/Fays2 that Shelby offered through Shelby Perf. Parts, it is a little bit lighter than the steel unit and it just looks cool.......I don't think the billet alum. Fays2 is available from anywhere else except Shelby.





R