HI

Hello, I just bought a 2014 Mustang GT about 6 months ago. Not sure how my approach to building it will go, but I do like the car. It has a level of being unrefined that makes it appealing to me. I do have to work around a budget so it will not be thrown together rapidly.

The first thing that had to go was the terrible factory shifter. I replaced with a Hurst Comp+ and to help out with the leftover sloppiness I installed a Whiteline transmission poly insert bushing. This helped out dramatically with the shifting issues I was experiencing.

I installed 2 JLT 3.0 oil separators. Changed the air filter to a reusable K&N and also switched my oil to Pennzoil platinum 5w 30 with a K&N oil filter.

The last parts that I currently have to install (Hopefully this weekend) are some Whiteline adjustable lower control arms and upper third link. With a BMR upper third link bracket. (Couldn't find one made by Whiteline)

I plan on also fabricating my own frame connectors as well as some strut braces when time permits. My philosophy is why build the motor further when the rest of the car cannot handle it yet. Also I am hoping the Whiteline parts will in fact cure the terrible wheel hop issue that the car currently experiences whenever I lose traction.

The car is mainly for fun will probably not see the track to often and is not my daily driver. Been trying to learn as much about this car as I can, and have enjoyed owning it. It is my second mustang the first was a 71 Mach One that was not savable. Will probably like to have some opinions on parts that I am considering since I hope the people here have a broader range of experience with parts than the current pool of people that I talk to.

First question would be about the 8.8 axle. Is it worth while to weld the axle tubes to the housing? Also has anyone had any experience with mini lockers? I like the idea of the Torsen, but I am wanting to hear more about them. I will be going back to the site and looking up the options on my car again with the VIN to see what I have for rear end gearing.

Thanks!

What kind of track are you referring to?

I can tell you that by design lockers aren't as street-friendly as either clutch/cone limited slip diffs or Torsen types. Especially in the rain or under other conditions of low tire grip. Under power, they lock the axle shafts together, which is good as long as you're going either perfectly straight or so close to straight that tire slip can accommodate the necessary difference in outside vs inside wheel path radius without snapping loose. See the comment concerning rain.

Torsens are really a corner-carver's kind of differential - there are others that use the same principle - and some have acquired a reputation for being a bit fragile in harsh dragstrip use. If you're going this way, the 2.7 bias ratio Torsen as used in the 2013-ish Boss 302 may be the best of the bunch for a NA street driver, and Ford must be choosing Torsens over the Traction-loks for the more serious corner-carving versions of the Mustang for a reason.

FWIW a 2.7 Torsen is currently on my own wish list. I do road courses and hard-ish street cornering from time to time but no drag strips.


Norm

Thanks for the reply Norm! Everything is pointing towards the Torsen. I was unaware that the track cars were using Torsens. I do not drive the car during salt season so the only slippery surface I run across is when it rains. Wasn't sure if a locker may behave like the open diff, or not since the stock diff gets squirrely on slick surfaces. Looking at mainly running at a road course, but may end up going to the strip with it because I have never participated in an "organized" drag race. Not sure how well the MT-82 will hold up in a drag race since I have been hearing about how fragile it is. I was warned about running a road course and that I should bring along new pads and rotors. It would be a problem to try and drive home with warped rotors and glazed pads.

Lockers apparently can behave like an open diff, but only when you're coasting. They rather abruptly lock up solid once power is applied. Kind of an all-or-nothing situation, step change/no transition from one state to the other.

On brakes, it's easier to do the pad and possibly rotor swapping at home if you're going to run a two-pad strategy. Don't intentionally put yourself under the gun to hurry through a brake job in paddock.

The other option - as long as you don't drive the car in really cold weather and before you're up there running lap times with the really fast guys anyway - is to run a lower-level track pad all the time and put up with the dust, some noise, and severe rotor wear if you choose pads badly. Sometimes on the cooler days it may take a stop or two to get the good bite back, but that's easy enough.

G-locs and Carbotechs up through R12 or XP12 (respectively) that I personally have experience with are among the least abrasive track-capable pads in street driving, Hawks may be among the worst (my experience, anyway).


Norm

I think you would be better off just going with BMR subframe connectors. They fit perfect, tie into the rear torque box perfect and sit at just the right place to be used as jacking rails. I have them and they are great. No use reinventing the wheel. And there are a lot of better products than Whiteline. If your going BMR for upper control arm I would simply stick with BMR all the way. Better quality all the way around.

phishplate,

Welcome aboard!

Whlie you're under the rear end of the car, may I offer a suggestion? Consider relocation brackets if you car is lowered or if you plan to lower your car (even an inch). On my car, relocation brackets made a huge difference in squelching wheel hop. And I mean the minor (but very noticeable) hop due to accidental heavy footing it on wet pavement.

The rear lower control arms should rise from the rearmost point up to the torque box end. As Chuckieduck mentioned, BMR makes high quality parts and their relo brackets are well-engineered, beefy, fit like a glove, and offer three adjustment settings. Look in the vendor's forum and you'll find a variety of sources of parts and you can e-ogle their offerings to see how they differ from each other.

HTH,

Chris

Hey guys thanks for the welcome! I do want to get the relocation brackets! I do plan on lowering the car, but not just yet. I have to figure out my suspension options. Coil overs or air bags. I was dead set on the coil overs, but have been finding out bags can be set up to work just like coil overs. Is this true or did I watch some fantasy video overselling a product? Right now I just want to get rid of the hop. Seriously it sounds like the rear end of my car is going to rip out when I lose traction.

BMR welds good parts. I will never buy another part from Steeda. Whiteline has the best welding of them all in my purchasing experience so far. Steeda also false advertises. I originally bought the third upper link bracket from them. As advertised it was supposed to be precision TIG welded "LOL for superior strength" and what I received was a less than desirable MIG welded part that my kid could have done a better job welding. I sent it back and got my refund then gave the money to BMR for a much more satisfactory made part. I will explain more if you like in another post, but I run short on the most precious commodity of all time. Then I can explain why I can make the BMR frame connectors because I saw the picture of them and I have the most important part of all the car that they are supposed to get welded into.

Alright I am back. About me... 25 years in welding and fabrication. Enough welding qualifications to choke a horse. TIGAW, SMAW, MIGAW, SAW, Oxyfuel welding, and brazing. I have welded and fabricated just about everything. From Harley Davidson gas tanks(For Harley) to enormous earth moving equipment. Light gauge weldments to welding the structural components of buildings together on site. I have welded custom parts for cars and trucks as well as done insurance repair work on everything from Dodge Caravans(Shout out to my engineering friends whom design a bracket to break in a frontal crash, but end up ripping off the top half of the transmission. I have yet to actually see one of these brackets break ) to high end Porsche 911's that someone made the mistake of teaching their daughter how to learn to drive stick shift in I have fabbed and welded for racing teams as well as custom car shops who are very picky about how a weld looks over its functionality I have done this off of blue prints, technical descriptions, verbal instructions, or the cocktail napkin drawing that someone handed my boss while drunk at the bar. I have had to make parts that fit as an exact replacement for parts that are worn out and in need of replacement. I have made custom leaf spring hanger for a 4x4 enthusiasts after ripping out the factory independent suspension(Don't ask I don't know, but some how for serious mudding indy suspension apparently is undesirable. With as much $ spent on the truck itself not sure why they don't buy older models that came factory with it). I have repaired and modified semi truck frames and dump trucks. Made parts for cars that are rotted out and no available parts to buy and replace them with just to help out friends. Just a brief run down of some of the things I have had to do in my years(Oh yeah there's more). Oh and to top it off I am a Certified Welding Inspector (CWI) the hated guy whom can write Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's) and run Pre Qualification Reports (PQR's) to qualify a welding process to a code or standard. I Also have and can run welder qualifications so that the guy can be like "I am State Certified!". And if you make a serious oops while welding that you encounter legal trouble I am one of the guys whom can walk into the court of law as expert witness testimony and put the nail in your coffin as to why you F'd up and explain it in scientific terms. So yeah I guess you would call me a weld snob since I will not pay for anything welded that looks like it was left at the harbor for the sea gulls to decorate with droppings. No I am not offering to make parts for anyone, but it does allow me to customize my vehicle with things I personally made and can customize to my own liking. The only real limiting factor for me is time. I mentioned in an earlier post I hoped to install some control arms this weekend.... Found out today that may not happen since my boss and myself may have to work through the weekend installing one of those fancy uni-stringer stair cases. The ones with the single stringer tube going up holding all the stair treads on it and the glass sides. I haven't looked but I am pretty sure you can find images on pintrest or whatever its called to see what I am talking about.

Sorry for the horrible wall of words. If my work schedule predictably screws me out of my free time BMR will end up getting my money since they are good people. I have communicated with them when I returned that abomination that steeda made to buy their upper third link bracket. Hopefully I didn't kill the good conversation some were having here with me.

phishplate said:

Sorry for the horrible wall of words. If my work schedule predictably screws me out of my free time BMR will end up getting my money since they are good people. I have communicated with them when I returned that abomination that steeda made to buy their upper third link bracket. Hopefully I didn't kill the good conversation some were having here with me.

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I wouldn't worry about it just yet.

I would venture a guess that there really aren't that many people on forums like this one who do much welding (if they do any at all). Of the 145,000 or so members here, maybe a few hundred. How many of the rest even look at the welds on the things they buy is anybody's guess, but I don't think it's very high unless it's something that broke.

With no certs, all I can claim is that I've been able to stick two pieces of metal together and that over the past 55 years or so everything I stuck together stayed stuck together . . . with exactly one non-automotive exception involving a buzz-box and some rusty bed-iron angle stock. Just so you know, I worked as a structural engineer (shipbuilding and power plant piping) for most of my career, not so distant from welding as most occupations. Given a little practice time, I might do my own weld-on relo brackets if I ever feel I need to add them. But I don't think I'd do anybody else's.


Norm

I used to claim to be a welder. Not certified or even close. But not after I went through trying to tig weld my rear end on my 5.0. After that ordeal I consider myself a guy who knows how to weld a little bit, but not an actual welder.

Vic

I am going to make my boss pick up some 309L so I can tig my axle tubes in, but I am probably going to wait until I have a Torsen and a Watts Link so I have a good reason to pop the cover off and drain the fluid.

On a positive note... I have my new control arms in! The third link was a breeze although I did forget to order a new bushing for the axle housing. That will be getting ordered soon so I can correct that problem. It was a good idea to do this though. The factory bushings were dry rotted and for the most part toast. Not sure how this worked out, but the lower control arms were a complete pain to swap out. The forward bolts had rusted into the metal sleeve in the rubber bushing. After much hammering, heating, and PB Blaster we were able to get the drivers side out. and swapped that control arm. The rear bolts come out with no issue just the forward ones were problematic. Went to the passenger side and the same thing was happening there as well. I decided to punt on those. I grabbed the 4 1/2" grinder and a cut off wheel and cut the bolt. Hind sit being 20/20 I should have done that on the driver side to save the time and screwing around. We were trying to save the bolts, but after seeing the condition of the drivers side I opted to get new ones at the hardware store. What surprised me is that you can tell the car wasn't winter driven. Being 5 years old I am surprised at how rusted into the bushing insert they were.

Despite the effort it took I am glad I did swap those components out. Wow what a difference it had made! While the wheels were off I noticed I will need a brake job soon. What kind of pads and rotors are people running? How would you rate them?

Carbotechs or G-locs for pads (basically the same pads, designed by the same individuals) and plain Centrics for rotors. I've used slotted/grooved before, but that mostly just adds expense once rotors become consumable items either through thickness wear or thermal heat-checking (very fine spider-web-ish surface cracking where being able to catch a fingernail in any of them means it's rotor replacement time for both sides on that axle). Street driving should not generate heat checking.

Street pads in the cars that don't see track time (Bobcat/1521 in CT for the Maxima in my sig, GS-1 G-locs were in the car that the WRX replaced and will go in the WRX when I can get around to it).

The Mustang gets entry-level track pads (8's, 10's, and 12's). I wasn't happy with the softish bite from Hawk's original HPS pads, and way unhappy about rotor wear with Hawk's HP+ that had the good bite. 8's and 10's are at least comparable to HP+ for bite, and wear rotors like HPS. Even 12's don't eat rotors nearly as fast as HP+.


Norm

Thank you for the info! I will take a look. Sorry been busy. I do have some pics of a job that was recently completed. AT least as far as I will be taking it. The wooden treads will be secured down and glass sides will be added by the customer to complete it.

A budget option for upgrading your diff if the FRPP M4700C. It has carbon friction discs and a MUCH stiffer pre-load spring. It is a noticeable improvement over stock.

MKMotorsport said:

A budget option for upgrading your diff if the FRPP M4700C. It has carbon friction discs and a MUCH stiffer pre-load spring. It is a noticeable improvement over stock.

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Wouldn't that be something you'd choose if straight-line acceleration was more important to you and cornering not so much?

It sounds like it is trying to be closer to a locker than the stock LSD while still allowing slip once you force it to overcome the preload (which is still trying to keep the car going straight ahead for a slightly greater contribution to vehicle understeer).


Norm

Interesting. More stuff to look up and learn about. I do have a question about cooling. Now that the weather is warning up and we are seeing 60+ degree days. When at operating temp and idling at a stand still. Is it normal for the engine to lug when the electric fans kick in? You can even see it on the tach when it occurs. I can only assume that with the emissions controls running the engine hot for the sake of better emissions that the fans kicking in at regular cycles in that instance would be considered normal. The part that I do not get is why when they start my engine will lug for a second or two then return to normal. I did replace the battery with one of the recommended configuration and amperage for the car. There really should be no lack of power unless this is either normal, alternator issue, or a relay that may be going bad, or is this normal and not an issue? Internet searches do not turn up anything directly on this topic directly.

phishplate said:

Interesting. More stuff to look up and learn about. I do have a question about cooling. Now that the weather is warning up and we are seeing 60+ degree days. When at operating temp and idling at a stand still. Is it normal for the engine to lug when the electric fans kick in? You can even see it on the tach when it occurs.

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I've never noticed any behavior like that.

Try asking that question in a new thread that specifically identifies that as the topic.


Norm