Guys who drag race, looking for some input to get this car dialed in

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
Chopping away at my list of issues after the first passes on the car last night, I realize this car is going to be a little bit of a learning curve for me and dialing it in.

1. What do you guys see with IAT's when you log your passes?
I'd say it was mid 70's to low 80 ambiant last night. I have a larger moroso resovoir with straight gold coolant in it and a Afco pro HE with dual fans and I was seeing like low to mid 120's at start and about 150* at the end of the pass. I thought it would have been a bit cooler than that, but. . .
I assume I should try to pull out some coolant and mix in some ice between runs and then drain when I leave and put the coolant back in?

2. Does the concensus run a line lock kit?
I was having some problems getting heat into the tires while getting foot brake on to hold it. As soon as I did it, I would lose wheel speed too much. Now I do have 20's with DR's so I know that is not helping me. I find that if I just do a burnout with no footbrake, I cannot get enough heat in them and cannot modulate the gas enough.

3. Does anyone use a clutch release valve by chance to give feedback on them?
I was looking at a Magnus release valve for when the rest is dialed in to get a consistant low 60'. I just dont have the magic clutch slip technique and always made it up on the big end. Id like to fix that with this device, but not sure how I feel about it yet

4. There there is the dreaded loss of boost
I have been battling belt slip and boost loss with this thing. I see a very tiny bit of dust on the front of the blower now after a bunch of pulls, but not significant. I am wondering now if boost loss is attributed to temps? Does that make sense with a PDB?
I have an ARS tensioner that really did not do anything for me, I went to an 83.7" Gates RPM belt, have a Metco aux 90 set in the middle and BPS 2.4 upper. Its still just not where it needs to be. Boost will level off in upper gears, but it seems the gear I stab it in, (usually 2nd) it dips down and recovers at higher RPM

I know this is alot of data, but looking for some solid advice from guys who been through it dialing in their cars.
 

SCGallo2

Balanced performance
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
1,185
Location
Southern MD
I am not a serious drag racer, but I have about 30 passes in my car over the years while learning and gathering data. I will post a strip data log with boost, rpm, and downstream temps for comparison that you may find helpful. With a Whipple 2.9L, 3.0” upper pulley, C&R heat exchanger w/ fans, stock engine, and stock exhaust except for Borla mufflers, I am seeing right at 140*F IAT2 (downstream air temp) at the end of the quarter mile. With a 93 octane street tune, timing is being pulled at > 125*F IAT2; with a 100 octane race tune, no timing is pulled up to 140*F IAT2. I have a PFAB intercooler reservoir but have never put ice in it. Adding ice right before a run would help. Drain and put coolant back in when you get home from the track. With traction control OFF, drive through the water box then do a second gear (rev and dump clutch) burnout at 4-5k rpm for 5 seconds while gently foot-braking enough to hold your car in place, then let off the brake and power out. For launching, 3500 rpm rev with quick clutch release (not dump) works well with my car with a NT05R drag radial. Basically, you want to find the sweet spot between bogging off the line and blowing the tires off on the line. You’ll get better with more seat time.

Datalog.jpg
 

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
You’ll get better with more seat time.

View attachment 1578496

My runs, I was not worried so much about the 60 as I was getting it down the track. I had half my passes have 2nd gear lockout that it threw me off. Plus trying to foot brake it and keep it still brought wheel speed down on the burnout and stalled once.
It was just a bad night.
I went back and looked at my logs and looks like it started pulling timing in 2nd gear. I noticed the most through the traps where I was seeing high 140's to like 150. Pulled about *2 of timing.
I did launch a little lower and bogged a bit, but I wasnt too focused on that as I was lockout and trap speed. I was launching at like 3-3500 and was still a slight bog, so my car seems like it wants more RPM.

What kind of times do you pull out of yours and power estimates?
 

SCGallo2

Balanced performance
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
1,185
Location
Southern MD
What kind of times do you pull out of yours and power estimates?

On a 70*F day, a good pass for me in my car is 1.9 60 ft and 11.5 sec @ 126 mph. With my Whipple and twin 65mm throttle body, I picked up 10 mph over my stock Eaton w/ 2.6” pulley, CAI, and tune. I have dyno’d my car on three different dynos: Dyno Dynamics 662/618, Mustang Dyno 683/644, DynoJet 679/587.

Careful on the launch rpm and clutch let out... I have seen a few broken driveshafts, differentials, and axles from drag radials and a sticky track.
 

Willie

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
1,269
Location
Tucson, Arizona
I'm gonna do this in reverse order>>

I am not a serious drag racer....

Me neither but enough to be able to answer most.

For launching, 3500 rpm rev with quick clutch release (not dump) works well with my car with a NT05R drag radial.

I've tried from 2500rpm up to 3500rpm with E/T Pro Drag Radial (not street legal) and 3200rpms seemed to be the most consistent. My best short time is 1.7, but only did this one time before I basically stopped running at the track.

I run similar times. My best with a ported Eaton, cams and headers was a 10.95 @ 129 mph at 3,070 feet elevation. Visually, my engine looks stock so when NHRA tech asks if it is, I normally say, "Headers.", lol. They always passed me. I now have a 4.2 KB and they will not allow me to run any more unless I get an 8-point cage, 5-point safety harness and an NHRA license... not doing this!

Basically, you want to find the sweet spot between bogging off the line and blowing the tires off on the line. You’ll get better with more seat time.

Yeah, it's almost impossible to become consistent unless you practice this on a regular basis, which I never did.

1. What do you guys see with IAT's when you log your passes?

This depends on how dedicated you are to getting these temps down... I mean how much do you want to spend? Over the years, I've done a ton of research with different methods and ideologies, including methanol (with different mix ratios), the Chiller Killer, and ice tanks. The best I found is a methanol with water and a trunk ice tank. On the hottest summer evenings, i.e. 95 - 105 deg F with heat soak, I see end run temps between 100 - 110 deg F with 19# boost. Start run temps range between 60 - 75 deg F. That's the ice talking with no methanol.

I have a larger moroso resovoir with straight gold coolant in it....

You live in a cold climate. I do not, so I use straight distilled water and Water Wetter in both my front and rear systems. Can you go 50/50 coolant / water? Much better heat transfer than pure coolant. I would if your temps allow it.

2. Does the concensus run a line lock kit?

I definitely recommend one if you to racing at least a few times per year. Well worth the $$$.

3. Does anyone use a clutch release valve by chance to give feedback on them?

No experience here.

4. There there is the dreaded loss of boost....

Fortunately, I've never encountered this, only a freakin' squeaky belt....
 

RBB

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
1,354
Location
Stephens City, VA
I would consider those IATs normal for your setup. Your post says you’re running straight coolant, is that correct? Go at least to a 50/50 mix and dump some ice in that reservoir between runs. I start icing down every spring and don’t bother to drain what’s in there until fall. No danger of anything freezing here until winter. I drain the system in November and fill back up with my regular winter mix.

Do yourself a favor and install a line lock and WOT Box. The WOT Box is a huge help if you want consistent launches....makes a world of difference. Bias plys are also a game changer, at least for me anyways. As a bonus they’ll keep your trans/diff/suspension components happier as well.
 

69b302

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
511
Location
NY
Line lock is a must if you plan on doing a lot of 1/4 mile. IATs and launch rpm vary by setup. I run a bypass switch to run Intercooler pumps and fans in staging lanes, to ensure all is at ambient before a run. I see 120s for IAT2 at the end of a run.
 

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
thanks for the info guys.
I may try to wire in an aux switch for my pump. I thought the pump was going already at aux because the fans do, but I never really checked.
I think Im gonna at very least do a line lock for next time. I really want to do a 2step as well because holding revs just really sucks. I just get scared of hearing stuff of guys with timing chain tensioner issues and such from WOT boxes/2 steps
 

biminiLX

never stock
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
13,253
Location
Toledo, OH
What tires (and wheels) is the first question?
What power level?
Yes definitely to ice and a line lock.
20” DRs are nice for convenience but you’ll have SO much more consistency with a bias ply tire.
It’s all about getting seat time as these are very tricky manual trans cars to drag race. Developing a routine and consistency will maximize your seat time.
Again though, my best advice is a bias ply tire for the strip.
-J
 

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
What tires (and wheels) is the first question?
What power level?
Yes definitely to ice and a line lock.
20” DRs are nice for convenience but you’ll have SO much more consistency with a bias ply tire.
It’s all about getting seat time as these are very tricky manual trans cars to drag race. Developing a routine and consistency will maximize your seat time.
Again though, my best advice is a bias ply tire for the strip.
-J


I'm more trying to get the main issues resolved. Tires are not the issue at the moment. I know 20's are not ideal, but these are not my problem at the moment.
If I cannot get into 2nd gear, if my IAT's are nuts, if I cannot get a solid burnout, those are my main focus issues. Consistency will come once I can get it down the track a couple passes at full power.

Power level is currently about mid 600's with heat soak and questionable boost loss.
My logs were showing the car was pulling timing though, so I know I was lower on power.
The car was trapping 125 range pulling timing starting in 2nd gear my tuner said. I did not look too close low end, but I know it was pulling 2-2.5* through the traps.
 

sleek98

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
2,168
Location
Kansas City, MO
First things first, drain about 60% of your coolant in the IC system and put in straight distilled water. No need for 100% coolant. add ice at the track. Not 100% fix but for 3 bucks its alot better than where you are with straight coolant.

Next would be grab a line lock.

Then look into an ice tank and a better pump. I went balls out with a trunk ice tank, emp pump, j2 flow mod, triple pass he. All in I think I am around $2,500 but at the end of the run I am almost always sub 100* temp with no ice.
 

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
First things first, drain about 60% of your coolant in the IC system and put in straight distilled water. No need for 100% coolant. add ice at the track. Not 100% fix but for 3 bucks its alot better than where you are with straight coolant.

Next would be grab a line lock.

Then look into an ice tank and a better pump. I went balls out with a trunk ice tank, emp pump, j2 flow mod, triple pass he. All in I think I am around $2,500 but at the end of the run I am almost always sub 100* temp with no ice.


Thanks for the advise. I am not sure why I didnt try ice, but it was a rush night to get to the track and first time with a PDB car. My other Mustang has Meth, so I dont have these issues. lol
I will deff be getting a line lock shortly and possibly a WOT box as well.
Holy hell on the temps with that setup!!! that is AWESOME to say the least. Well done sir!
 

biminiLX

never stock
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
13,253
Location
Toledo, OH
Start with a line lock and ice for sure.
I don’t have a suggestion on the trans other than pulling it to replace the synchro and upgrading to an MGW.
Good luck.
-J
 

PM-Performance

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
1,224
Location
Blandon, PA
Start with a line lock and ice for sure.
I don’t have a suggestion on the trans other than pulling it to replace the synchro and upgrading to an MGW.
Good luck.
-J

I have an MGW. Honestly not sure I like it most days. That’s another rant for another day
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top