NSFE Put. The. Knife. Down. Please.

Its too bad cops do not carry nightsticks any more. The optics of cops wailing on a guy with sticks became kind of unpopular after Rodney King, but there are so many situations that would be helped not hurt if they were so equipped. Many of the shootings that have made the news in recent years would have been prevented if cops were allowed to give a beat down now and again. Now it is either taser or gunshot.

Klaus said:

Its too bad cops do not carry nightsticks any more. The optics of cops wailing on a guy with sticks became kind of unpopular after Rodney King, but there are so many situations that would be helped not hurt if they were so equipped. Many of the shootings that have made the news in recent years would have been prevented if cops were allowed to give a beat down now and again. Now it is either taser or gunshot.

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The ASP baton replaced the nightstick, and it was absolutely worthless. The taser phased out the ASP. None of the above would have been appropriate or aided the officers in this situation.
I do agree that the kinder, gentler approach to policing has no doubt facilitated the criminal environment we now live in. Criminals, not citizens, should fear the police and jail. There are some people who only respond to violence and they need a good ass kicking now and again to get right.

Nightstick would be about the dumbest way to get yourself killed against a guy with a knife. One wrong move and you are DONE. Only reasonable weapon against a knife attack is a gun, and you better be good with it too.

ZYBORG said:

Nightstick would be about the dumbest way to get yourself killed against a guy with a knife. One wrong move and you are DONE. Only reasonable weapon against a knife attack is a gun, and you better be good with it too.

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This...

I think some of these guys fail to realize the damage a knife can do with one swipe...

TK1299 said:

This was not a less lethal situation. In this particular situation it would have been a very costly mistake to try less lethal.

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Yeah, but two officers walking backwards wasn’t very effective either. One of the officers could have tased him, while the other provided backup with a firearm. I’m glad the perp is dead, though. Why pay $50k/year to house these idiots in prison.

PhoenixM3 said:

Here’s where I disagree. Where was the non-lethal force utilized? Don’t these cops have tasers? It’s not like they didn’t have time to employ that method to stop the knife wielding idiot. Deadly force is a last resort when all lessor means have failed or could not reasonably be employed.

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Wrong. Period


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TK1299 said:

The ASP baton replaced the nightstick, and it was absolutely worthless. The taser phased out the ASP. None of the above would have been appropriate or aided the officers in this situation.
I do agree that the kinder, gentler approach to policing has no doubt facilitated the criminal environment we now live in. Criminals, not citizens, should fear the police and jail. There are some people who only respond to violence and they need a good ass kicking now and again to get right.

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I’ve hit people as hard as I could multiple times with my CSB and I tossed it so I could punch him in the face. Only carry it because we have to carry one secondary.


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PhoenixM3 said:

Yeah, but two officers walking backwards wasn’t very effective either. One of the officers could have tased him, while the other provided backup with a firearm. I’m glad the perp is dead, though. Why pay $50k/year to house these idiots in prison.

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Wrong again. Officer using the taser would be too close to the line of fire.

We are not trained to use less lethal on a knife yielding subject. In fact, you go trough these scenarios in the academy and pay for it if you don’t shoot. I know I did.


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I remember that news reporter who did the simulation of draw and shoot or don't and had his mind changed when it was him in the situation, and even then it wasn't the real deal. I would love to experience that (simulation), even though I have a feeling I already know.

A knife inside 40 feet vs a pistol is no joke, suspect should have been shot until he was no longer a threat about 5 steps into the backpedaling assuming the angles made sense.
Unfortunately it would not look nice on a body cam, since he needed to be shot repeatedly while on the ground or getting up, I’m convinced that’s why it happened the way it did.
Sorry for the LEO that have to live in today’s world of crap ROE

PhoenixM3 said:

One of the officers could have tased him,

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Absolutely 100% false.

TK1299 said:

The ASP baton replaced the nightstick, and it was absolutely worthless. The taser phased out the ASP. None of the above would have been appropriate or aided the officers in this situation.
I do agree that the kinder, gentler approach to policing has no doubt facilitated the criminal environment we now live in. Criminals, not citizens, should fear the police and jail. There are some people who only respond to violence and they need a good ass kicking now and again to get right.

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I own an ASP. I don't want to get hit with it.

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Revvv said:

I own an ASP. I don't want to get hit with it.

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A normal person wouldn’t, someone high on meth and adrenaline ain’t gonna feel it.

None of us want to second guess what this guy did but....great training scenario.

I don’t know how I’d act or feel while I’m deciding to pull the trigger. Haven’t been there.

On one hand I can say what this guy did, up until holstering, was commendable. On the other hand, he’s putting his partner and the public at risk by not acting. Feel bad for him. You can hear the emotion in his voice when he’s begging him to stop.

After he shot you see his left hand went out of view. I suspect he went for a reload but locked up. We practice emergency reloads (running dry) and tactical mag exchanges for just this situation.

If he had stayed on target and created some distance we wouldn’t even be discussing this.

Oh, and his partner had his taser out. Fail. If he had had his sidearm out, he could have fired while officer one was locked up.


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TK1299 said:

The ASP baton replaced the nightstick, and it was absolutely worthless. The taser phased out the ASP. None of the above would have been appropriate or aided the officers in this situation.
I do agree that the kinder, gentler approach to policing has no doubt facilitated the criminal environment we now live in. Criminals, not citizens, should fear the police and jail. There are some people who only respond to violence and they need a good ass kicking now and again to get right.

Click to expand...

Revvv said:

I own an ASP. I don't want to get hit with it.

Sent from my [mind] using the svtperformance.com mobile app

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I’ve seen ASP batons actually bend while striking someone. They were a good idea, but not a good tool

TK1299 said:

I’ve seen ASP batons actually bend while striking someone. They were a good idea, but not a good tool

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They suck ass. You’d be better off holding it backwards and striking with the handle. Purposely switched to the short one so it’s lighter on my belt. That’s where it stays


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MG0h3 said:

They suck ass. You’d be better off holding it backwards and striking with the handle. Purposely switched to the short one so it’s lighter on my belt. That’s where it stays


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#PROTIP

Zemedici said:

This...

I think some of these guys fail to realize the damage a knife can do with one swipe...

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Shoot me any day over being stabbed, seriously. People think guns and bullets are terrible and the worst we have to offer. Just wait til we go back to knives, swords, and blunt objects. You want to talk about dying a horrible death? There is a reason killing has advanced to where we are today. Firearms are quick and efficient. If we just wanted to be efficient we would be blowing people up.

PhoenixM3 said:

Here’s where I disagree. Where was the non-lethal force utilized? Don’t these cops have tasers? It’s not like they didn’t have time to employ that method to stop the knife wielding idiot. Deadly force is a last resort when all lessor means have failed or could not reasonably be employed.

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In training, have a friend hold a knife or whatever 10 feet away from you. Have you gun holstered. Have him lunge at you. I bet he reaches you before you can get your gun out and shoot! We do this in training all the time. Not worth it. I want to go home at the end of my shift to see my daughter.. Her name is Shelbie of course.

svtfocus2cobra said:

Shoot me any day over being stabbed, seriously. People think guns and bullets are terrible and the worst we have to offer. Just wait til we go back to knives, swords, and blunt objects. You want to talk about dying a horrible death? There is a reason killing has advanced to where we are today. Firearms are quick and efficient. If we just wanted to be efficient we would be blowing people up.

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Knife wounds are horrendous and difficult to close, so much damage can be done.