2020 -vs 2014 GT500

Since

tt335ci03cobra said:

Can you put a link to a build thread and some dynocharts

People have made 1200whp with a tvs trinity and 200 shot. I haven’t seen 1200whp short of 3L+ pd blowers and the like on 5.4’s and 5.8’s.

Regarding my tt power, it sounds like you have a max effort tvs build. I have 10psi wastegate springs, stock computer, and 62mm wheels and put 1200whp down. It usually takes 67’s+. I can change gates and turbo wheels and pick up 200whp on 30psi. I don’t see the point because even 20psi spins at 80mph and my car spends 99% if it’s life on 10-11psi making 800whp from 6000-8000rpm.

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Here you go this is my middle of the road 2.65 TVS combo since you wanted to check out my "power band". lol



1200whp-with-vmp-2-65.1174791

CD07GT500 said:

Correct.

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Ok.

I got nothing.

Stock vs stock I posted numbers.

Modified vs modified I’ve found other numbers as well(didn’t post though)

Gt>coyote head was always better for what I could find.

Intake was always close but exhaust was not.

Still wondering about your build though.
Edit just saw above



Sent from my POFS iPhone in a rage cause this is the third try.

Need 04 Wine said:

Ok.

I got nothing.

Stock vs stock I posted numbers.

Modified vs modified I’ve found other numbers as well(didn’t post though)

Gt>coyote head was always better for what I could find.

Intake was always close but exhaust was not.

Still wondering about your build though.
Edit just saw above



Sent from my POFS iPhone in a rage cause this is the third try.

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Yea its not complicated Gimme11s just can't swallow the truth.

svt662 said:

You say you are playing with Fire in your post? Would you like to run me? 1/4 mile on a track All legal

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Playing with fire as in anything over 800whp in the 5.8 trinity is risky. We all know the rods are the weak point, so running higher rpms plus 20+ of boost them rods no like. If I had a coupe, plus drag a lot then sure! But I do not and I consider my setup as more of a cruise in car show type of ride. But I also have that power if needed for street confrontation.

02GTKB said:

Playing with fire as in anything over 800whp in the 5.8 trinity is risky. We all know the rods are the weak point, so running higher rpms plus 20+ of boost them rods no like. If I had a coupe, plus drag a lot then sure! But I do not and I consider my setup as more of a cruise in car show type of ride. But I also have that power if needed for street confrontation.

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Driving a vert with that much power will get you suicided

Need 04 Wine said:

Driving a vert with that much power will get you suicided

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I guess I am not understanding this comment? The vehicles sake or my sake?

02GTKB said:

I guess I am not understanding this comment? The vehicles sake or my sake?

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Like the car tries to kill you.....and so do Clintons.....so you get suicided by the car......

Look it made sense when I thought it up ok...lol

CD07GT500 said:

Since


Here you go this is my middle of the road 2.65 TVS combo since you wanted to check out my "power band". lol



1200whp-with-vmp-2-65.1174791

Click to expand...

Just finishing the work day and say you posted a link,

Very nice, it’s funny we both made 1208whp, I laughed when I saw that. You made it around 6200rpm if I can marry the speed to the rpm well.

My dyno pulls I’ve loaded in this thread are to 7k rpm, we’ve taken my combo to 8000rpm and power stays level/falls 10-20whp. I have a 3350lbs car and 315’s out back so my entire build is around making whp from 6000-8500rpm irs and 6spd so we strayed from torque intentionally.

I previously had a 5.4 with 57’s then 61’s. It made too much torque and kept blowing up the t56 and sheering shafts. Intentionally I wanted a power band like a built rb26 r34 skyline motor. 8500rpm peak, with great power from 6-8k, and decent power above 4, quick spool from 2500 up. I also have 3.73 gears and can stretch 1st to about 65mph north of 8k.

You have a solid 5.8 (edit 5.4)* build but I’d caution revving it past 6500. Even 6000 is plenty. Just let the torque carry you to 6k and shift, there’s a lot going on regardless of the rotating assembly’s strength. I would rev my 5.4 build to 6500-7000rpm and it blew apart. Many 4.165” strokes regardless of the build fall apart with 7k rpm.



I’m on Firefox for iPhone and it doesn’t open a new window when you try a link so I’m going to edit this with more about your build in just a big. Gimme an hour or so.

@tt335ci03cobra

His is a 5.4 gt 500....fyi

CD07GT500 said:

Yea its not complicated Gimme11s just can't swallow the truth.

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Glad I’m still living in your head for free.

Bonus points to you for using common English on that post that we all can understand!


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

@CD07GT500 nice build. Congrats and I want and hope you get tons of fun and miles out of that combo.

Enjoy your car man, you specked a nice combo to make 1200whp at 6500 with for your gt500 and enough wtq to make a lot of diesels jealous. It’s likely prefect for Texas or the heartland. Im in the Rocky Mountains and also ended up at 1200whp but from 6500-8500 with a revvy 5.3 and 9.3/1 compression. All modular stuff. A key consideration of my build is that I drive canyons in the Rocky Mountains on 91 octane, and having more than 500wtq at 2500-4500rpm mid corner in a 3350lbs sn95 is ass puckering in a canyon. I like to pull out of corners 1/2 to 3/4 throttle at 6500rpm+ As my torque bleeds off. It’s very fun when I get it just right and surprisingly planted. The forward g force pushes the car out, and the relatively low torque isn’t overpowering my lasagna noodle (albeit built) sn95. Mine peaks at 700wtq around 5500-6000rpmon pump gas with 815whp from ~6250 to 8000 and only loses a little to 8500.

My 5.4 experiences pissed me off after spending good money on great parts only to have them fail like stock parts. At moderate power levels.

My current gt/gt500 heads are pissing me off too. So far I’ve pulled the heads 3 times and currently need to do a 4th pull in 7500 miles. This time it sounds like a rocker... smh

So far in 7500 miles, my full tilt gt/gt500 mod heads have eaten:
•ford racing reluctor wheel
•ford racing tensioners
•ford racing chains
•ford racing guides
•a cam lobe on a $500 stage 3 cam
•3 titanium retainers
•MMR billet chain
•MMR billet guide heavily worn/replaced
•2 stainless exhaust valves
•one piston had to be recoated.

None of it has been major failures but it’s been enough that I’m tired of modular head architecture and the incessant failures every 2500 or so miles of high winding use. Coyote’s don’t get these kinds of failures and that’s why going forward, I’m doing coyote based projects. Coyotes are also dirt cheap. F150 mills with trans can be had for $2500. I hope you don’t end up down the same roads I’ve been while trying to get high dollar mod heads to rev with boost, but I’m pretty sure you definitely will. I’m to the point I’d rather work on simple ohc mopars and chevys. Where are the new ford 7.3 ohc’s in trucks already so I can find a wrecked one on eBay and buy the engine/trans for sub $4k and throw a simple single 88mm on it.

The new trinity mill looks to be a real gem. Very strong block married to very capable heads with a tvs. I think even with the 9.5:1 compression, it won’t be hard to get 1200whp with just 25-30psi of boost, e85, and bolt ons. Maybe light head porting and possibly a stage 2 blower cam.

The dct will probably need clutches, shafts, forks etc, and the driveshaft will probably need to be rethought.

There's a Fox body 7.3L build on YellowBullet. Apparently the guy knows people at Ford and got one of the 1st motors...should be interesting.

this reminds me of when the GT500 came out and all the terminator owners were defending their car. Love it.

I had a GT500 with power adders and it was a tire spinner but damn... what a brutal ride compared to my 350R. I still say good riddance to it, every time I jump in the 350R. Magnaride is the bomb. those who have yet to drive a 350 and especially an R, it's in another galaxy
The GT500 with the added power will leave it even further behind.. especially on the strip.
Now... I'm sure if you put a dct in the s197 it would speed it up in a line, tremendously. What about corners, you would need to add brakes, magnaride etc. in the end, it would be cheaper to buy a used S550 gt with performance pack and add a blower.

tt335ci03cobra said:

@CD07GT500 nice build. Congrats and I want and hope you get tons of fun and miles out of that combo.

Enjoy your car man, you specked a nice combo to make 1200whp at 6500 with for your gt500 and enough wtq to make a lot of diesels jealous. It’s likely prefect for Texas or the heartland. Im in the Rocky Mountains and also ended up at 1200whp but from 6500-8500 with a revvy 5.3 and 9.3/1 compression. All modular stuff. A key consideration of my build is that I drive canyons in the Rocky Mountains on 91 octane, and having more than 500wtq at 2500-4500rpm mid corner in a 3350lbs sn95 is ass puckering in a canyon. I like to pull out of corners 1/2 to 3/4 throttle at 6500rpm+ As my torque bleeds off. It’s very fun when I get it just right and surprisingly planted. The forward g force pushes the car out, and the relatively low torque isn’t overpowering my lasagna noodle (albeit built) sn95. Mine peaks at 700wtq around 5500-6000rpmon pump gas with 815whp from ~6250 to 8000 and only loses a little to 8500.

My 5.4 experiences pissed me off after spending good money on great parts only to have them fail like stock parts. At moderate power levels.

My current gt/gt500 heads are pissing me off too. So far I’ve pulled the heads 3 times and currently need to do a 4th pull in 7500 miles. This time it sounds like a rocker... smh

So far in 7500 miles, my full tilt gt/gt500 mod heads have eaten:
•ford racing reluctor wheel
•ford racing tensioners
•ford racing chains
•ford racing guides
•a cam lobe on a $500 stage 3 cam
•3 titanium retainers
•MMR billet chain
•MMR billet guide heavily worn/replaced
•2 stainless exhaust valves
•one piston had to be recoated.

None of it has been major failures but it’s been enough that I’m tired of modular head architecture and the incessant failures every 2500 or so miles of high winding use. Coyote’s don’t get these kinds of failures and that’s why going forward, I’m doing coyote based projects. Coyotes are also dirt cheap. F150 mills with trans can be had for $2500. I hope you don’t end up down the same roads I’ve been while trying to get high dollar mod heads to rev with boost, but I’m pretty sure you definitely will. I’m to the point I’d rather work on simple ohc mopars and chevys. Where are the new ford 7.3 ohc’s in trucks already so I can find a wrecked one on eBay and buy the engine/trans for sub $4k and throw a simple single 88mm on it.

Click to expand...

My car makes peak around 66-6800. I will shift it around 7-7200 with the stock crank. If I had the funds for a nice billet crank along with other combo changes I would shift the car in the 7800 range since I believe the hard limiter is at 8100.

I hope you have better luck moving forward but your failures seem to be more of a spec/assembly failure. Thanks for the kind words Ben at MMP put the combo together for me.

As far as your failures see below.
Reluctor has nothing to do with the heads.
Tensioners have nothing to do with heads. In fact they have an easier job than the coyote heads because the oiling system doesn't have CTA phasers which do use oil.
Coyote uses the same diameter chains as the GT500.
A toasted cam lobe means there was a mechanical problem.
The GT500 RFF/Lash adjuster setup is actually more robust than the Coyotes.
Titanium retainers are a waste and dependent on aftermarket manufactures to properly engineer. Stock retainers have been proven reliable to over 8000rpm and 130# on the seat
One piston had to be recoated why? MMR? Enuff said.
Coyote would have also burned two SS exhaust valves given the same conditions.

gimmie11s said:

Glad I’m still living in your head for free.

Bonus points to you for using common English on that post that we all can understand!


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

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You live in Coytard land.

CD07GT500 said:

You live in Coytard land.

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You never passed the 3rd grade.

I’ll take the coyote.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

gimmie11s said:

You never passed the 3rd grade.

I’ll take the coyote.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

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Poor Coytard

CD07GT500 said:

My car makes peak around 66-6800. I will shift it around 7-7200 with the stock crank. If I had the funds for a nice billet crank along with other combo changes I would shift the car in the 7800 range since I believe the hard limiter is at 8100.

I hope you have better luck moving forward but your failures seem to be more of a spec/assembly failure. Thanks for the kind words Ben at MMP put the combo together for me.

As far as your failures see below.
Reluctor has nothing to do with the heads.
Tensioners have nothing to do with heads. In fact they have an easier job than the coyote heads because the oiling system doesn't have CTA phasers which do use oil.
Coyote uses the same diameter chains as the GT500.
A toasted cam lobe means there was a mechanical problem.
The GT500 RFF/Lash adjuster setup is actually more robust than the Coyotes.
Titanium retainers are a waste and dependent on aftermarket manufactures to properly engineer. Stock retainers have been proven reliable to over 8000rpm and 130# on the seat
One piston had to be recoated why? MMR? Enuff said.
Coyote would have also burned two SS exhaust valves given the same conditions.

Click to expand...

It’s a 2015/16 livernois build. We’re finding lots of wear on the thrush bearings, and fragments keep finding their way into the heads. It’s not the heads or components fault singularly, but if I used a 4.6L displacement to avoid chances of thrush failures or the common pitfalls of long stroke and or wide bore modular stuff, it would be making way less power than a comparable 5.0 coyote and would not have hit my goals.

When we did my build I was gut hunch thinking to do something like a destroked 5.4 down to a 5.1 with a 3.8 or 3.9” stroke and set it for 7500rpm, but I wanted to run a t56 and irs so I didn’t want a lot of overkill torque which would break everything.

We specked a very strong 5.3 build but I should have just done a 4.6 or 4.75 build and revved it to maybe 9k on occasion. Live and learn. That said, high rpm engines die quickest.

I’m too jaded now to keep dumping money on car parts. I don’t run business like this so I’ve said to hell with it, if the variables are likely going to blow it up anyway, I’ll just use mills from wrecked trucks and mustangs as I find them and keep a decent forced induction, oil, fuel ecu (future stand alone), cooling system and suspension/chassis, and hot swap mills as they pop.

I can blow up 5 to 10 coyotes and my time swapping them for the cost of one full dresser mod mill, and the odds are honestly higher to pop the full dresser mod mill faster than the coyotes from what I’ve seen. Virtually every 4.165” stroke build I see revving past 7k blows, virtually every big bore striker fails, etc. 4.6 builds and destroked 5.4’s last well enough, but they all end up failing eventually anyways.

Main reason I’ve jumped ship to coyote power sources is cost and hassle. I hate the sound compared to modular’s though. I’ll always prefer mod mills personally but the coyote is way more practical.

I know how to make power with mod mill parts, and have forgotten more than most people know today about them. I run an fr500c intake manifold off a cammer multimatic nos line to give you an idea. I was/am a mod mill fanatic to some extents. I knew my combo would be a total dog with a sheet metal unit, and wouldn’t make much power with a cobra intake or so on.

I’ve moved on. I still want to salvage and get decent miles out of my 5.3, but I don’t expect to get 15,000 more miles out of it before a catastrophic failure. Good news is I’ll already have coyote when that happens and already have been picking up parts like boss cams etc.

•10.3/1 f150 coyote and 6r80 trans for $2500. My longblock with heads and trans work was north of $25k. That’s 10/1.
•gt350 or 2018+ gt intake manifold is $750 and less. My fr500c was $2500.
•heads and cams wise, a set of boss cams and hardware is $400 with shipping, tip, tax, toll, freight, and lunch.
•tuning wise, just go easy on it all. 800whp on pump gas with 8-9psi. On race gas, guys have hit 1200whp with 2018 f150 internals. on a soft tune of say 1000whp, it is still plenty great for the money spent and enough for north of 160 in the 1/4.

My point is yes, I know a mod setup can make excellent peak power and optimized, it can do very impressive things, but I’d rather put that money into things that generate a return. I’m 30 and my biggest regret is spending the money I made in my teens and 20’s like I’d be able to easily make that my whole life. Had I invested it then until now, I’d have monthly residual income to build a mod combo every year, or more importantly put huge down payments on rental homes every 5 years/pay em off.