VMP 67mm vs 69mm Throttle Body

Hi all,

I am a bit torn here and haven't found good information on this exact topic yet. I've got a 2010 GT500 with a Stiegemeier ported M122 with a 2.2" pulley, JLT 123 intake, BBK 65 MM throttle body, and VMP inlet elbow. I plan on adding the 13/14 56# injectors and VMP fuel pump boosters.

Basically, first: Will the 69mm fit the VMP inlet elbow in regards to the throttle bore and the throttle valves clearing the inlet bore.

Also, for my setup running 17/18 psi, which throttle body would be better? Assuming the 69mm fits, is bigger really better in this scenario? Both throttle bodies are the same price brand new. Seems like folks that have similar setups are seeing somewhere in the 15-20whp range by going from the 65mm sized TB to at least the VMP 67mm. Wondering if the 69mm might be even better.

Thanks!
-Adam

The 67mm is tried and true and I have yet to hear any negatives on the 69mm, but I'd go with the bigger one if it fits. I think you'll need to contact VMP to see whether there is adequate clearance or not. VMP only mentions the 69mm fits the Gen 2 on up, so I'm thinking it won't work. Most of the later versions got rid of the factory o-ring between the throttle body and the inlet and use a gasket. You may have to do likewise with your elbow to make it work.

You really see quotes of that much increase going from a twin 65 to a twin 67-69?

I’d say here bigger is better if it fits. PDB’s love as much air as they can get

PM-Performance said:

You really see quotes of that much increase going from a twin 65 to a twin 67-69?

I’d say here bigger is better if it fits. PDB’s love as much air as they can get

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Yeah, somewhere in that range. IronTerp posted this on a thread detailing step-by-step mods and dyno runs. The runs were on different dynos and probably different days, but the gains seem to be beyond just deviations, I could be wrong. Of course, I was stating the gains in the context of my setup as what I've got is very close to his setup (and maybe a tad bit better because of my fueling mods).

He saw essentially +10whp going from a ported (so not even stock) 60mm stock throttle body to a Ford Racing 65mm: 577 to 586.

Then he recorded an additional +17whp going from the 65 Ford Racing TB + other mods (while just changing the throttle body and no tune mods) to the VMP 67mm: 591 to 608.

"Definitely worth it to go the ported Eaton route.

- With a Posi port, ported stock TB, JLT 110, 2.40" upper, and 20 degrees of advance, my 07' hit 577/552 on Lee Blankenship's Dyno

- Upgraded the TB to a Ford Racing 65mm and hit 586/574. Same Dyno.

- Upgraded the JLT 110 to a JLT 123 and hit 595/582. Same Dyno.

- Re-tune with the same setup netted 591/579 on Johnny Lightning's Dyno. Upped the timing to 21 degrees for this session

- Added a VMP 67mm throttle body with no tuning adjustments and hit 608/581 on Keith's Pit Stop's dyno."

Do you interpret that differently?

-Adam

Catmonkey said:

The 67mm is tried and true and I have yet to hear any negatives on the 69mm, but I'd go with the bigger one if it fits. I think you'll need to contact VMP to see whether there is adequate clearance or not. VMP only mentions the 69mm fits the Gen 2 on up, so I'm thinking it won't work. Most of the later versions got rid of the factory o-ring between the throttle body and the inlet and use a gasket. You may have to do likewise with your elbow to make it work.

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Thanks for the reply and thats what I was thinking initially. I asked the sales guys at VMP if the 69mm would fit and honestly they wouldn't give me a definitive answer. They said that it 'SHOULD' fit and said that the VMP inlet elbow 'SHOULD' work. They didn't say yes outright, so I figured I might hop on here and see if anyone might have tried this already.

That’s perfect example of why I won’t use VMP. Their support seems mediocre and their parts often don’t stay on the market long. Assuming due to issues.
I can’t believe they don’t know for certain their own parts go together

I believe their high flow elbow changed over the years, and the ones I've seen were ported by hand, so they may be giving you the best answer they can. You might see what they would do for you if it doesn't fit, i.e. swap it out for the 67mm. You might want to make the clearance you need on the elbow if it's not much. I'm sure you could do that easily enough without bolting it to the elbow. A lot of guys are running the 67mm, myself included, don't see the extra 2mm worth the expense, but would have gone that way if buying new. The guys I've talked to that run it are happy with it, so they are able to successfully tune it.

Seems VMP's consensus on the big mono's is the actuator motor was too small to successfully articulate the bigger throttle plates in those larger throttle bodies.

I had a VMP twin 67 and loved it. But I highly doubt by just a TB swap the VMP 67 outperforms the FRPP65 Twin Blade by 10+HP. That being said Summit/Jegs has the FRPP65 TB which guys have used to make big power. As far as VMP....if you plan on ordering ...even if the TB never runs fuel they charge 20% restock fee if it's returned because it does not bolt on. That was my experience when I had a VMP BAP , in box as received when decided not to use it. I paid insured postage to ship it back + 20% surcharge. Summit/Jegs have better refund policies.

Jam421 said:

I had a VMP twin 67 and loved it. But I highly doubt by just a TB swap the VMP 67 outperforms the FRPP65 Twin Blade by 10+HP. That being said Summit/Jegs has the FRPP65 TB which guys have used to make big power. As far as VMP....if you plan on ordering ...even if the TB never runs fuel they charge 20% restock fee if it's returned because it does not bolt on. That was my experience when I had a VMP BAP , in box as received when decided not to use it. I paid insured postage to ship it back + 20% surcharge. Summit/Jegs have better refund policies.

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I have a hard time believing that as well. I often go back and first of my cj65 is holding me back or not. I just did a ported elbow but now have the TB thing in the back of my mind

CJ mono gets my vote.

Yeah, I'll tell you guys what, I am usually very conservative with HP gains as I think most people are. However, this is another example from BJ (VNMOUS1) where he describes going from a stock TB to a CJ65 and then to a VMP 67 with no other changes. Car was a 2007 GT500 but I'm not sure what the setup is.

"Power gains will depend on your total config, but on back to back testing on a 2007 GT500, a Cobra Jet 65mm picked up 15 rwhp over stock with NO other changes.

The VMP Twin Jet 67mm gave us an additional 11 rwhp for a total of 26 over stock.

The VMP Twin Jet 67mm throttle body /VMP CNC port matched inlet elbow combo is good for as much as 40 rwhp over stock! It works on ANY stock or VMP TVS blower."

-Adam

Going to call VMP tomorrow and see if I can get a good answer on the 69mm throttle body, but we'll see. Its important to note that the VMP inlet design on their TBs seems to be superior to the CJ65 so its about more than just the extra 2mm.

Looks like the flow characteristics and cfm flowed indicate that the 67mm should be compared more to the monoblade versus the CJ65 or CJ67 as it is closer in cfm to the monoblade. Apparently its within 50cfm of the monoblade. Interesting stuff.

VMP is coming out with brand new designs for there mono Blade throttle body 137mm and 163R I would ask them about those also.

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CaliGT500524 said:

Going to call VMP tomorrow and see if I can get a good answer on the 69mm throttle body, but we'll see. Its important to note that the VMP inlet design on their TBs seems to be superior to the CJ65 so its about more than just the extra 2mm.

Looks like the flow characteristics and cfm flowed indicate that the 67mm should be compared more to the monoblade versus the CJ65 or CJ67 as it is closer in cfm to the monoblade. Apparently its within 50cfm of the monoblade. Interesting stuff.

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Buy a 67 and call it a day. It is proven.

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I've had excellent service & results out of the FRPP mono-blade on both cars. What does your tuner recommend ??

Ok, so, I talked with VMP on the phone today and the 69mm throttle body will fit with their VMP high flow inlet elbow but not the stock elbow. Just putting that out there for others even if I may go with the 67mm. The 67 will support close to 800whp and the 69 is really meant for those that don’t want to run a monoblade.

1 Alibi 2 said:

I've had excellent service & results out of the FRPP mono-blade on both cars. What does your tuner recommend ??

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Yeah, I hear ya! Unfortunately, I don’t live near my old tuner anymore so I haven’t been able to visit but I also haven’t called to ask. The general consensus seems to be that monoblades are slightly harder to tune but when done right are great, otherwise run the VMP or similar 67mm throttle bodies. One of the reps at VMP has a 5.0 making a reliable 1088whp on a 67mm throttle body.

informative

CaliGT500524 said:

Yeah, I hear ya! Unfortunately, I don’t live near my old tuner anymore so I haven’t been able to visit but I also haven’t called to ask. The general consensus seems to be that monoblades are slightly harder to tune but when done right are great, otherwise run the VMP or similar 67mm throttle bodies. One of the reps at VMP has a 5.0 making a reliable 1088whp on a 67mm throttle body.

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Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t make 1150 with a monoblade.

CD07GT500 said:

Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t make 1150 with a monoblade.

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Yeah...that is also correct. My point is that the VMP67MM is within a very close margin in cfm potential to the larger monoblades, which is impressive. A rep at VMP made 1088whp with a 67mm but explained that in the context of my application the 69mm is meant to be for guys who dont want to run a monoblade but want the same flow characteristics. The monoblade has its advantage and he even admitted that the twin could be a restriction as his power level. For me, I'm not making 1000 wheel, so the point is moot for me.