EPA to Start Aggressively Enforcing Emission Defeat Devices

Deceptive

Muffin is my spirit animal
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When someone says a batshit crazy stupid as all hell idea is easy to defeat that's not saying it can't be done.
you're WAY too snooty for someone so slow on the pickup. I said that 150 posts ago, mister hawking, and have only clarified since.

https://www.svtperformance.com/thre...n-defeat-devices.1182510/page-2#post-16350853



not like the doomsday prophecy you guys have managed to dream up.



they will when they get sued into oblivion, when the auto industry takes a massive hit, and people start screaming.

this is orwellian guilty until proven innocent stuff a thousand times worse than red light cameras and forcing people to buy health insurance.

this is boring. enjoy your weirdo doomsday prepper statist circle jerk.

I am going to have to ask my wife how thick ostrich skulls are because yours is super thick.

IMG_3487.JPG


And here I thought you had some redeeming or salvageable quality. I forgot you you are Tony “The Ostrich” Stark-Walker Souper Injuneer.


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Need 04 Wine

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So am I getting this right.

To enforce the EPA devices, we will be forced to only change oil at a dealer or our vehicles will shut off.....


Is that where the thread is right now?


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Deceptive

Muffin is my spirit animal
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So am I getting this right.

To enforce the EPA devices, we will be forced to only change oil at a dealer or our vehicles will shut off.....


Is that where the thread is right now?


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

Canucks would not be involved since you don’t have the EPA. What do you have? The MSPS (Maple Syrup Preservation Society)?


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Need 04 Wine

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Canucks would not be involved since you don’t have the EPA. What do you have? The MSPS (Maple Syrup Preservation Society)?


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

They refer to it as the maple syrup mafia.

We dont have EPA....but whatever happens to you....has about a 98% chance of affecting us.


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Deceptive

Muffin is my spirit animal
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They refer to it as the maple syrup mafia.

We dont have EPA....but whatever happens to you....has about a 98% chance of affecting us.


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MKPS-Mouse Knuckle Preservation Society?

I hate thinking that something like this could or would happen but I see the EPA getting more strict. And contrary to some people’s beliefs the pushback will be a drop in the bucket. The majority of motorists will not care. Want proof? Enough people have bought into the electronic nanny for cars that more insurance companies are making their own plug ins that monitor your driving.


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Weather Man

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MKPS-Mouse Knuckle Preservation Society?

I hate thinking that something like this could or would happen but I see the EPA getting more strict. And contrary to some people’s beliefs the pushback will be a drop in the bucket. The majority of motorists will not care. Want proof? Enough people have bought into the electronic nanny for cars that more insurance companies are making their own plug ins that monitor your driving.


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You can just see mandatory monitoring for full coverage best rates coming down the pike.
 

Makobra

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You can just see mandatory monitoring for full coverage best rates coming down the pike.

if red light cameras can't gain any traction and have been ruled unconstitutional how do you guys figure any of this 4th amendment violating tyrannical Orwellian police state bullshit fairy tale nonsense will fair any better?
 

Need 04 Wine

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if red light cameras can't gain any traction and have been ruled unconstitutional how do you guys figure any of this 4th amendment violating tyrannical Orwellian police state bullshit fairy tale nonsense will fair any better?

Technically thats a loop hole they could use.

You want best rate-we monitor and you let us.

You want almost the best rate- old school.

So i can see that happening with not enough resistance to stop it.




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Need 04 Wine

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MKPS-Mouse Knuckle Preservation Society?

I hate thinking that something like this could or would happen but I see the EPA getting more strict. And contrary to some people’s beliefs the pushback will be a drop in the bucket. The majority of motorists will not care. Want proof? Enough people have bought into the electronic nanny for cars that more insurance companies are making their own plug ins that monitor your driving.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

That’s something I believe we can all support.

I agree it will only get worse.

Onstar reports to me are just another method dealer could void warranty IMO.


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Makobra

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Technically thats a loop hole they could use.

You want best rate-we monitor and you let us.

You want almost the best rate- old school.

So i can see that happening with not enough resistance to stop it.

that's called an incentive not a mandate. its the con insurance companies already use to screw people out of more money because nobody can drive "safe" enough.
 

ViperRed91GT

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Again reference several earlier posts. Software can be easily be created with "expiration" dates. Block the signal, fine....at some point you'll need to connect. Highly doubt they'd shut you down, but they could easily limit you to 45.

Mandating pretty much anything is a simple legislative session away. That's an unfortunate reality. Just like all aircraft (there are some very limited exceptions) must utilize transponders. This would be no different.

Most aircraft never need a transponder actually...
 

Deceptive

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if red light cameras can't gain any traction and have been ruled unconstitutional how do you guys figure any of this 4th amendment violating tyrannical Orwellian police state bullshit fairy tale nonsense will fair any better?

You act like the industry is this big war machine that will just fight back and beat down the EPA. Yet the entire industry has had to make cars specifically complaint to a single ****ing state.

So I laugh at you and your BS Texas chest pounding in CARB Compliance. I bet you believe your state will never turn blue because Mah Texas.

IMG_3488.JPG



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SecondhandSnake

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none of which are TIMEBOMBS THAT RENDER THE ENTIRE VEHICLE USELESS UNLESS THEY GET A SIGNAL FROM SPACE.

that's the feature you guys are arguing is not only plausible to be actually implemented but is inevitable.

i'm honestly astonished that you guys think any car company would do that.

I like that by hyperbole you actually made it sound more plausible.

SELF DESTRUCTING FROM SPACE sounds pretty metal, but it's exactly what features like OnStar and other remote kill switches used by dealers do for years. So it's completely and totally plausible.

what you guys aren't seeing are the numerous problems with not only implementing but actually dealing with the end result of your hari kari car fantasy project.

you're dreaming which can be fun sometimes but when you guys come yup with this doomsday bullshit AND its coupled with the defeatist "what's the use we're all gonna get hosed by govt anyhow" mentality that's just a recipe for disaster.

do you guys just enjoy coming up with things to whine about? i mean cause if you do then I'm perfectly happy to stop trying to explain why what you are dreaming up is virtually impossible to get out the door and sustain.

Except that not one of you has been able to tell the class how the guy who's car has shut down and won't run because it hit your kill date is going to get from the wilderness to civilization for it's dealer reset.

this isn't about a technical feature you guys say is possible but is in no way realistic it is about your insistance that the gubbermint can't be resisted.

here's the recap:

1. you guys were crying about gubbermint making stuff bad
2. you immediately gave up because gubbermints can't be thwarted
3. i casually explained how the EPA can't force these massive infrastructure job killing ideas without resistance at every level.
4. some of you argued that gubbermint can't be thwarted so they'll make the cars have wireless connections to ensure conformity
5. i point out how this is easily thwarted with tin foil by preventing connection
6. you argue some more about how gubbermint can just force a dead man's switch to be hard coded into the car's software that activates if it doesn't get an update
7. i point out how that is a fantasy big huge corporations would spend millions or billions fighting because they know the economic rammifications of this job killing new car industry crucifying horrible feature created as a result of your assistance that the gubbermint can't be thwarted.
8. you say i'm dumb because now that you've got the perfect totalitarian solution in mind that requires cooperation on every level that it can actually survive in the wild
9. i call you on your bike shedder dunning-kruger soaked bullshit.
10. you say i'm dumb.

great. good talk.

I'm not even going to touch on a lot of those statements and refrain from a lot of criticism and name calling.

Now you seem to be fixated on "OMG IT'S GONNA EXPLODE IF I DONT CONNECT TO THE INTERNET REMOTE KILLSWITCH, but I'm gonna cover it in tin foil and they'll never get me!"

In reality here's how it will go:

EPA says real time emissions system monitoring is mandatory. Any vehicle that does not get any emissions critical patches or is noncompliant must be disabled or fixed within X amount of time.

Manufacturers implement this feature because, well, they need to actually sell cars to work.

Written in your owner's manual:
Periodic updates to software are necessary. No reflashing or dealer visits are required. All of this can be done through an internet connection while driving. If you do not have a connection at your home or driving route, you can find a list of supported locations on dealerwebsite. If updates are not made within X time period features and functions may be progressively limited until the update is received.

Degradation would be similar to what they already do for emissions critical faults. As your timer ticks down first you get a soft warning at start. Then a fault code. Then you lose the luxury features like CarPlay. Then acceleration is reduced, then power, flashing red lamps, vehicle speed is reduced, finally the vehicle will not start on your next key cycle and your DMV/DOT will be notified of your non-compliance, your registration will be flagged.

And all of this is unlikely to be fought. 98% of the population won't see an issue, especially with population moving to urban centers and the prevalence of internet service. People are used to the DRM and licensing of software on every device they own, even appliances. The bottom line is there's only a handful of people that would be impacted or complain, not enough to justify changing it.

I'm not advocating for it. I'm just in the industry and see the writing on the wall. I'm just a realist and planning accordingly, rather than ignoring it as an impossibility.
 

Makobra

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I like that by hyperbole you actually made it sound more plausible.

SELF DESTRUCTING FROM SPACE sounds pretty metal, but it's exactly what features like OnStar and other remote kill switches used by dealers do for years. So it's completely and totally plausible.

well first of all I've only been arguing against what is realistic. nuke from orbit is plausible but not realistic.
second, requiring a command to shut down a car is not the same thing as requiring a command to allow the car to continue running.

1. onstar works like this:
vehicle receives command to shut off. vehicle shuts off.

2. the proposed orwellian police state fantasy works like this:
vehicle is going to shut off UNLESS it receives command to not shut off.

now, don't cheap out and pretend like I'm ignoring the rest of your post like other people like to do.
this is a matter of first importance because your argument is built on the idea that this exists in the wild today.

it doesn't. now, question for ya, do you think thing 1 and thing 2 are the same things?
 

HillbillyHotRod

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Do not think it will get a command to shut off. but have it written in the code that would likely start a sequence that unless you fix it, it will eventually stop working.
 

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