Torque for ARP balancer bolt?

I’ve got a ARP balancer bolt on the way from lethal. I was going to use it to install the new 10% lower, but I’m leaving the 15% that’s on it with a stock bolt that the previous owner had a shop install and I don’t know if they used a new bolt or followed Fords torque sequence so I’m Just going to replace it for peace of mind.

I tried searching and can’t find any info on the correct torque, only for the factory torque to yield bolt. Does anyone know what the ARP gets torqued too? Also should I bother with red or blue loctite?

Redneckbmxer24 said:

I’ve got a ARP balancer bolt on the way from lethal. I was going to use it to install the new 10% lower, but I’m leaving the 15% that’s on it with a stock bolt that the previous owner had a shop install and I don’t know if they used a new bolt or followed Fords torque sequence so I’m Just going to replace it for peace of mind.

I tried searching and can’t find any info on the correct torque, only for the factory torque to yield bolt. Does anyone know what the ARP gets torqued too? Also should I bother with red or blue loctite?

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I can't find the ARP either, but here is the Ford....I found a forum thread where someone mentioned they cranked it down to 125ft.lbs., but it sounded like that was only a guess...

Here's what the Ford Shop Manual says for the 2008 5.4 DOHC......



Closer pix of the tightening sequence....



R

I would not use torque to yield specs. Torque to yield are intended to stretch and ARP's bolts are much higher yield strength. ARP doesn't make a balancer bolt specifically for the GT500, but it does make balancer bolts for the Coyote and the 4.6 modular, as well as the truck engine. These bolts are the same thread diameter and pitch. Their spec is 100 lb. ft. for those other applications. Their spec assumes a lubricated thread.

Catmonkey said:

I would not use torque to yield specs. Torque to yield are intended to stretch and ARP's bolts are much higher yield strength. ARP doesn't make a balancer bolt specifically for the GT500, but it does make balancer bolts for the Coyote and the 4.6 modular, as well as the truck engine. These bolts are the same thread diameter and pitch. Their spec is 100 lb. ft. for those other applications. Their spec assumes a lubricated thread.

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^^^That makes sense.

BTW Cat - Over this past weekend I bought a MGW Gripper (Spherical) with the stainless Cobra topper you showed in the shifter knob discussion.....I just happened to stumble across it for sale. I am waiting for it to arrive to verify condition.....

R

Ok so since the answers seemed to be all over the place and I had some more questions I called ATI and spoke to them who also referred me to Tim at MPR race engines, and I spoke to ARP today as well.

My question for ATI was if they had a recommendation on torque with an ARP bolt and also regarding the use of a washer aswell as loctite. They had no data on torque other than the factory Ford bolt (they referred me to Tim at MPR for that) but they said absolutely DO NOT use the little washer that the ARP/Lethal bolt is supplied with, and agreed with something I had read about the strength of the factory washer not being appropriate for the ARP bolt either. They recommended red loctite.

So I spoke to Tim at MPR. He was very knowledgable and has used this bolt many many times on these motors. He said 100ft lbs for the torque. He also said use a ARP AUW195 washer which is their internal number for the ARP 200-8540 washer. He said absolutely DO NOT use the factory washer for this application or the small one. He said he does not use loctite but didn't say not to.

So when I couldn't find the washer in stock anywhere to order I called ARP back this morning to see if it was available and if I could order direct. It was in stock and they let me order from them. I asked a few other questions too. I told the guy the application and the bolt that lethal sells (comes in a pack of 5) and he looked it up and told me the max torque on that bolt is 112 ft lbs using their assembly lube. A lubed bolt is a lubed bolt for the purpose of torque though. He recommended using their ultra torque lube between the bolt head and washer but leave the washer to balancer side dry. He said lube or loctite on the threads was fine.

ARP recommended blue over red just for ease of removal but I don't think blue is going to hold up well enough to the heat to do anything.

So I've got the bolt sitting here, a 200-8540 washer ordered along with a 1.69oz tube of the ARP ultra torque lube. I'm going to clean and degrease the threads on the bolt and in the crank shaft as well as the surface of the balancer, I'm going to apply red loctite on the threads, ARP lube between the bolt and washer and torque it to 105 ftlbs.

Adding this to the discussion.....Me personally, I wouldn't even screw around (no pun intended) with a bolt when I do my 10% lower install. The stud/nut crank saver shown below is the way I will go and it is specifically designed for the GT500 crankshaft application......




^^^In the picture above on the right, look how much better the GT500 crankshaft snout is supported the full length from the end to the threads...

R

Robert M said:

Adding this to the discussion.....Me personally, I wouldn't even screw around (no pun intended) with a bolt when I do my 10% lower install. The stud/nut crank saver shown below is the way I will go and it is specifically designed for the GT500 crankshaft application......

View attachment 1656017
View attachment 1656018

^^^In the picture above on the right, look how much better the GT500 crankshaft snout is supported the full length from the end to the threads...

R

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Where do you buy that? Nobody lists it.

Redneckbmxer24 said:

Where do you buy that? Nobody lists it.

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It was a couple of years ago, maybe longer on here there was a "Group buy" and I am pretty sure it was Kinetic or Kinetik Motorsports?

I just tried to find them in Google and do not see them, I may have the name wrong......

R

Kinetik Motorsport

They still sale/stock them. They are out on occasion.

Here they are.....

GT500 Crank Saver Stud Kit - KINETIK MOTORSPORT

R

.......and here is the GT500 Crank Saver Installation instructions......and YES, a torque spec. specific to this install!!!



Do NOT use the Crank Saver to install crankshaft pulley. Use the installation tools designated by the manufacturer.



Preparation: (if using in new crankshaft, proceed to installation section)

Remove crankshaft bolt and washer. Removal of the pulley is not required.

Clean inside of crankshaft snout to the best of your ability using WD-40, aerosol brake cleaner, and a bristled brush. (e.g. pipe cleaner or toothbrush)

Any material left inside the snout may prevent stud from fully seating.

Running a thread chaser (M12x1.5) is not required, but highly recommended. An alternative is to remove washer from stock bolt, then fully thread the bolt into crankshaft to clear the lower portion of threads.

Clean and remove any residue from the surface of your crankshaft pulley where the washer will rest.



Installation:

Apply a small amount of ARP Ultra-Torque lube to bottom portion of the Crank Saver stud (short side), and thread stud into the crankshaft by hand.

Ensure the stud is fully seated using the 4mm Allen, but do not torque. If fully seated, the top portion of threads will begin just below the face of the crankshaft snout. If you meet resistance before the stud reaches that point, DO NOT try to force. The most common reason for this is residual thread locker and/or dirt in the lower portion of threads, where the current bolts do not reach. Remove the stud and return to preparation section.

Liberally apply ARP Ultra-Torque lube onto the flange and threads of the nut and top side (nut side) of the washer. Install washer, then thread nut onto stud by hand.

Torque using a 12-point 16mm socket. Recommended torque: 140-150 lb-ft

Tip: Place transmission in gear and firmly apply parking brake to prevent engine spinning while torquing.

.......and this tap set is cheap, but for me the only "planned use" would be to fully clean the crankshaft threads all the way to the bottom of the hole, prior to the Crank Saver stud install as recommended in the Saver instructions.....

m12 X 1.5 Carbon Steel Tap Set

^^^As long as they are long enough to do the job?

R

It was a pretty easy install on my built short block, but I have seen a few guys with very early cars saying that had to turn down the diameter of the unthreaded portion of the stud to get it to seat, so know that going in. I don't know if the crank snout was improperly machined or machined differently or just what the issue was that required them to have to do that.

Because the threads are pretty deep, I made a thread chaser out of the factory bolt, buy using a small cutting disc (dremel) lengthwise across the threads on 3 sides. It worked well for me. The high torque value is due to the fine threaded end of the stud. Ford recommends a dab of silicone on the keyway groove inside the balancer hub against the washer to prevent an oil leak.

Robert M said:

.......and this tap set is cheap, but for me the only "planned use" would be to fully clean the crankshaft threads all the way to the bottom of the hole, prior to the Crank Saver stud install.....

m12 X 1.5 Carbon Steel Tap Set

^^^As long as they are long enough to do the job?

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Those are way too short. See my tip above.

Catmonkey said:

Those are way too short. See my tip above.

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That was my concern. I see longer ones, but the price jumps way up quickly because they seem to be more specialized....

R

****. After I just blew $70 on a bolt and washer after shipping. LOL

Cat - Using the Dremel and cutting the three slots was for the debris in the hole to clear while threading the bolt in? and them use compressed air to blow it out?

R

Redneckbmxer24 said:

****. After I just blew $70 on a bolt and washer after shipping. LOL

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I was going to link "The Market" GT500 Classifieds - Engine Parts, but no, I will leave that alone.....LOL!!!

R

I figure at least 3", but it's been a while since I messed with it. My "slotted" bolt trick just uses a bolt you'd otherwise throw away.

Robert M said:

Cat - Using the Dremel and cutting the three slots was for the debris in the hole to clear while threading the bolt in? and them use compressed air to blow it out?

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Yep. A couple shots of a penetrating oil wouldn't hurt before doing that. This trick pretty works on anything. A thread chaser is not as sharp as a regular tap, but probably a little tighter than a slotted bolt.

If you did have a super snug fit on the smooth portion of the stud, I don't know if I wouldn't try a flex hone tool of the appropriate size first. I would just make sure not to push it into the threaded end of the hole.

Robert M said:

I was going to link "The Market" GT500 Classifieds - Engine Parts, but no, I will leave that alone.....LOL!!!

R

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Funny because I already have a IW 10% lower on there that I bought and I’m not going to use now because I didn’t want to bother pulling it. Now the 15% lower I have on the car isn’t going to work because it’s probably going to make 21psi which is too much for pump gas and if I go bigger on the blower pulley it may not clear the hood per Whipple. So now it looks like I need to buy a 5% lower lol.