2014 GT 500 Catastrophic Engine Failure: Next Steps? Thoughts?

Streetpwr281 · Sep 3, 2020

Mulholland Man said:
Hi Everyone, update: I took my car to Eddie Rios @ Addiction Motorsports (New Tuner). Eddie noted at first that all the water was still in the cooling reservoirs and thought the block was ok. Jack up the car and....uh oh, block has big crack in the bottom. There was oil splattered along the cats and H pipe. We pulled out the plugs and noted that they were a mess. One of the rods broke (piston was not moving during when we cranked the car) and there was a nasty sound coming from the crank caused by the road damaging the crank on its travels back down to earth under force. Eddie advised that when you have this level of damage its fairly safe to assume that there is damage to the heads as well. He advised that I was most likely looking at the worst case scenario: New Short block w/ new upgraded internals, new Crank, and rebuilt heads. He estimated "off the cuff" 18k for the build but said he would give me a written estimate (which I will post here when I receive it). Had to pay $250 buck to tow it back and forth this day to the shop as he is 25 miles away from me and I don't have "Premium" AAA membership. Keep in mind that if you need to upgrade to premium they make you wait a week for tow- Live and learn again.

Diagnosis: Eddie agreed with Bimini LX's comments. He took one look at my engine and kinda cringed when he saw my 2.4" pulley. He said that on 91 pump you are playing with fire. He advises his clients to either ADD TORCO to the mix or swap to E85 before running a smaller pulley. He also added that running 17 PSI of boost and having such an aggressive tune (Again on 91 Pump) was a grand mistake. To make matters worse he noted that my other Tuner had put the WRONG spark plugs in. He had put in some very cheap plugs with the WRONG HEAT RATING ( they were 7's instead of 6's), virtually assuring that I would have knock and the potential for catastrophic damage. My prior tuner was Ray McClelland at Full Throttle Kustomz in Filmore, CA.

I will be going to Eddie Rios @ Addiction Motorsports (Simi Valley) from now on.

My plan is to rebuild my engine no matter the cost. I love my car too much to sell her on the cheap as a build project. I will be rebuilding it. I am curious about the posts above pertaining to a Coyote Swap or 5.4. I inquired about this with tuner (really quickly) and he shook his head noting ECU compatability/ cost of conversion issues? would love to hear back from you guys on this. I am open minded about going with a 5.4 or Coyote. Shit, I'd even consider an LS Swap (haha- I have now alienated about half of you at least, JK). Hope you guys are all doing well. I'm deeply depressed. Going to take me a couple years to save the money to build unless I get a better solution. I will do what it takes though.

I think including new heads in a fresh 5.8L engine build you will easily be $25k+ with a shop doing all the tuning/labor. L&M’s built 5.8L long block goes for $35k online w all the goodies. Just budget accordingly and scrutinize that quote for completeness.

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Catmonkey · Sep 3, 2020

There's no real compatibility issues between the 5.8 and 5.4. Hell, I went the other way and there were a few tuning issues, but likely more related to larger cams. The Coyote on the other hand really is a lot different. It has variable cam timing, where the GT500 does not. I'm sure it could be made to work, but it's not going to be plug and play. It would likely be better to retrofit a coyote PCM with the coyote engine. I think any departure from 5.8, or rather an aluminum block, and it's going to impact resale value. Good luck on your quest. Hopefully the heads survived.

Mulholland Man · Sep 3, 2020

Wanted to update you all with photos of the plugs that were pulled from the car. They were NGK R 6's. These are advertised as good plugs for "Stock Boost". These are non irridium plugs that cost 24 bucks on AM. As I understand it, the irridium tipped plugs w higher heat rating are recomended and esp. for higher boosted/ modded cars. If you look at the attached photos you can see pretty significant Carbon build up on the plugs. Keep in mind these plugs only had 500-1,000 Miles on them if that. In response to prior poster who commented that I shouldn't pin ALL responsibility on tuner, he's right. I'm not gonna sit here and say I didn't see signs of it. Still pisses me off. I'm not a mechanic or tuner. Guys like me who have limited knowledge about these things have to put our faith (and our very expensive engines) in the care and knowledge of those who do. I expected a lot more from my prior tuner. I brought my car into him telling him how it was struggling and how it was burning smoke out the back end. He just told me it was probably just blow by and to put JLT separators on and drive it for a bit and bring it back for tuning adjustments. He didn't even check the plugs or turn the car on to analyze the situation at all. Just sent me on my way. I made an appointment for him to Help me and I drove 60 miles and lost half of my work day so that he could turn me around and say buy an oil separator? WTF? Then my car car goes boom. Yeah, I should NOT have driven it hard knowing it was running rough. I take responsibilty for that stupidity, but I still feel like I have a right be pissed about the shoddy work he did too.

Anyway, plug photos are attached if anyone is interested.

Tezz500 · Sep 3, 2020

Mulholland Man said:
Wanted to update you all with photos of the plugs that were pulled from the car. They were NGK R 6's. These are advertised as good plugs for "Stock Boost". These are non irridium plugs that cost 24 bucks on AM. As I understand it, the irridium tipped plugs w higher heat rating are recomended and esp. for higher boosted/ modded cars. If you look at the attached photos you can see pretty significant Carbon build up on the plugs. Keep in mind these plugs only had 500-1,000 Miles on them if that. In response to prior poster who commented that I shouldn't pin ALL responsibility on tuner, he's right. I'm not gonna sit here and say I didn't see signs of it. Still pisses me off. I'm not a mechanic or tuner. Guys like me who have limited knowledge about these things have to put our faith (and our very expensive engines) in the care and knowledge of those who do. I expected a lot more from my prior tuner. I brought my car into him telling him how it was struggling and how it was burning smoke out the back end. He just told me it was probably just blow by and to put JLT separators on and drive it for a bit and bring it back for tuning adjustments. He didn't even check the plugs or turn the car on to analyze the situation at all. Just sent me on my way. I made an appointment for him to Help me and I drove 60 miles and lost half of my work day so that he could turn me around and say buy an oil separator? WTF? Then my car car goes boom. Yeah, I should NOT have driven it hard knowing it was running rough. I take responsibilty for that stupidity, but I still feel like I have a right be pissed about the shoddy work he did too.

Anyway, plug photos are attached if anyone is interested.

So, Lesson learned... expensive lesson but lesson learned.

One thing I’ve realized in this hobby...

Great work ain’t Cheap, and
Cheap work ain’t Great.

You want someone. That’s reasonable but I mean listen, I drive 6hours round trip for my tuner. He keeps the car for a week and calls me when it’s done. He doesn’t half ass it.

Hopefully this new shop you have is going to be a better fit for you.

Sadly this lesson was very very expensive.

fearthesnake · Sep 3, 2020

Mulholland Man said:
Wanted to update you all with photos of the plugs that were pulled from the car. They were NGK R 6's. These are advertised as good plugs for "Stock Boost". These are non irridium plugs that cost 24 bucks on AM. As I understand it, the irridium tipped plugs w higher heat rating are recomended and esp. for higher boosted/ modded cars. If you look at the attached photos you can see pretty significant Carbon build up on the plugs. Keep in mind these plugs only had 500-1,000 Miles on them if that. In response to prior poster who commented that I shouldn't pin ALL responsibility on tuner, he's right. I'm not gonna sit here and say I didn't see signs of it. Still pisses me off. I'm not a mechanic or tuner. Guys like me who have limited knowledge about these things have to put our faith (and our very expensive engines) in the care and knowledge of those who do. I expected a lot more from my prior tuner. I brought my car into him telling him how it was struggling and how it was burning smoke out the back end. He just told me it was probably just blow by and to put JLT separators on and drive it for a bit and bring it back for tuning adjustments. He didn't even check the plugs or turn the car on to analyze the situation at all. Just sent me on my way. I made an appointment for him to Help me and I drove 60 miles and lost half of my work day so that he could turn me around and say buy an oil separator? WTF? Then my car car goes boom. Yeah, I should NOT have driven it hard knowing it was running rough. I take responsibilty for that stupidity, but I still feel like I have a right be pissed about the shoddy work he did too.

Anyway, plug photos are attached if anyone is interested.

Wow. 500 mile plugs? Looks like motor was definitely hurt and thats not normal blow by.

I dont have anything to tell you to make you feel better other than I know it sucks man and I feel for you.

Just take your time and figure out whats best for you and go from there.

Good luck and keep us posted.

me32 · Sep 3, 2020

Tezz500 said:
So, Lesson learned... expensive lesson but lesson learned.

One thing I’ve realized in this hobby...

Great work ain’t Cheap, and
Cheap work ain’t Great.

You want someone. That’s reasonable but I mean listen, I drive 6hours round trip for my tuner. He keeps the car for a week and calls me when it’s done. He doesn’t half ass it.

Hopefully this new shop you have is going to be a better fit for you.

Sadly this lesson was very very expensive.

Agree with all this.

Tezz500 · Sep 4, 2020

Also, it wouldn’t be a horrible idea to have a black list of Shops that have totally screwed shit up for folks so we have a “hey, don’t go there, they’ll grenade your engine...” kinda warning.

I’d recommend we make a sticky but it would also need verifying. You can’t have people bitching because THEY put 87 in the tank, swapped their 2.8 to a 2.4 and shot a piston through the block...

Catmonkey · Sep 4, 2020

The good thing about those plugs is there are no smashed ground straps or broken electrodes. The heads might be okay.

Beercules · Sep 9, 2020

Corbic said:
LS Swap it.

Kaase Boss 9.

SilverGTvert · Oct 6, 2020

I’m curious if you got the car repaired. What was all damaged once the motor was apart?

Jam421 · Oct 6, 2020

So sad....sorry Bud. From what I learned here on the forum is at your boost level TR7 heat range plugs gapped at .028. I have a very similar set up but it's on 93 octane. But not sure that would necessarily be the cause or if you might just be down on HP as compared to hotter plug. Just terrible....good luck and come back stronger

->).

Mulholland Man · Oct 6, 2020

Thank you guys for your comments and continued interest in the saga. I have been completely without a car now for a couple months since it happened. I decided NOT TO SELL the car but wait, save and rebuild. I am planning on having L&M build a new small block for me (sleeved). Price tag on that is around 17.5k (Fiorged Diamond Pistons, Manley I beam Forged rods, Forged Steel CobraJet Crank, ARP Studs, etc.-- you know the package- its on their website for those that don't). Rated at 1500 HP capable. I don't plan to run it past 850 WHP in the future but I figure if I'm going to reubild it I might as well build it proper. Hoping that I will only have to clean up the heads but may need to replace them depending upon condition. Looking to find a shop in LA/Ventura/OC that can take a take off the heads and give me an opinion on their viability and to PRICE THE BUILD overall. If ANY of you have any solid shops here in So Cal that know this engine and are straight shooters, I would be most appreciative. Anyway, from what I'm told the cost of head rebuild could be anywhere from 2500 to 6500 depending if heads are ok. Also looking to replace stock TVS blower with Kenne Belle. Would like to run lower boost levels to move same amount air, and put less stress & heat on engine and give myself more room to grow in the future. KB Blowers are pretty much the only non centrifigal blowers that CA Carb approved, and they look pretty righteous. Cost of new Blower, Elbow, TB, CAI & Air Filter (Entire System) is around 5.5 to 6.5k depnending upon size. So anyway. Looking at a 30k + build and I don't have it right now to spend. I figure it should take me around 2-3 years to save up for and plan this build. Still need a Daily though and don't want to spend more than 300 to 350 mo. on it (so that I can save up to the build). Was originally thinking I'd just get a Cheap truck or car to slop around in bu the THING IS, once you have driven a shelby for several years, its so damned hard to contemplate driving around in some junker for a period of years, LOL. That's the hardest part, not being able to enjoy the car on a daily basis. For those who own these cars, you know, its just Freedom and bliss. When Things get stressful or tough, I just jump in that car and let her eat. Not being able to do that anymore could lead a man to drink! LOL. Yup. Hardest part is just waxing and detailing her in the driveway each weekend while my neighbors watch me, scractching their heads like I have full only lost it!! Like some guy who refuses to burry his dead cat but just keeps petting and talking to it, LOL. Anyway, to all of you on the road, enjoy it and take great care of your rides. I'll see you back on the road soon enough.

efnfast · Oct 6, 2020

so much for staying stock I see, lol

Sounds like you're also going to have to budget $$$ for fuel and clutch and supporting non-engine components as well?

SilverGTvert · Oct 6, 2020

These cars are extremely expensive to repair! I can’t imagine staring down the barrel of a $30K+ bill.

Mulholland Man · Oct 6, 2020

Already have a McCleod 1000HP Clutch. I'm on the fence about fuel system given CARB issues. Will size SC and limit boost to keep stock Fuel System until I can find a "GUY" to smog my car properly. LOL. That said, there will likely be other "misc" items that will come into play. I would say I intend to build it to make 700-750 HP just right off the bat. Will consider HP gains above that Baseline later. I can do those #s without replacing fuel system/ injectors I believe. Feel free to comment if anyone has any observations.

Mulholland Man · Oct 6, 2020

SilverGTvert said:
These cars are extremely expensive to repair! I can’t imagine staring down the barrel of a $30K+ bill.

$$$$ to repair and $$$$ to mod/improve. most of this bill is to bullet proof the engine and build it to handle more power than I will ever throw at it. Only 5-6k of that L&M Block is for the new replacement block itself, the rest is what you would already be doing if you were going to build the bottom end and swap out stock parts with heavy duty forged parts. That is the only way I justify spending this amount, is that, even if I were to buy another GT500 for 40-45k I would still end up spending around the same amount to build the engine. Given that I've already spent the better part of 10k on the suspension (Griggs SS ssystem with Torque Arm Welded to car) and another 10k on ther crap (pulley, JLT CAI, TB, Elbow, Short Shifter, exhaust, Clutch, Clear Bra, New Stripes, etc.), and I'm already into this 80k.....what's another 30K? Well....my marriage if I'm not careful, LOL. Gotta get back to work to make sum cheddah so I can resurrect her.

biminiLX · Oct 7, 2020

I’m very unfamiliar with California options.
Can you find pump ethanol E85? Can you add octane booster?
How many miles do you plan on driving per year?
Just asking because $30k seems a bit much, especially if your goal is just 800-850rwhp.
Sleeving the block for example isn’t necessary at that level.
KB is a nice option, try the 3.2LC that fits under the stock hood.
-J

Mulholland Man · Oct 7, 2020

Bimini, even if I went with JDM components I'd be at 12.5k for the block (non sleeved). Its only 3k for the sleeving and that's cheap insurance if you ask me.
If I just went completely stock block with no built internals- like for like- its 10k new more or less- rip off. After what happened to me, I simply can't afford to have it happen again. The sleeves and I beam rods are a must for me.

I drive the car about 8.5 to 10k per year as its my daily. Nearest E85 is 7 miles from here so its a possibility and I'm considering it. ALso considering 91 Octane Tune with 1/4 bottle Boostane Professional per tank for knock insurance. Smog/CARB is the big issue here. That said, If I have KB Blower and CAI its got Carb EO# and therefore I would only have to change tune when going in for smog (unless KB has a CA legal tune - Supersnake Tune?) Below is my placeholder estimate. I have not yet received a formal estimate from a builder here locally in CA. I am guessing on shipping costs but the other costs should be more or less accurrate. THink I may have overstated the cost to reinstall engine. Let me know if I'm Missing anything. FYI, I already have a KB Dual Boostapump. Figure I'm missing a few things, esp. If I convert to E85.

Streetpwr281 · Oct 7, 2020

I agree at this point “**** it” go all out!! CNC the heads and add some moderate cams while your at it. If you spend $30k what is $40k at that point? Big KB, best shortblock, fully CNC’d cylinder heads, custom streetable cams, etc. You already have a top notch Griggs suspensión. If your going without the Shelby for 3yrs it better be bad ass once it’s done!! This should make 800rwhp on pump 91 tune and well over 1000rwhp on E85. Get an Nguage and just switch between tunes when needed for commuting or racing.

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Steve@TF · Oct 7, 2020

Couldnt you toss a 5.4 with KB in there and achieve the same power for a fraction of the cost?

I wouldnt go E85 in this area. Thats a long way to rely on a getting to the gas station (7 miles). With a car that gets poor mpg lol. We had fun with that with an NGV civic that got 40mpg. Had a few oh shit moments with gas stations lol.

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