Full Chase with Pit

Steve@TF

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That cop car flew through a telephone pole like it was a toothpick!

Tough call. Glad it worked out. I know they dont want a tumbling vehicle at those speeds but perhaps the trooper knew there was a big open spot coming and now was his chance. That guy has balls and i pray he fully recovers.

No disrepect meant but whats worse, an officer losing his life in the line of duty or a mini van full of kids? A guy my wife grew up with just lost his 22 year old son to a guy running from the cops. About a block from his home. Plowed into his car at high speed on a neighborhood street and dragged it for 200’ into a block wall. Suspect survived of course. And that suspext was driving an old Accord, not a massive crew cab truck. Probably get a couple years if hes not out already due to them letting everyone out on bail for everything.


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TK1299

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I'd like an honest LE answer to this as well...because I have no idea?
What would have been the "right" thing to do in this situation?
Many factors dictate what to do when in a pursuit. What was he wanted for being the biggest; traffic, road conditions, speeds, all play a part in whether to pursue or terminate. I don’t want to Monday morning quarterback and I don’t know why he was being pursued.
More than likely the chase should have just continued until he crashed or gave up, or an opportune time for a pit presented itself, or a helicopter overhead to track the vehicle, or terminator all together. People crash when being chased and it’s the fault of the person running
However, I can definitively state the pit which was utilized in this video was an example of what not to do.
 

jvandy50

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First, thanks to anyone LE in here.

Second, this is their only helicopter and it doesn't have a crew with it at all times.
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In the end, the trooper took a risk to save people obeying the law from one breaking it...I'm thankful, and ok with it. Glad he made it.


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svtfocus2cobra

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Many factors dictate what to do when in a pursuit. What was he wanted for being the biggest; traffic, road conditions, speeds, all play a part in whether to pursue or terminate. I don’t want to Monday morning quarterback and I don’t know why he was being pursued.
More than likely the chase should have just continued until he crashed or gave up, or an opportune time for a pit presented itself, or a helicopter overhead to track the vehicle, or terminator all together. People crash when being chased and it’s the fault of the person running
However, I can definitively state the pit which was utilized in this video was an example of what not to do.

It must have been pretty serious since pit maneuvers are considered deadly force.
 

GNBRETT

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Guy needs some re-training in the PIT Manuver. That was terrible actually. Ur not supposed to "SMASH" ur car into the suspects car so YOU can lose control of ur car as well. That was the worst example of how the "PIT" maneuver is supposed to be executed and the end result is a reason why.
 

GNBRETT

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Georgia State Patrol has the best PIT training on planet Earth! Cops from all over the country come there to train the PIT.

Georgia State Patrol policy on the PIT maneuver basically says if u can PIT without injuring OTHER parties than its acceptable. They dont give a flying shit what happened to the driver as they see it as he put himself in that predicament.

In Georgia a Pursuit ends one of three ways...... Crash, Give up or run out of gas!

I'd like an honest LE answer to this as well...because I have no idea?
What would have been the "right" thing to do in this situation?
 

svtfocus2cobra

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Actually, PIT maneuvers are used in Lieu of Deadly Force. But I agree at those speeds its quite deadly.

Maybe it is different by state or county because from what I found with Washington state is that any Intentional Intervention (ramming) is classified as lethal force although under the definition of PIT it does not make mention of lethal force, but from the definition of ramming it technically would be classified as such as it falls into that category. My friend told me it is always considered deadly force and the information I found was in both his department's manual as well as Seattle's so I'll take his word for it since it is there. Since shooting into a moving vehicle at those speeds is prohibited, there is no other practical means of deadly force that can be applied in that scenario.

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Black Gold 380R

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I just watched this video on YouTube and then happened upon this thread.

I was curious about why he was running. News reporting indicated the forest service seen the guy run a red light and started pursuit then ASP took over.

Nothing after that was reported (i.e. what was reported/discovered after plates ran or why he ran the red light in the first place, etc.).

Not sure how much this video showed here, but I watched the full video on YouTube.

Guy was flying on roads with traffic lights (not a freeway) and driving into on coming traffic, so he was a threat to innocent bystanders.

As far as I'm concerned this is the same as being non compliant with police and the necessary force was utilized to stop this guy in order to save innocent lives.

Guy running from the cops died and cop was injured, but not life threatening. No one else was injured and one less dumbass in the world.

Like everything else this is debatable. I do not agree with termination pursuits because then more people will choose to run from the cops. However, I do understand the reasoning behind it.

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imstillclowning

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Im curious, it looks to me as if the preferred side to pit the guy was on the left side? Anyone know why that is or was that just a coincidence for this video?
 

Papaw

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If that cop would have let the crook continue and he ended up taking out some innocent person/people can you imagine the lawsuit that family would have? They would sue the dept. for not doing their job and stopping him when they had a chance and they would be right! That cop saved the dept. MILLIONS as well as the potential lives saved. He deserves a metal!
 

Papaw

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And then there are the intangibles. How many people will watch that video and maybe remember it when faced with their own decision to run from a cop or not. Maybe they will decide to pull over and stop. It's called a deterrent.
 

Machdup1

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When the truck crossed into oncoming traffic and due to a series of contributing factors, he became an extreme risk to society and had to be stopped immediately.

The officer made a choice from imperfect options, putting himself at risk to protect his citizens.

That is the definition of a hero and I will not second guess his actions from the comfort of couch.

BTW, if the driver of the truck died, good, I’m glad he is dead and I hope he burns in hell.
 

MG0h3

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When the truck crossed into oncoming traffic and due to a series of contributing factors, he became an extreme risk to society and had to be stopped immediately.

The officer made a choice from imperfect options, putting himself at risk to protect his citizens.

That is the definition of a hero and I will not second guess his actions from the comfort of couch.

BTW, if the driver of the truck died, good, I’m glad he is dead and I hope he burns in hell.

You’ve actually got it backwards.

If by the cop performing the PIT, 3rd party injury or property damage occurred, the Agency can be held liable.

They wouldn’t be liable for terminating.


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GNBRETT

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When u PIT someone at 100 MPH DEATH is usually waiting I agree lol.

But Cops use the PIT maneuver all the time. Every day in fact somewhere and most of the time it simply involves a driver who has failed to stop and less to do with the crime they committed so saying the PIT is deadly force just doesn't fit bro cause the Police PIT drivers who simply ran for having no license or committed a simple larceny which is a misdemeanor.

Some states do classify running from the Police as a felony but not necessarily a violent felony. In fact, here in "Snowflake land" AKA Connecticut its a misdemeanor to run from the Police and all ur MV charges are Misdemeanors so under state and federal law the use of deadly force just doesn't exist.

Deadly force is used for Violent Felonies. Sure, a Pursuit can be violent and have resulted from a violent felony but many are not so the use of deadly force would not be authorized in most pursuits.

The PIT itself is not deadly force cause if u PIT someone at 30 MPH the chance of Death is almost zero. Shoot someone with ur gun and the chance of death is very high.

But I see ur point and dont disagree totally.

Maybe it is different by state or county because from what I found with Washington state is that any Intentional Intervention (ramming) is classified as lethal force although under the definition of PIT it does not make mention of lethal force, but from the definition of ramming it technically would be classified as such as it falls into that category. My friend told me it is always considered deadly force and the information I found was in both his department's manual as well as Seattle's so I'll take his word for it since it is there. Since shooting into a moving vehicle at those speeds is prohibited, there is no other practical means of deadly force that can be applied in that scenario.

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Machdup1

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You’ve actually got it backwards.

If by the cop performing the PIT, 3rd party injury or property damage occurred, the Agency can be held liable.

They wouldn’t be liable for terminating.


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Liability < Dead Innocents.

BTW, the suspect pitted himself by ramming the squad car.
 

MG0h3

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Liability < Dead Innocents.

BTW, the suspect pitted himself by ramming the squad car.

You won’t find a case where a fleeing suspect killed a bystander and somehow the police were at fault.

If you did find a case where the police were at fault, it was because they continued the pursuit when it was unsafe, “forcing” the fleeing suspect to drive erratically.

This is literally the reason that we have pursuit policy, no spike zones, etc. A Supervisor is regularly asking for speeds, traffic conditions, and current location.




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svtfocus2cobra

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When u PIT someone at 100 MPH DEATH is usually waiting I agree lol.

But Cops use the PIT maneuver all the time. Every day in fact somewhere and most of the time it simply involves a driver who has failed to stop and less to do with the crime they committed so saying the PIT is deadly force just doesn't fit bro cause the Police PIT drivers who simply ran for having no license or committed a simple larceny which is a misdemeanor.

Some states do classify running from the Police as a felony but not necessarily a violent felony. In fact, here in "Snowflake land" AKA Connecticut its a misdemeanor to run from the Police and all ur MV charges are Misdemeanors so under state and federal law the use of deadly force just doesn't exist.

Deadly force is used for Violent Felonies. Sure, a Pursuit can be violent and have resulted from a violent felony but many are not so the use of deadly force would not be authorized in most pursuits.

The PIT itself is not deadly force cause if u PIT someone at 30 MPH the chance of Death is almost zero. Shoot someone with ur gun and the chance of death is very high.

But I see ur point and dont disagree totally.

It's classified as lethal force because regardless of the speeds death can still occur, and it often does every year. Creating the car accident with the PIT is the only thing the police have control of, but after that the condition and outcome of the driver and passengers of the fleeing vehicle is all dependent on a number of factors. They could PIT this truck at 25mph and it could roll over due to unforeseen conditions and the driver could be ejected and get crushed by the rolling truck because he wasn't wearing a seat belt. Is it likely? Not necessarily but it is still possible and rollovers have happened at slower speeds than that, and since the possibility of survival cannot be predicted by the department they must treat it as if the worst case scenario could happen and therefore it it is classified as lethal force.

The PIT maneuver is approved based off a number of factors as I'm sure you know. If there is a kid in the car, they likely won't utilize it, but even if the person committed a very minor offense and just decided to run the decision to PIT is determined on how much of a threat they are to other drivers and pedestrians. Just like an officer could/would shoot someone with a knife who hasn't stabbed anyone but is in a crowded area and has the capability of doing so. They just need to be able to prove that the person was capable of great bodily harm or death.

My initial statement of saying he must have done something serious and therefore they performed the PIT was incorrect because it was what he was doing while driving that determined the need to do so. He posed a threat of serious bodily harm or death to others by the speed and manner in which he was driving.
 

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