Geothermal heating and cooling in home

Anyone have experience with this type of system? Preparing for a new home build on the larger scale foot print size so I’m looking into ways to keep the home efficient and a geothermal set up was suggested from our builder.

I have no working experience with them but what I read looks promising outside of upfront cost. Anything I should be aware of?

This tristate area is ideal for geothermal. Only use a contractor that can provide an engineered design by a third party of proven success. It has come a long way.

One of my neighbors has it. Beyond diagnosing a failed pump for her, I don't really have any experience with it.

I found this info while Googling geothermal energy. It might help you.
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While the advantages of geothermal energy are plenty, it’s a good idea to acquaint yourself with the downsides. This will help you formulate countermeasures upfront to avoid inconveniences that come along with them. Here are some of the disadvantages of geothermal energy.

1. Geothermal energy has high initial capital costs
The cost of drilling wells to the geothermal reservoir is very expensive. Add the cost of heating, and cooling system installation and the cost goes even higher. Although there is a predictable Return On Investment (ROI), it might not happen fast. The cost of installing a geothermal heat pump in a basic home ranges from $10,000 to $20,000, which can pay off itself over time (5 to 10 years).

If you live in a poorly insulated and leaky home, it would be economical to invest that money in better insulation, energy-efficient doors and windows, draft sealing, and other upgrades that will assist minimize the amount of energy needed to heat and cool your home. As a matter of fact, it’s prudent to do this if you intend to install a geothermal system anyway since you’ll not need a lot of electricity to power the geothermal heat pump if you minimize the energy load.

2. May release harmful gases
Underneath the earth’s surface, there is a substantial amount of greenhouse gasses. The harnessing of the heat can potentially lead to the migration of these gasses to the surface of the earth and pollute the air.

These kinds of emissions are prevalent and higher where geothermal energy power plants are situated and are linked to silica and sulfur dioxide emissions. To add to that, the reservoir may contain toxic heavy metals such as arsenic, boron, and mercury.

3. Suited to a particular region
It’s hard to find remarkable geothermal reservoirs. Geothermal energy accounts for about one-third of Iceland and the Philippines’ electricity needs. The downside is that good sites for geothermal energy generation occur far away from cities or populations.

First, you must find a site that has the right type of hot rocks. Just any rock won’t work because certain rocks are too hard to drill through. The rocks should also occur within a reasonable depth to make drilling down more feasible. The best sites for geothermal energy production are high volcanic areas.

4. Geothermal heat pumps have to be powered
Although geothermal energy is a cheap alternative for heating and cooling homes, geothermal heat pumps require electricity to operate. If you install an inefficient geothermal heat pump, you may witness a spike in your electricity bills.

5. Geothermal sites may experience a dry spell
Geothermal heat coming from the reservoir below may die down or run out of steam even after years of activity. The dry spell may last decades, which is why it’s recommended that you use the heat prudently and not abuse it. Improper use can also result in a poor distribution of heat.

6. Sustainability issues
Although most research studies suggest that geothermal reservoirs are permanent, some studies indicate that they can be depleted if the water is extracted faster than it can replenish itself. This can be a problem for residential heating and cooling as geothermal energy is used differently when heating and cooling homes than in geothermal power plants.

7. Can cause surface instability
Construction of geothermal power plants has the potential to cause surface instability and trigger earthquakes. Conventional geothermal power plant construction involves drilling hot rock that contains trapped water or steam in its pores spaces and natural fractures. When these fractures are intersected by a drilled hole, the trapped water erupts as steam due to an instant drop in pressure.

The drilling its self may not trigger earthquakes, but the rupturing of steam and subsequent return of the used water to the hot water reservoir could. The cycle leads to instabilities along fracture lines that might result in an earthquake.

8. Extremely high temperatures required
Geothermal energy production is not an easy pursuit. Drilling into hot rocks is a daunting task. For any geothermal process to start, the required temperature must be present (the very least is 350 degrees Fahrenheit). A temperature lower than 350 degrees Fahrenheit may not be able to generate geothermal energy.

9. Distribution costs
In some situations, geothermal energy sites are located further from the population, hence, requiring a vast network of distribution systems. This only adds up the overall cost of setting up a geothermal system.

Although the disadvantages of geothermal energy exist, there are far more benefits to this form of energy than you can imagine. The main benefit of geothermal energy is the ability to heat and cool many homes at a significantly lower cost. Homeowners today in almost every developed country in the world are taking advantage of geothermal energy to install cooling and heating systems in order to increase the comfort of their homes and mightily reduce overall utility bills.

This incredible technology utilizes only the natural thermal heat from underneath the earth’s surface, a renewable resource, to effectively heat and cools a home. Another advantage of this system is that the only additional energy it requires to function optimally is a small amount of electricity to concentrate what the environment offers and then to circulate top-quality cooling and heating throughout the house.

Closed loop is most common unless you have a deep well into a aquifer that you can’t pump dry easily. The closed loop comes in two varieties, horizontal which is going to take up a good bit of space, akin to a septic system with the field lines versus a vertical loop that is bored deeply. Either way if you have a leak it can be expensive to fix, though horizontal is going to cost quite a bit more to find and correct the issue. You really need a company come out and do an analysis in regards to the lot and how deep you will have to go to attain consistent temps for efficiency. If it’s rocky it can be more expensive as you can imagine. Then you can get some bids.

It’s very simple honestly, removing the wild temperature swings that come from makeup air to heat or cool your home improves the efficiency greatly, just costly. Think of it as using the earth as one big radiator.

Come to think of it, it might be more cost effective to add a radiant heat setup if your location is accurate. Doubtful you have cooling issues that far North so it falls on the heating side. A good in floor radiant setup will almost make the actual heating system required negligible if you build it in a tight envelope. Not to mention your feet appreciate it and the whole house just feels warmer. The difference is huge in large areas and open concept homes where the heat radiates all around from the floor versus being pushed from a few sources to the surrounding area via ducting. Just food for thought.

I looked into geothermal, briefly, when we started our build. Decided to go with radiant floor heat and it works well. No ducting and no blowing air.

Move on, nothing to see here.

We did it 6-7 years ago. Love it.
It's a closed loop, 3 runs out into my field.
At install time the fed/state rebates covered 2/3 of the entire cost. Basically I was out 7k ish out of pocket.
My only regret is not doing it years earlier. Highly recommended!
I already had hvac ducts ran from my existing central heat/air unit so they just utilized those vs all new ducting.

Junior00 said:

Come to think of it, it might be more cost effective to add a radiant heat setup if your location is accurate. Doubtful you have cooling issues that far North so it falls on the heating side. A good in floor radiant setup will almost make the actual heating system required negligible if you build it in a tight envelope. Not to mention your feet appreciate it and the whole house just feels warmer. The difference is huge in large areas and open concept homes where the heat radiates all around from the floor versus being pushed from a few sources to the surrounding area via ducting. Just food for thought.

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Well be looking into that as well but it’s pricey in it’s self.

we are also going to make sure the building envelope is insulated more to bring up the R value, doing solar as we have great coverage area on both side of the roof getting sun all day, and doing quality windows. The house is getting done with the zip system as well which is something I had done on a previous home build a few years ago and really noticed a difference vs the current home we bought second hand currently.

we’ll be on 10 acres so plenty of room for a horizontal system, and the digging is negligible as I can do that or have a family member that will do it at cost. The builder were using is a family friend and is all for me saving money on digging and clearing if I pay my family member as that’s who he sub contracts to anyway.

The upside to the geothermal is were also doing a pool at the time of the home build so it makes sense to do everything at the same time. I do worry about potential leaks so I’m curious about that.

the home is open floor plan with open living room to the second story so it can definitely take a bit more to control temperature.

COOL COBRA said:

We did it 6-7 years ago. Love it.
It's a closed loop, 3 runs out into my field.
At install time the fed/state rebates covered 2/3 of the entire cost. Basically I was out 7k ish out of pocket.
My only regret is not doing it years earlier. Highly recommended!
I already had hvac ducts ran from my existing central heat/air unit so they just utilized those vs all new ducting.

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Yea we would definitely be doing closed loop system. It good to hear a positive review. It seems most I read people are weary about the upfront cost. We’re building this home with the intentions of spending the next 20-30 years in it

My94GT said:

Yea we would definitely be doing closed loop system. It good to hear a positive review. It seems most I read people are weary about the upfront cost. We’re building this home with the intentions of spending the next 20-30 years in it

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Sounds like you've got a handle on it. I've yet to see someone with this system not love it. My folks have had one for 20+ years.
We just had many days/nights of single digit-minus zero temps. The house stayed at 70 degrees.
And in the summer it does great also. Low humidity & 72 in the house.
My installer provided me with the rebate info. We also did the new water heater that is prewarmed by the system. Got a rebate on that also from the local electric co-op.
Even without the rebates I'd be happy with it. But in the end it was nice only paying +- 1/3 of the total cost out of pocket.
The brand of our unit is Water Furnace.

My94GT said:

Well be looking into that as well but it’s pricey in it’s self.

we are also going to make sure the building envelope is insulated more to bring up the R value, doing solar as we have great coverage area on both side of the roof getting sun all day, and doing quality windows. The house is getting done with the zip system as well which is something I had done on a previous home build a few years ago and really noticed a difference vs the current home we bought second hand currently.

we’ll be on 10 acres so plenty of room for a horizontal system, and the digging is negligible as I can do that or have a family member that will do it at cost. The builder were using is a family friend and is all for me saving money on digging and clearing if I pay my family member as that’s who he sub contracts to anyway.

The upside to the geothermal is were also doing a pool at the time of the home build so it makes sense to do everything at the same time. I do worry about potential leaks so I’m curious about that.

the home is open floor plan with open living room to the second story so it can definitely take a bit more to control temperature.

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You need someone then to calculate your energy losses for the home plan then. Either I think would be good candidates with what you have available. I’ve seen 4000 sq/ft open concept homes heated with just the radiant flooring in parts up North. In the end it will come down to a cost benefit ratio derived from those calculated energy losses vs the initial investment so you can figure out what will be cheaper long term and how long the payoff period is. Is this a slab or basement build?

Junior00 said:

You need someone then to calculate your energy losses for the home plan then. Either I think would be good candidates with what you have available. I’ve seen 4000 sq/ft open concept homes heated with just the radiant flooring in parts up North. In the end it will come down to a cost benefit ratio derived from those calculated energy losses vs the initial investment so you can figure out what will be cheaper long term and how long the payoff period is. Is this a slab or basement build?

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Basement build and between the house and connected in law suite it’s around 6800 sq ft above ground if I remember correctly.

I definitely agree about the number crunching, the builder will be mitigating that as they’ve done both radiant systems and some of the newer hybrid equipment. My parameters were I basically want to be off the grid energy wise if possible and see roi with in 10-12 years between everything we do and current rebates hopefully

It will definitely come down to number crunching then. I helped my buddy do his house which is a 4600ft ranch basement and the radiant we laid under main floor decking attached to the top plate of the web trusses heats both the main floor and the basement. He had another loop installed when they poured the foundation but hasn’t even used it yet and likely wouldn’t have too. So far he hasn’t even used his furnace except to function test it over the past 2 years. Granted we’re here in Ga at the foothills of the mountains but still.

Of you’ve got the money though, geo sounds appealing. I also wonder if you could tie it to your pool via exchanger and make do with a much smaller pool heater for year round use. You going to have propane available?

Junior00 said:

It will definitely come down to number crunching then. I helped my buddy do his house which is a 4600ft ranch basement and the radiant we laid under main floor decking attached to the top plate of the web trusses heats both the main floor and the basement. He had another loop installed when they poured the foundation but hasn’t even used it yet and likely wouldn’t have too. So far he hasn’t even used his furnace except to function test it over the past 2 years. Granted we’re here in Ga at the foothills of the mountains but still.

Of you’ve got the money though, geo sounds appealing. I also wonder if you could tie it to your pool via exchanger and make do with a much smaller pool heater for year round use. You going to have propane available?

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I’ll have an upper story as well so how would I broach that if I did radiant? Or would I just run a forced air unit to mitigate the upstairs only?

I think tying the pool into the loop was part of the thought process but from I’ve looked into I think a separate unit would still need to run it. I’m not sure on that part though.

yes I will still have propane tanks dropped in the yard.

Radiant systems can be very simple or very complex. I have 3 zones and kept it relatively simple. You can put thermostats on every single loop and use powered valves at the manifold to control flow to every single square foot of your house. I didn't see the need for that, but my plumber did his system that way. I think he has 10 or 12 thermostats.

Move on, nothing to see here.

My94GT said:

I’ll have an upper story as well so how would I broach that if I did radiant? Or would I just run a forced air unit to mitigate the upstairs only?

I think tying the pool into the loop was part of the thought process but from I’ve looked into I think a separate unit would still need to run it. I’m not sure on that part though.

yes I will still have propane tanks dropped in the yard.

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What Wiz said, it can be as simple or complex as you like. You can have multiple zones like we ran, but thus far my buddy has found it sufficient with just the one in service. You being up North is different though. I have seen that zip system used and it creates a very tight envelope when taped properly, in fact I’ve seen housed too tight and it’s hard to open doors with the hvac running. With his, he has a duel fuel unit for both upstairs and down that is heat pump and switches to propane furnace when below 38 degrees is what I think it’s set at.

Yes, your pool heater would definitely need to be on a separate loop. Not too expensive or difficult on a horizontal loop but might get spendy on a vertical setup.

Junior00 said:

Come to think of it, it might be more cost effective to add a radiant heat setup if your location is accurate. Doubtful you have cooling issues that far North so it falls on the heating side. A good in floor radiant setup will almost make the actual heating system required negligible if you build it in a tight envelope. Not to mention your feet appreciate it and the whole house just feels warmer. The difference is huge in large areas and open concept homes where the heat radiates all around from the floor versus being pushed from a few sources to the surrounding area via ducting. Just food for thought.

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That is good suggestion. I considered radiant heat many years ago when we built our house. But we were on a somewhat tight budget so I passed. I really wish we had got that route because most of our floors are not wood/tile which feel cold unless you're wearing slippers. I don't really mind it, but my wife does.

CobraBob said:

That is good suggestion. I considered radiant heat many years ago when we built our house. But we were on a somewhat tight budget so I passed. I really wish we had got that route because most of our floors are not wood/tile which feel cold unless you're wearing slippers. I don't really mind it, but my wife does.

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We’re doing electric radiant heat grids in the main touch point areas in the bathroom. I had wanted through the whole house since it’ll all be that engineered flooring but it could add up quick. Didn’t price up what a radiant system vs traditional hvac would run though so it is something to look at.

I’d also love to have radiant heat in the garage floor slab but pending on what we do with central hvac in the home we may plumb that into the garage as well so I can have heat and ac if desired. Just want to have it set to run off a thermostat independently if possible. All this snow balls real quickly on the price point so we’ll see. I’m completely fine with just hanging a gas heater in the ceiling for the garage as well and just using one of those big ass fans or something similar for air flow in the summer.

A friend of mine does hvac for a living. Recently spoke to him about maybe switching to geo thermal. He said the cost of it is way to high to justify. He also mentioned the repair costs are typically much more expensive over your traditional units. My house is about 4600 Sq ft. Once it's time to replace the units I'll probably go with a smaller dual set up. That way I can keep each level comfortable. Also in my area lots of the rebates have gone away so you end up eating the 20k it costs to install the system.

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