101 octane with S/C

5.0Black

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Hi Everyone,

I recently moved out to CA for the next couple of years and one thing I hate out here is gas. I know E85 is legal, but from Monterey CA to San Jose is 90 miles round trip. This leaves me with pump gas, until recent. I recently found out that I have access to VP101 unleaded regularly mon-fri. I have my mod list below and my main questions are twofold. Can the clutch handle the power increase and is 101 gas worth it? To me it sounded like from Exedy it could. Money isn't a concern on price per gallon as my Mustang is one of 3 cars. It won't be driven enough mileage wise to be topped off super frequently. Are there any issues with longevity of running this as a DD gas for my mustang as long as I have VMP write me up a tune for the octane?

Car 2013 Mustang GT Track Pack:
-Roush Phase 1 supercharger kit with VMP 91 & 93 octane tunes via SCT tuner box
-Ford Racing adjustable suspension kit (front coil overs, rear shock and spring, adjustable rear pan hard bar, front & rear swap bars
-DSS one piece CF drive shaft
-MGW Short shifter assembly
-Exedy Stage 3 Mach 500 organic clutch with matching light weight flywheel (new TB as well)
-Ford Racing upgraded clutch line
-Michelin PS4S tires
-Ford racing axle back exhaust

Thank you for the assitance!
 

sur_real1

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It'll handle it until it doesn't. I'm running an Exedy stage 3 clutch with my procharged setup and have run racing fuel. You may want a retune for the VP101 though. Yes, the car will handle it out of the gate just fine, but it's not really getting the extra benefit of spending the money on a fuel you aren't actually tuned for. At that point, might as well just run the 91 and a can of boostane. Me personally, we only have access to 92 in Washington with E85 in 3 parts of the state. I've run trick racing fuel in the past, but my car is actually happier on boostane with the 92. With that being said, I'm stepping up to a meth kit anyhow.
This is just my opinion. You do you.
 

Stangra

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For over a year I was running the same blower kit w/an 82mm pulley, DW95's, VMP pump booster, a Lund 93 octane tune and 28k on the stock clutch. I was mixing 2 parts 91 octane to 1 part 100 octane resulting in ~94 octane and had no problems. 6 months ago I converted to E85 and am now making 660rwhp with a 79mm pulley, still on the stock clutch and pushing it till it fails before upgrading. So far so good! Better performance than 100 and much cheaper. I have 3 E85 stations within 15 - 25 miles, but I keep a dozen 5gal. cans at home too.

Monterey CA to San Jose is 90 miles round trip? I thought it's more like 70 mi one way. I drove 140 mi. one way from the North Bay to Laguna Seca Raceway running on E85. Last available E85 fuel stop was S.J. and I carried quite a few extra 5gal. cans with me for use at the track.

Like you I have an SCT. I have several tunes and could switch between E85 and gas by draining the system and loading the proper tune, in fact I may just do that next time so I can get all the way to & from the track on gas any carry less track fuel with me.
 

5.0Black

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You may want a retune for the VP101 though. Yes, the car will handle it out of the gate just fine, but it's not really getting the extra benefit of spending the money on a fuel you aren't actually tuned for. At that point, might as well just run the 91 and a can of boostane. Me personally, we only have access to 92 in Washington with E85 in 3 parts of the state. I've run trick racing fuel in the past, but my car is actually happier on boostane with the 92. With that being said, I'm stepping up to a meth kit anyhow.
This is just my opinion. You do you.

Thank you. Absolutely, I have no intentions of running race gas without a proper tune. The octane difference alone could cause some issues. Just curious what the power increase is on race gas to see if it is worth it, and if my clutch will handle it while I am out here in CA. It is rated to 500tq factoring a 20% drivetrain loss. It seems like if I stay phase 1 that it will handle it on 101. If I go phase II it will be pushing the limit tq wise, especially on race gas.

For over a year I was running the same blower kit w/an 82mm pulley, DW95's, VMP pump booster, a Lund 93 octane tune and 28k on the stock clutch. I was mixing 2 parts 91 octane to 1 part 100 octane resulting in ~94 octane and had no problems. 6 months ago I converted to E85 and am now making 660rwhp with a 79mm pulley, still on the stock clutch and pushing it till it fails before upgrading. So far so good! Better performance than 100 and much cheaper. I have 3 E85 stations within 15 - 25 miles, but I keep a dozen 5gal. cans at home too.

Monterey CA to San Jose is 90 miles round trip? I thought it's more like 70 mi one way. I drove 140 mi. one way from the North Bay to Laguna Seca Raceway running on E85. Last available E85 fuel stop was S.J. and I carried quite a few extra 5gal. cans with me for use at the track.

Like you I have an SCT. I have several tunes and could switch between E85 and gas by draining the system and loading the proper tune, in fact I may just do that next time so I can get all the way to & from the track on gas any carry less track fuel with me.

Thank you for the response. Yea I messed up on the mileage gap between Monterey and SJ. Online it said it was 46 miles away from my zip, it's actually a little a little over 140 miles round trip lol. Just went up there to top off my 5 gal tank with E85. Just curious how long do you store E85 before its too late? I understand it oxidizes faster than regular pump gas so it can't be stored for as long. I would love to run E85 for power gains and cheaper gas prices, but at 140+ miles round trip my Mustang would be way too low on gas by the time I got back. I would consider it if I had the space in my garage for more 5 gallon tanks in my garage, but I don't unfortunately. I could fit max I think 3 in my garage. Just curious for draining the tank do you just run the car down to 0-5 miles to E and change gas? I have considered putting a couple of gallons of E85 in my Mustang and reload the 93 octane tune.
 

Stangra

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Thank you for the response. Yea I messed up on the mileage gap between Monterey and SJ. Online it said it was 46 miles away from my zip, it's actually a little a little over 140 miles round trip lol. Just went up there to top off my 5 gal tank with E85. Just curious how long do you store E85 before its too late? I understand it oxidizes faster than regular pump gas so it can't be stored for as long. I would love to run E85 for power gains and cheaper gas prices, but at 140+ miles round trip my Mustang would be way too low on gas by the time I got back. I would consider it if I had the space in my garage for more 5 gallon tanks in my garage, but I don't unfortunately. I could fit max I think 3 in my garage. Just curious for draining the tank do you just run the car down to 0-5 miles to E and change gas? I have considered putting a couple of gallons of E85 in my Mustang and reload the 93 octane tune.

E85 should be OK for a year if stored properly, not sure if it oxidizes faster but it's very hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture) Keep it sealed in airtight containers and avoid big changes in temp.

To drain the tank I disconnect the fuel line at the rail and plug it into an older model fuel filter (has a matching fitting for the fuel rail connection) with rubber fuel hose pressed onto the other end. Turn the key on and fuel pump drains the tank. Your tuner can give you a tune that will enable the fuel pump with key on/eng. off, or you if you know which contacts to jump you can 'hack' the pump to run with eng. off. A jumper harness makes this simple:
2011-2018 Mustang GT / GT350 Fuel pump drain jumper harness

If you put E85 in your Mustang you'll need an E85 tune, E85 fuel/air ratio is a lot richer than gas.
 

Stangra

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I know this doesn't address your original concern about clutch capacity, but since you mentioned power gains too, here's another thought if you have 101 readily available and don't mind paying for it.

This table was provided to me from Lund, check with your tuner to confirm. I've been told that we can pulley down (increase boost) within reason without a different tune. MAF will sense added airflow and adjust fuel accordingly, it's octane that's critical at higher boost levels. If your injectors/pump will support the fuel requirements there's a lot left on the table with the Roush Phase 1, and a smaller pulley is one big difference between the Phase 1 and higher levels. With the right tools at hand a pulley change takes 10 min. or less. Just remember, never run too small of a pulley for the octane you're using!!!

pulley-octane.jpg
 

5.0Black

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E85 should be OK for a year if stored properly, not sure if it oxidizes faster but it's very hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture) Keep it sealed in airtight containers and avoid big changes in temp.

To drain the tank I disconnect the fuel line at the rail and plug it into an older model fuel filter (has a matching fitting for the fuel rail connection) with rubber fuel hose pressed onto the other end. Turn the key on and fuel pump drains the tank. Your tuner can give you a tune that will enable the fuel pump with key on/eng. off, or you if you know which contacts to jump you can 'hack' the pump to run with eng. off. A jumper harness makes this simple:
2011-2018 Mustang GT / GT350 Fuel pump drain jumper harness

Gotcha, wasn't sure if the swap in fuels was different from my RS3 or not. I know with my tuner I can run it to 0-5 miles and be good. I have also used E85 as a booster for when the octane is low on the data logs. I guess it comes down to the tolerance of the tune for the range. Interesting process you have and I appreciate the info. I will check with my tuner (VMP) on it to see what they say.

I know this doesn't address your original concern about clutch capacity, but since you mentioned power gains too, here's another thought if you have 101 readily available and don't mind paying for it.

This table was provided to me from Lund, check with your tuner to confirm. I've been told that we can pulley down (increase boost) within reason without a different tune. MAF will sense added airflow and adjust fuel accordingly, it's octane that's critical at higher boost levels. If your injectors/pump will support the fuel requirements there's a lot left on the table with the Roush Phase 1, and a smaller pulley is one big difference between the Phase 1 and higher levels. With the right tools at hand a pulley change takes 10 min. or less. Just remember, never run too small of a pulley for the octane you're using!!!

View attachment 1624281
That is awesome. Good, useful information on that table I was unaware of candidly. I will upgrade my SC at some point so good to know. That being said I don't foresee myself going beyond 82mm ever. I am good paying for VP101 as my Mustang isn't my only car. The mileage will remain low on it so at the rate I would be topping it off it would be fine. I just need to figure out if it is worth it to request a tune for VP 101 while on phase I for my SC. There is a chance I go phase II out here in CA, but I had initially intended on waiting till after my wife and I are out of CA in a couple of years.
 

Stangra

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I have considered putting a couple of gallons of E85 in my Mustang and reload the 93 octane tune.

I have also used E85 as a booster for when the octane is low on the data logs.

I just need to figure out if it is worth it to request a tune for VP 101 while on phase I for my SC. There is a chance I go phase II out here in CA...

Remember, the stoichiometric mixture for gas is a bit under 15 grams of air to 1 gram of fuel. For E85, a bit under 10 to 1. If you run any significant amount of E85 it may tend to increase your "octane" a bit, but with a motor tuned for gas it will run too lean. Could be bad news.

FYI, when it comes time for emissions inspection only the Roush Phase 1 kit is CARB legal in CA, Phase 2 & 3 are not. I think most of the difference between 1 & 2 is in the tune and adding a CAI, Phase 3 also steps down to an 80mm pulley and adds a fuel pump booster as well. If you're VMP tuned now you probably noticed how much that woke up the car compared to the Roush tune. I'll bet you're already meeting Phase 2 performance. I think you could get a significant bump in power just by adding a pump booster, going to smaller pulley, and getting a tune update from VMP for 101 octane. Emissions test? unplug the pump booster, put the 85 pulley on & reflash the Roush Phase one tune. If your car isn't set up to take advantage of a higher octane fuel it wont help or hurt either, just waste money.
 

5.0Black

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Remember, the stoichiometric mixture for gas is a bit under 15 grams of air to 1 gram of fuel. For E85, a bit under 10 to 1. If you run any significant amount of E85 it may tend to increase your "octane" a bit, but with a motor tuned for gas it will run too lean. Could be bad news.

FYI, when it comes time for emissions inspection only the Roush Phase 1 kit is CARB legal in CA, Phase 2 & 3 are not. I think most of the difference between 1 & 2 is in the tune and adding a CAI, Phase 3 also steps down to an 80mm pulley and adds a fuel pump booster as well. If you're VMP tuned now you probably noticed how much that woke up the car compared to the Roush tune. I'll bet you're already meeting Phase 2 performance. I think you could get a significant bump in power just by adding a pump booster, going to smaller pulley, and getting a tune update from VMP for 101 octane. Emissions test? unplug the pump booster, put the 85 pulley on & reflash the Roush Phase one tune. If your car isn't set up to take advantage of a higher octane fuel it wont help or hurt either, just waste money.

No, I hear you. I started using E85 to boost the octane in my RS3 from my tuner as opposed to a more traditional octane booster. This was back when I was having some gas quality issues in Norfolk. Now I just tend to splash about a gallon in there to be a little safe so I don't have to datalog after every time I top off.

Yea, that is a large reason why I went with the Phase 1 kit was to get CARB stickers under my hood. Hoping that when I upgrade I can keep the CARB stickers under my hood lol. Truthfully I never used Roush's tune. I read very mediocre things about the Roush tune that came with the kit so I just jumped to VMP. Certainly pleased with it, I also have a tune for VMP for emissions that is supposedly about everything you can do from a tuning perspective for emissions so I don't have a need for the Roush tune. I haven't tested it yet, but probably won't have to until after I am out CA (still registered in Norfolk for a couple of years lol). I think you have it right with the pulley, pump booster and a tune for VP101, a smaller pulley and a pump booster. My only concern at that point would be the cylinders in the engine, I hear around 700hp you should do some work with the pistons. I also will need better rubber lol.
 

sur_real1

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Thank you. Absolutely, I have no intentions of running race gas without a proper tune. The octane difference alone could cause some issues. Just curious what the power increase is on race gas to see if it is worth it, and if my clutch will handle it while I am out here in CA. It is rated to 500tq factoring a 20% drivetrain loss. It seems like if I stay phase 1 that it will handle it on 101. If I go phase II it will be pushing the limit tq wise, especially on race gas.
Well, on 92 octane at 9-10 lbs of boost I was able to get at least 12 degrees of timing under load and made about 630ish at the wheels with my current Exedy clutch. When I run boostane or race fuel, I can get over 15 degrees of timing at 13lbs of boost. We haven't dyno'd it with the more timing and boost, but I'm sure we're making quite a bit more power and the clutch seems to be holding up fine. The transmission itself is a different story. We dyno tuned on low boost, but street tuned when I swapped out the pulley, and were using 3rd gear for WOT. Let's just say 3rd doesn't like doing that a bunch and now it has a fun whine in 3rd :) I knew this would be happening and I have a spare MT82 in my garage for when it gives up the ghost. But, the clutch handled the street tuning fantastic.
 

5.0Black

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Well, on 92 octane at 9-10 lbs of boost I was able to get at least 12 degrees of timing under load and made about 630ish at the wheels with my current Exedy clutch. When I run boostane or race fuel, I can get over 15 degrees of timing at 13lbs of boost. We haven't dyno'd it with the more timing and boost, but I'm sure we're making quite a bit more power and the clutch seems to be holding up fine. The transmission itself is a different story. We dyno tuned on low boost, but street tuned when I swapped out the pulley, and were using 3rd gear for WOT. Let's just say 3rd doesn't like doing that a bunch and now it has a fun whine in 3rd :) I knew this would be happening and I have a spare MT82 in my garage for when it gives up the ghost. But, the clutch handled the street tuning fantastic.
Interesting. I didn't think about my actual tranny being a problem in putting up the power I have. I swapped the clutch and tossed in an MGW short shifter as I found those to be necessary replacements, but now I am a little worried about actually needing to upgrade/swap the tranny.
 

sur_real1

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Well, the factory MT82 can handle a lot of power, however, it can only handle it for so long. It's nothing like the tremec. Remember, the clutch is a wear item and is designed to slip and fail over time, saving the transmission. However, as the clutch holds more, the things behind it are asked to hold more as well :) You'll find more breaking points as you beef up pieces along the drivetrain. #sendittilyoubendit
 

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