15GT going sink 12/13 boss values?
- Thread starter kingnut
- Start date
I don't thinks so. I'm all for progress.. If anyone feels screwed, it will probably be the uneducated impulse type buyer who doesn't know what a Boss really is...
Doubtful.
And in any event, cars are made to be driven, they're not "investments" despite what watching too much Barrett Jackson has deluded some people into believing.
How many people bought GT500s in 2007, paid ridiculous markups over MSRP, and stored them in garages thinking they were going to increase in value or something. You can see them on cars.com asking ridiculous prices, and them still sitting unsold in their garages. If they'd have driven them instead they'd be a lot happier. Same with the Z06, ZR1, and all the other limited edition cars out there.
So don't worry about what a new model is going to do to the "value" of your car. A car is a depreciating asset not an investment. Drive it. Enjoy it.
And in any event, cars are made to be driven, they're not "investments" despite what watching too much Barrett Jackson has deluded some people into believing.
How many people bought GT500s in 2007, paid ridiculous markups over MSRP, and stored them in garages thinking they were going to increase in value or something. You can see them on cars.com asking ridiculous prices, and them still sitting unsold in their garages. If they'd have driven them instead they'd be a lot happier. Same with the Z06, ZR1, and all the other limited edition cars out there.
So don't worry about what a new model is going to do to the "value" of your car. A car is a depreciating asset not an investment. Drive it. Enjoy it.
It's just progress.
Compare 2007 gt500 stock to a 2012 boss?
Compare a 2000 cobra r vs 2004 cobra.
Cars and technology moves forward. At least most of the time. (Cough) 1996 gt (cough)
I would see used boss mustangs at least for another year or so to hover around the current price tags in the used market. It is a specialty car not just a gt mustang with an appearance package.
Just my thoughts on the topic.
Josh
Compare 2007 gt500 stock to a 2012 boss?
Compare a 2000 cobra r vs 2004 cobra.
Cars and technology moves forward. At least most of the time. (Cough) 1996 gt (cough)
I would see used boss mustangs at least for another year or so to hover around the current price tags in the used market. It is a specialty car not just a gt mustang with an appearance package.
Just my thoughts on the topic.
Josh
Screwed? What a joke. Damned if you do make improvements, damned if you don't. If the new GT wasn't an improvement people would be going nuts about how Ford ruined the mustang with IRS and a new design that can't even keep up with the B302. Anyone who buys something assuming it won't get trumped a few years later is pretty foolish… especially Mustang owners looking at Fords recent track record for incremental improvements.
Some people will always prefer the boss cars to the new model, and in the long run I don't think the values will be hurt too badly… especially the LS.
Some people will always prefer the boss cars to the new model, and in the long run I don't think the values will be hurt too badly… especially the LS.
Maybe, but in the end; you will still have just a GT. The Boss owners will have a limited run Boss 302 that is no longer in production.
You really don't know much about how car values work. They sold just over 8000 Boss 302's. Their will be about 10-20 times as many S550 GT's. Boss 302's will always be worth big money based on limited production. The S550 like ALL mustang GT's will eventually fall to 20% value of original MSRP. Go look at old muscle cars what do you think sells more at auction the rare 69-70 Boss 302 or the higher performance GT with a 351 or 390 that they made a ton more of.
And who said better engine. From what I read the new S550 has an inferior intake manifold, heads that are not CNC ported (just more flow no specifics at what lift range that flow is at) like the roadrunner, a lower redline, and running weak cast pistons unlike the Boss. The only thing the new S550 has on the Boss is 1mm of lift on the intake cam and bigger valves.
Not to mention who said lighter. Ford has not released weights yet and with a bigger car with a heavier style suspension nobody knows what the weight will come out to. And the only mention I've heard of weight reduction is aluminum fenders. I wouldn't hold your breath on significant weight reduction.
I'd be honestly shocked if the S550 GT put down as much power as the BOSS 302. Like I said the only power producing mods it has over the BOSS is 1mm on the intake cam and bigger valves. But going against it has lower flowing heads, a much worse intake manifold that is now further restricted with CM plates and a lower redline then the BOSS. Not to mention more drivetrain loss with IRS. It's not a sure bet that the S550 will outgun the BOSS.
And who said better engine. From what I read the new S550 has an inferior intake manifold, heads that are not CNC ported (just more flow no specifics at what lift range that flow is at) like the roadrunner, a lower redline, and running weak cast pistons unlike the Boss. The only thing the new S550 has on the Boss is 1mm of lift on the intake cam and bigger valves.
Not to mention who said lighter. Ford has not released weights yet and with a bigger car with a heavier style suspension nobody knows what the weight will come out to. And the only mention I've heard of weight reduction is aluminum fenders. I wouldn't hold your breath on significant weight reduction.
I'd be honestly shocked if the S550 GT put down as much power as the BOSS 302. Like I said the only power producing mods it has over the BOSS is 1mm on the intake cam and bigger valves. But going against it has lower flowing heads, a much worse intake manifold that is now further restricted with CM plates and a lower redline then the BOSS. Not to mention more drivetrain loss with IRS. It's not a sure bet that the S550 will outgun the BOSS.
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Exactly... Look at the 03/04 Mach 1! It held its value pretty well...:rollseyes
The Boss will drop as well unless it's bubble wrapped. 8000 units is pretty far from rare. Imo, just enjoy your car and either trade up or mod up if a new model makes you feel inadequate. Keeping up with the Joneses is always a losing battle.
It's easy to get wrapped up in stock numbers but the reality is that equaling this new car performance wise will be easier to do than the guys that bought 2010 4.6's. We might see a power bump in the new ones (like 99's 260 hp vs 98's 220), but since the coyote is still the coyote and the PI 4.6 was still a 4.6, power mods will be easier to equal or best the next gen. We also already know the s197 has a very tunable chasis and that there are many guys running lap times in their modded GT's equaling or besting the Boss anyway (if you track your car because I know some of you do). So know you bought a great car with great potential (GT and Boss) and that the new cars numbers will be naturally better stock. Happens every generation (except 96 like was stated, and 74).
The Boss will drop as well unless it's bubble wrapped. 8000 units is pretty far from rare. Imo, just enjoy your car and either trade up or mod up if a new model makes you feel inadequate. Keeping up with the Joneses is always a losing battle.
It's easy to get wrapped up in stock numbers but the reality is that equaling this new car performance wise will be easier to do than the guys that bought 2010 4.6's. We might see a power bump in the new ones (like 99's 260 hp vs 98's 220), but since the coyote is still the coyote and the PI 4.6 was still a 4.6, power mods will be easier to equal or best the next gen. We also already know the s197 has a very tunable chasis and that there are many guys running lap times in their modded GT's equaling or besting the Boss anyway (if you track your car because I know some of you do). So know you bought a great car with great potential (GT and Boss) and that the new cars numbers will be naturally better stock. Happens every generation (except 96 like was stated, and 74).
Blackvette...you have flow #'s for the new GT head already? post them up.
Heads are also revised and better flowing, plus 2mm more lift on exhaust side. I agree on the IM though.. definitely the bottleneck, but who knows how much. I'm surprised they didn't up the redline a few hundred RPM. I'm guessing its because it won't matter with the new IM. I think its going to be close to the boss as-is, but an IM swap should really make it shine and will probably be the hot mod and show bigger gains then exhaust changes.
Then again it may be putting down similar #'s as the boss at the wheels and making up for the drivetrain losses by making more at the crank. I'm really curious to see advertised vs rated #'s.
Then again it may be putting down similar #'s as the boss at the wheels and making up for the drivetrain losses by making more at the crank. I'm really curious to see advertised vs rated #'s.
Boss prices will continue to drop, probably at the same rate. Its all in what the current market is doing...If there are less boss's for sale you will be able to get a premium. If everyone sells their boss then prices will drop because there will be a lot of them out there for sale.
As for outgunning the boss, it'll be faster around a track for sure. Mostly due to handling improvements. Id imagine a revised intake manifold doesnt necessarily mean its worse. Not to mention with the boss springs and revised cams a higher factory rev limit is definitely possible. Intake should be able to take advantage of the bigger valves and larger cams. I dont think anyone is going to be complaining about power or the ability to make power on the S550
As for outgunning the boss, it'll be faster around a track for sure. Mostly due to handling improvements. Id imagine a revised intake manifold doesnt necessarily mean its worse. Not to mention with the boss springs and revised cams a higher factory rev limit is definitely possible. Intake should be able to take advantage of the bigger valves and larger cams. I dont think anyone is going to be complaining about power or the ability to make power on the S550
The Bosses are not rare cars. They will lose value proportianate like just about any other car. The '15 GT will not do it, time alone will. Maybe in 10-15 years the price on them will stop dropping, but I dont see them going up afterwards like the classics.
One thing is for sure it will sink 11-14 GT prices through the floor.
It has been released that they are not CNC ported like the roadrunner heads. All that has been released is that they revised the port and added bigger valves. Well everything they revised for this engine has been focused on torque production. Without physically CNC'ing the port size don't expect it to flow like a roadrunner head.
Boss 302's already have 13mm exhaust lift like the new engine. They have 12mm intake lift will the new one will have 13mm. 1mm of lift without duration increase is not a big power adder. People see little to no gains on the Coyote with Boss 302 cams and that's +1mm intake and +2mm exhaust. Intake manifold swap should be a huge gain on this engine. But from the factory the manifold will kill power. Especially with charge motion plates in the way now.
Their were 16,783 Mach 1's produced alittle different then 8000. But if you look at the mach you must look at the cobra which retained its value better then almost all cars produced in the last 20 years.
8000 is very rare for mustangs.
19k terminators produced
42k GT500's produced
They haven't released total S197 mustang numbers yet but its looking like it will be close to 750k total.
As far as modern production mustangs the BOSS 302 line is about as rare as it get's besides the cobrajet or the laguna seca. They sold 3.5 mustang GT's in 2012 alone for every Boss 302 ever produced.
It has been released that they are not CNC ported like the roadrunner heads. All that has been released is that they revised the port and added bigger valves. Well everything they revised for this engine has been focused on torque production. Without physically CNC'ing the port size don't expect it to flow like a roadrunner head.
Boss 302's already have 13mm exhaust lift like the new engine. They have 12mm intake lift will the new one will have 13mm. 1mm of lift without duration increase is not a big power adder. People see little to no gains on the Coyote with Boss 302 cams and that's +1mm intake and +2mm exhaust. Intake manifold swap should be a huge gain on this engine. But from the factory the manifold will kill power. Especially with charge motion plates in the way now.
Their were 16,783 Mach 1's produced alittle different then 8000. But if you look at the mach you must look at the cobra which retained its value better then almost all cars produced in the last 20 years.
8000 is very rare for mustangs.
19k terminators produced
42k GT500's produced
They haven't released total S197 mustang numbers yet but its looking like it will be close to 750k total.
As far as modern production mustangs the BOSS 302 line is about as rare as it get's besides the cobrajet or the laguna seca. They sold 3.5 mustang GT's in 2012 alone for every Boss 302 ever produced.
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once motortrend bust the nuts of a boss with the new gt... it will be all over these boards and other boards.. prices will drop.. only reason 03 cobras have held on so well is because power wise they could not be beat till now.
It depends. The economy is numero uno, but the syling of the 2015's may or may not sale as much as Ford is hoping. I am hoping they sell well, but the 13-14 GT will be highly sought after imo. They are the epitome of the S197 platform.
I bought my Boss not for resale value. I bought it because I drove a 13 GT500, ZL1 Camaro and Challenger SRT8 and found the Boss to be a better mix of agility and power. Not to mention its one of the most fun cars to drive I have ever had. That is saying a lot!
The 15 Mustang has to pull off some magic to top that imo. Even my previous C6 Z06 couldnt.
That is why the Boss will always have a special place.
The 15 Mustang has to pull off some magic to top that imo. Even my previous C6 Z06 couldnt.
That is why the Boss will always have a special place.
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Maybe, but I don't really care. Next car is a Stingray or used 997 Turbo so I'm not too concerned if the regular GT is a little quicker than my Boss stock for stock.
As with all new cars, depreciation is going to happen to the current gen. As far as 11-14 GTs sinking through the floor, this is not certain. A lot of assumptions are being made but lets not forget the many possible variables: 15 design is controversial, price point of the 15 GT is unclear with the 4 banger in the mix, old s197 4.6 GT's still go for high teens. Fact is, right now I can still sell it for just a few grand less than what I paid. Depreciation has not been too bad on the s197's thus far. Vettes, all BMWs ect... all lose tens of thousands of dollars of value from their original price point in just a few years time. The margin of loss is less on a s197 V8.
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They lose more money because those cars u mentioned are a lot more to begin with. S197 loses way more percentage than vetted and bmw's. C'mon use principals of proportion
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