2.3L Turbo the most interesting new offering?

[mc01svt]

LOL at someone comparing 335i's which are 3.0 Turbo 6cyls.

Yes, the aftermarket will respond to this car, no doubt. But they're not going to make 500+whp no problem. I think 400-440whp will be the absolute max WITH all of the bolt ons (turbo, intercooler, piping, exhaust, fuel, etc...). And the people who do that will be so excited to beat a 5.0 or keep up with one with bolt ons. Yea you saved 5k on the car, and spent in mods instead.

+1

Considering the fact that the ecoboost 3.5L maxes out around 450rwhp with 2 extra cylinders, larger turbos and more displacememt im guessing you will be hardpressed to get over 400rwhp out of the 2.3L. There is no point anyway, by the time you spend thousands in mods you couldve just bought a GT which will have over 400rwhp from the factory.

Id rather have 400rwhp with a warranty than 400rwhp thats tuned on the ragged edge and living on borrowed time. :bored:

 

[paynecasey]

+1

Considering the fact that the ecoboost 3.5L maxes out around 450rwhp with 2 extra cylinders, larger turbos and more displacememt im guessing you will be hardpressed to get over 400rwhp out of the 2.3L. There is no point anyway, by the time you spend thousands in mods you couldve just bought a GT which will have over 400rwhp from the factory.

Id rather have 400rwhp with a warranty than 400rwhp thats tuned on the ragged edge and living on borrowed time. :bored:

I know I'm just repeating my self but there is something special about a lighter car. The GT will have to gut it's self to match it. As long as the track packs the same expect the SVO version to out brake, how handle the GT. As for straight line power. That can be bought. And it's nice the svo will probably have cheaper insurance and gas bills.

 

[Voltwings]

+1

Considering the fact that the ecoboost 3.5L maxes out around 450rwhp with 2 extra cylinders, larger turbos and more displacememt im guessing you will be hardpressed to get over 400rwhp out of the 2.3L. There is no point anyway, by the time you spend thousands in mods you couldve just bought a GT which will have over 400rwhp from the factory.

Id rather have 400rwhp with a warranty than 400rwhp thats tuned on the ragged edge and living on borrowed time. :bored:

I feel your logic is off in a few places. For starters, most modern 4-cylinders are hardly on the ragged edge at 400. Secondly, if you're referring to the SHO maxing out at 450 whp, its also AWD, which is going to put significantly more loss into the equation. Granted its a different platform so its apples to oranges, but there are countless records of Bolt on / E85 Mazdaspeed3's (my previous platform as mentioned earlier in this thread, and SHOCKINGLY similiar to the focus ST motor, so i wouldnt be surprised to see some of that technology here) beating stock 5.0's.

Mods needed to do so?
Cobb accessport: $650. seems steep, but i like cobb 100X better than SCT, its worth it.
Test pipe (2nd cat removal): $150
3" - 3.5" intake: $300 give or take
a downpipe will help, but you can get by without one: $150 (ebay) - $700
Then E85 with a good tune. Once a 5.0 had mods though it was game over, i'm not going to act like all stock turbo cars are V8 killers, hell why do you think im driving a 5.0 now lol. I'm just saying most people dont give the modern turbo 4 the credit it deserves.

I really hope COBB hops behind this platform like they did the ST, because their software is 100% free. Mazdaspeed forums is full of useful tuning advice, and it could really open this platform up. I tuned guys safely to 325 whp and 380 wtq with the above mods, but ran my own car closer to 340 whp and 420 wtq on the stock turbo, and i also tuned the stock turbo record of 375 / 456 but his car was heavily modded. The torque (and about 400 lb weight advantage in the ms3's case) are what make turbo cars so lethal, i expect some feelings to be hurt when the aftermarket gets behind these cars. THAT BEING SAID, Ford really held the focus ST back in a few key places. It has a small factory turbo, even by factory turbo standards, and the exhaust manifold is cast into the head with an elbow going to the turbo's hotside. Even with the addition of a larger turbo, that significantly limits their aftermarket potential, and if Ford makes the same decision with the Mustang i can see its power potential being severely hindered.

I can still easily see it being an autox / track day monster, but at this point it is still all just speculation.

 

[paynecasey]

I feel your logic is off in a few places. For starters, most modern 4-cylinders are hardly on the ragged edge at 400. Secondly, if you're referring to the SHO maxing out at 450 whp, its also AWD, which is going to put significantly more loss into the equation. Granted its a different platform so its apples to oranges, but there are countless records of Bolt on / E85 Mazdaspeed3's (my previous platform as mentioned earlier in this thread, and SHOCKINGLY similiar to the focus ST motor, so i wouldnt be surprised to see some of that technology here) beating stock 5.0's.

Mods needed to do so?
Cobb accessport: $650. seems steep, but i like cobb 100X better than SCT, its worth it.
Test pipe (2nd cat removal): $150
3" - 3.5" intake: $300 give or take
a downpipe will help, but you can get by without one: $150 (ebay) - $700
Then E85 with a good tune. Once a 5.0 had mods though it was game over, i'm not going to act like all stock turbo cars are V8 killers, hell why do you think im driving a 5.0 now lol. I'm just saying most people dont give the modern turbo 4 the credit it deserves.

I really hope COBB hops behind this platform like they did the ST, because their software is 100% free. Mazdaspeed forums is full of useful tuning advice, and it could really open this platform up. I tuned guys safely to 325 whp and 380 wtq with the above mods, but ran my own car closer to 340 whp and 420 wtq on the stock turbo, and i also tuned the stock turbo record of 375 / 456 but his car was heavily modded. The torque (and about 400 lb weight advantage in the ms3's case) are what make turbo cars so lethal, i expect some feelings to be hurt when the aftermarket gets behind these cars. THAT BEING SAID, Ford really held the focus ST back in a few key places. It has a small factory turbo, even by factory turbo standards, and the exhaust manifold is cast into the head with an elbow going to the turbo's hotside. Even with the addition of a larger turbo, that significantly limits their aftermarket potential, and if Ford makes the same decision with the Mustang i can see its power potential being severely hindered.

I can still easily see it being an autox / track day monster, but at this point it is still all just speculation.

Isn't the hp on the Sho Limited by how much power the Awd can handle? I thought it was 450.

 

[Voltwings]

Isn't the hp on the Sho Limited by how much power the Awd can handle? I thought it was 450.

I'm not sure, but my point remains the same when saying it was "maxed out"at 450. It may be a safety thing, but 450 rwhp and 450 Awhp are two completely different things. I couldnt tell you the first thing about the SHO though, i've never really looked into them much.

 

[mc01svt]

Isn't the hp on the Sho Limited by how much power the Awd can handle? I thought it was 450.

nope, not true.. It is limited by the high pressure pump. Currently there is no high capacity aftermarket version. Its not a simple case of ordering some high flow injectors and in-tank pump off of e-bay. In order to get big power you need a complete secondary port fuel injection system and the proper controls. Few are willing to go through that much trouble.


Also you guys forget the 3.5 ecoboost has even larger stock turbos on the f-150. Guess what, its still limited to the 430rwhp range.

 

[mc01svt]

I feel your logic is off in a few places. For starters, most modern 4-cylinders are hardly on the ragged edge at 400. Secondly, if you're referring to the SHO maxing out at 450 whp, its also AWD, which is going to put significantly more loss into the equation. Granted its a different platform so its apples to oranges, but there are countless records of Bolt on / E85 Mazdaspeed3's (my previous platform as mentioned earlier in this thread, and SHOCKINGLY similiar to the focus ST motor, so i wouldnt be surprised to see some of that technology here) beating stock 5.0's.

Mods needed to do so?
Cobb accessport: $650. seems steep, but i like cobb 100X better than SCT, its worth it.
Test pipe (2nd cat removal): $150
3" - 3.5" intake: $300 give or take
a downpipe will help, but you can get by without one: $150 (ebay) - $700
Then E85 with a good tune. Once a 5.0 had mods though it was game over, i'm not going to act like all stock turbo cars are V8 killers, hell why do you think im driving a 5.0 now lol. I'm just saying most people dont give the modern turbo 4 the credit it deserves.

I really hope COBB hops behind this platform like they did the ST, because their software is 100% free. Mazdaspeed forums is full of useful tuning advice, and it could really open this platform up. I tuned guys safely to 325 whp and 380 wtq with the above mods, but ran my own car closer to 340 whp and 420 wtq on the stock turbo, and i also tuned the stock turbo record of 375 / 456 but his car was heavily modded. The torque (and about 400 lb weight advantage in the ms3's case) are what make turbo cars so lethal, i expect some feelings to be hurt when the aftermarket gets behind these cars. THAT BEING SAID, Ford really held the focus ST back in a few key places. It has a small factory turbo, even by factory turbo standards, and the exhaust manifold is cast into the head with an elbow going to the turbo's hotside. Even with the addition of a larger turbo, that significantly limits their aftermarket potential, and if Ford makes the same decision with the Mustang i can see its power potential being severely hindered.

I can still easily see it being an autox / track day monster, but at this point it is still all just speculation.

Again, the SHO isnt the only vehicle available with 3.5 ecoboost. You can get a 2wd f-150 with it as well. Engine has been out almost 4 years and no one has been able to make big power out of it without completely re-engineering the fuel system. Direct injection is a long way off from having the aftermarket support as port fuel systems. I think we all can agree that whatever capabilitys the 2.3 eco has, it will be less than the 3.5 eco. So you will all be sorely dissappointed if you think you can slap $500 of parts on it and destroy v-8 cars.

 

[HEMI LOL]

Again, the SHO isnt the only vehicle available with 3.5 ecoboost. You can get a 2wd f-150 with it as well. Engine has been out almost 4 years and no one has been able to make big power out of it without completely re-engineering the fuel system. Direct injection is a long way off from having the aftermarket support as port fuel systems. I think we all can agree that whatever capabilitys the 2.3 eco has, it will be less than the 3.5 eco. So you will all be sorely dissappointed if you think you can slap $500 of parts on it and destroy v-8 cars.

are you just making this stuff up as you go? there are many 440whp+ SHOs around. current record holder is 600whp. fueling is nearly figured out and the 3.5 can hold 800whp as many have figured its massive rods and 6 bolt mains are hardly taxed at current power levels.

the fastest SHO is 11.90's@119 and that with the AWD system bogging the car to save the rear diff. and thats in a full weight 4400lbs SHO.

now since we know NOTHING about the new 2.3EB i don't think you can discount its power levels and modibility. 400whp with DP+tune is probably very realistic. FM/meth/tuning/bigger turbo 440-500whp is probably a safe bet.

 

[mc01svt]

are you just making this stuff up as you go? there are many 440whp+ SHOs around. current record holder is 600whp. fueling is nearly figured out and the 3.5 can hold 800whp as many have figured its massive rods and 6 bolt mains are hardly taxed at current power levels.

All those cars have a completely re-engineered fuel system with a dry port injection style system added to it. When i said maxxes out at 450whp i was referring to common bolt-ons that you could do in your garage, CAI, tuner, turbo, intercooler, downpipe..etc. Not shop cars with $15,000 of work done to them. :nonono:

See below, this is one of the 600whp ecoboost which you refer to. It has 12 injectors, 3 pumps and 2 ECUs. Hardly anything an average rodder would do.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?967220-First-Ecoboost-to-600HP![

 

[Voltwings]

All those cars have a completely re-engineered fuel system with a dry port injection style system added to it. When i said maxxes out at 450whp i was referring to common bolt-ons that you could do in your garage, CAI, tuner, turbo, intercooler, downpipe..etc. Not shop cars with $15,000 of work done to them. :nonono:

See below, this is one of the 600whp ecoboost which you refer to. It has 12 injectors, 3 pumps and 2 ECUs. Hardly anything an average rodder would do.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?967220-First-Ecoboost-to-600HP![

$15,000 worth of work lol. I had a stand alone port injection system on my mazda that i installed and tuned myself, and it can be had for less than $1000. Thats a stand alone Fuel injector controller, in tank fuel pump, 2x 1000cc injectors, a dual injector boss welded into the intercooler piping, and misc. AN fittings and lines. That setup was good to over 600 whp on E85 but trust me, i am WELL aware of DI's short comings, and the issue is far from new. Hell the Mazdaspeed record like 4 years ago was 708 whp with the guy just spraying a shit load of meth for aux fueling, and now its over 800 with a full stand alone port injection system, that was still only about $3000 said and done, and that includes a $1000 intake manifold. With more cars going DI, and DI injectors and systems being extremely expensive and complex, auxillary fueling will likely be the Go-To method for quite some time until companys really step up and design some larger injectors, but i feel that day is still a ways off.

Now, i'll agree this is more than your basic bolt on person will ever do, and i also doubt we'll be seeing 400 whp on stock turbo unless its a very good sized turbo. The downside to large factory turbos like on the Evo X is they're often paired with a very steep gear to avoid any sort of lag. The Evo X stock turbo flows 48 lbs/min, which is about as much as a Garrett 3071 if you're familiar with it, but its paired with a 4.55 gear stock...

 

[mc01svt]

$15,000 worth of work lol. I had a stand alone port injection system on my mazda that i installed and tuned myself, and it can be had for less than $1000. Thats a stand alone Fuel injector controller, in tank fuel pump, 2x 1000cc injectors, a dual injector boss welded into the intercooler piping, and misc. AN fittings and lines.

Why do people always understate how much their mods cost? Lets be realistic here. The downpipe alone for the 3.5 eco is $600 by itself. SCT tuner is almost $400. We've already broken the $1,000 mark for the 2 simplest mods you can do. :bash: Upgrade turbos are an additional $2,500. Im not gonna sit here and itemize this guys entire modlist but i can assure you he is well over the $10,000 mark. There's a reason why you dont see 600whp SHOs on every street corner.

 

[Voltwings]

Why do people always understate how much their mods cost? Lets be realistic here. The downpipe alone for the 3.5 eco is $600 by itself. SCT tuner is almost $400. We've already broken the $1,000 mark for the 2 simplest mods you can do. :bash: Upgrade turbos are an additional $2,500. Im not gonna sit here and itemize this guys entire modlist but i can assure you he is well over the $10,000 mark. There's a reason why you dont see 600whp SHOs on every street corner.

What I gave you was the cost of the fuel upgrade since thats what we were talking about. Bolt ons are bolt ons and that money will get spent regardless, we were discussing the extra money and effort needed to get more fuel, so thats what i was covering. Also, you're talking apples to oranges here. You're quoting prices for a twin turbo car, when we're talking about simplicity of modding a single turbo one. I'm not saying the price will be exactly half, but you can get one hell of a single turbo for $2500... my gtx3576 with oil lines / coolant lines / couplers was $1900, and thats a 600 whp turbo on the right car. I had about $12k into my mazda said and done for 500 whp, so i agree its not cheap. However, once you factor in $5,000 for a built motor and clutch, the actual power making parts were not "that" much. The ST motor has already been torn apart, and its noted to be significantly more stout than the MS3 motor, and an Ms3 is good to 450 - 500 on stock block with a good tune. Assuming this EB turbo-4 carries some of the same architechture, a motor build could be overkill for most modders, which would be very cool.

 

[04svtsnke]

All those cars have a completely re-engineered fuel system with a dry port injection style system added to it. When i said maxxes out at 450whp i was referring to common bolt-ons that you could do in your garage, CAI, tuner, turbo, intercooler, downpipe..etc. Not shop cars with $15,000 of work done to them. :nonono:

See below, this is one of the 600whp ecoboost which you refer to. It has 12 injectors, 3 pumps and 2 ECUs. Hardly anything an average rodder would do.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?967220-First-Ecoboost-to-600HP![

The mustangs aren't coming with DI. I'm confused as to why you think 400-440 rwhp is unheard of? The srt4's make them easily with a big turbo kit. If the new ecoboost mustang is EFI and not DI, then a fuel pump, injectors and boltons should make it very nasty. A big turbo and peoples feelings will get hurt.

 

[Voltwings]

The mustangs aren't coming with DI. I'm confused as to why you think 400-440 rwhp is unheard of? The srt4's make them easily with a big turbo kit. If the new ecoboost mustang is EFI and not DI, then a fuel pump, injectors and boltons should make it very nasty. A big turbo and peoples feelings will get hurt.

All ecoboost motors are direct injection. As he stated before, i believe he is saying the limit is coming from fueling potential.

 

[Lemers]

Bottom line is a lot of money can buy a lot of horse power. But dollar for dollar; I'm gonna go with the 5.0 were I can rely on the factory backed power and performance and not a hodge-podge of aftermarket promises and hopes.

 

[Voltwings]

Bottom line is a lot of money can buy a lot of horse power. But dollar for dollar; I'm gonna go with the 5.0 were I can rely on the factory backed power and performance and not a hodge-podge of aftermarket promises and hopes.

Deleted.

 

[mc01svt]

The mustangs aren't coming with DI. I'm confused as to why you think 400-440 rwhp is unheard of? The srt4's make them easily with a big turbo kit. If the new ecoboost mustang is EFI and not DI, then a fuel pump, injectors and boltons should make it very nasty. A big turbo and peoples feelings will get hurt.

**shakes head***

Srt-4, Evo, Wrx-Sti and pretty much all cars have sequential port fuel injection that operates around 45-70psi. Port fuel injection has been around 30yrs and parts are cheap and plentiful. You can easily order an upgrade in tank or inline pump and injectors off ebay for a few hundred bucks. So the sky is the limit as far as power potential.

On the other hand the mazda speed series as well as Ecoboost motors have direct injection. :read: It requires a high pressure pump and highly precise injectors that operate over 2,000psi. The pump capacity is what it is. Cant be upgraded and there arent any aftermarket equivalents. So no matter how many bolt-ons and mods you put on you will be limited by fuel flow. The high pressure pump probably cost more to manufacturer than the entire short block so there is no way in hell ford is going to equip the engine with twice the amount of pump capacity than it needs.

 

[Mach828]

I'd buy a 2.3 turbo if it comes with a 6r80. It wouldn't be a drag car, but I think it would be a great daily, highway car, and corner carver.

I'd probably do the basic mods, wheels, drop, exhaust, intake, and a tune. Then just enjoy a reliable ride. If you are looking for hp and quarter mile times, the 2.3 is a bad choice.

 

[HEMI LOL]

All those cars have a completely re-engineered fuel system with a dry port injection style system added to it. When i said maxxes out at 450whp i was referring to common bolt-ons that you could do in your garage, CAI, tuner, turbo, intercooler, downpipe..etc. Not shop cars with $15,000 of work done to them. :nonono:

See below, this is one of the 600whp ecoboost which you refer to. It has 12 injectors, 3 pumps and 2 ECUs. Hardly anything an average rodder would do.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?967220-First-Ecoboost-to-600HP![

LOL your so FOS its amazing. NONE of those cars outside of the 600whp Flex have hardly any fuel mods. SHOs make 400whp with tune/DPs. stock FP, stock injectors ect.

i own a SHO, I'm very aware of what it can do.

 

[mc01svt]

LOL your so FOS its amazing. NONE of those cars outside of the 600whp Flex have hardly any fuel mods. SHOs make 400whp with tune/DPs. stock FP, stock injectors ect.

i own a SHO, I'm very aware of what it can do.

Did you actually read my post? :shrug: I clearly stated that they max out around 450whp with stock fuel system. I never said they couldnt make 400whp with boltons. My original point was to show that the 2.3 eco will have much less power potential than the 3.5. It has 34% less displacement, 2 less cylinders and a much smaller turbo. If you cant understand that not sure what else to tell you.