2 TOB's in <1000 miles

[Finaltheorem47]

What am I doing wrong? First TOB lasted about 200 miles, it was a Ram TOB. I set the preload to about 1/8-1/4" fork pushed in and it started chirping only after about 200 miles. Second bearing I put in was a Ford unit and it lasted 800 miles or so before it started clicking. Both of the TOB sounds would go away when I'd push the clutch in more...

I'm going to do that magnet mod next, but I don't understand why they keep failing. A local mustang shop gave me the 1/8-1/4" preload number and I googled around and people agree that these TOB's need some preload, and that they're designed to ride along the PP fingers.


So I'm asking, how do you adjust your clutch. I'm obviously doing something wrong.

 

[01yellercobra]

I thought these bearings didn't have any preload on them? I have mine set up so that I have a little free play with the pedal all the way up. I can pull the the cable away from the firewall adjuster maybe a 1/4". I have the pedal height adjuster from MM, so I don't have a long pedal throw.

 

[3B99SVT]

Doesn't the LDC clutch mod push the clutch fork back so the TOB doesn't touch the PP?

 

[GoatSlayer]

Check your throwout bearing sleeve. Sometimes they tend to warp slightly after an extended time of usage and thus causing the throwout bearing to fail.

 

[Finaltheorem47]

So I've been working on adjusting my clutch, the problem I'm having is unless I set preload, the pedal hits the floor before it disengages enough to let me shift. I need a good amount of preload for it to be enough, so there is no way possible I can any gap (even 1/16" gap between the PP fingers and the TOB).

I have stock pedal, UPR 3 hook quad, set on hook closest to firewall (tried 3rd hook, didn't seem to change anything), UPR firewall adjuster and a newish (about 3000 miles) Ford cable, fork, TOB and an adjustable pivot ball. As far as the clicking noise, I believe that my adjustable pivot ball has either been adjusted wrong or it has managed to work its way out a bit, making the top of the fork ride against the pressure plate a bit. I'm pulling the transmission either tommorrow or Friday.

I'm looking for advice now on:

- Properly adjusting the clutch, I can't have any gap... I need to preload the bearing to have enough travel to get the clutch to disengauge.

- Properly adjusting the pivot ball so that it sticks out the right amount... Do I want it to stick out as far as possible w/out touching the PP? Do I want to adjust it as far in as I can? What do I want?

 

[3B99SVT]

- Properly adjusting the pivot ball so that it sticks out the right amount... Do I want it to stick out as far as possible w/out touching the PP? Do I want to adjust it as far in as I can? What do I want?

I've never used an adjustable pivot ball so I'm not sure if there are any "hidden secrets" to adjusting it. But from a pure geometric point of view to get the most TOB travel when you push in the clutch the clutch fork should be parallel w/the face of the flywheel 1/2 way through its travel. I imagine you can only check it when the tranny is installed so take a look at the clutch fork travel as someone is pushing and releasing the clutch pedal before you pull the tranny.

 

[006]

Pivot balls is not for adjusting.

a STEEDA clutch quadrant is what I fully recommend.

With the adjuster fully screwed into the firewall, pull the cable and set it on the tightest quadrant fork with a 1-2 cm slack.

Then proceed out to the engine bay and unscrew the firewall adjuster until you have the perfect engagement point.

If you had screwed around with trying to make the pivot ball adjustable somehow, then you ****ed up.

 

[Finaltheorem47]

Pivot balls is not for adjusting.

a STEEDA clutch quadrant is what I fully recommend.

With the adjuster fully screwed into the firewall, pull the cable and set it on the tightest quadrant fork with a 1-2 cm slack.

Then proceed out to the engine bay and unscrew the firewall adjuster until you have the perfect engagement point.

If you had screwed around with trying to make the pivot ball adjustable somehow, then you ****ed up.

I had to replace my pivot ball due to the previous one being damaged. Not wanting to wait for it to be shipped from Tousley and the fact that no dealers had it in stock, I went to a mustang shop and bought a Lakewood adjustable ball.

(like this)
Lakewood Adjustable Clutch Fork Pivot Ball - JEGS

Also, let me get this straight, you're adjusting the clutch to get the right engagement point? Not to get the right preload/gap between the Fingers/TOB?

 

[01yellercobra]

If the pivot ball isn't adjusted correctly then the clutch fork won't have the correct amount of travel. That could cause the engagement issues you're having. I'm sure someone knows the correct measurement. Or maybe you can find someone with a tranny pulled out and they can measure the height of their stock pivot ball.

 

[006]

I had to replace my pivot ball due to the previous one being damaged. Not wanting to wait for it to be shipped from Tousley and the fact that no dealers had it in stock, I went to a mustang shop and bought a Lakewood adjustable ball.

(like this)
Lakewood Adjustable Clutch Fork Pivot Ball - JEGS

Also, let me get this straight, you're adjusting the clutch to get the right engagement point? Not to get the right preload/gap between the Fingers/TOB?

Yep, that pivot ball could be the source of all your problems.

A few years ago while replacing my clutch, I found that the pivot ball stud was worn in an unusual shape, and after looking for a replacement locally, I came across a similar one like the lakewood but due not feeling too good about it's lack of a built in stop like the stock one, my buddy and I decided to resurface my old one to a better rounded shape and we reused it.

My instructions above are on how to set the cable so that you have enough tension or slack. This is the first step.

The second step is setting whatever preload you want, but you have to do step # 1 correctly first.

 

[006]

Also, here is a clutch checklist:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/new-edge-cobras-51/631628-final-checklist-clutch-job.html

Good Luck!

Ken

 

[01fordcobra]

Pivot balls is not for adjusting.

If the pivot ball isn't adjusted correctly then the clutch fork won't have the correct amount of travel.

Yep, that pivot ball could be the source of all your problems.

Your advise, 006, is horrible and you contradict yourself. Or did you just change your mind b/c you figured slo984now was right?

 

[tmhutch]

You're getting alot of good advice. I will throw in my two cents and re-iterate a few things. First, do NOT preload the bearing. It will fail every time.

Second, determine the minimum amount your clutch needs to be depressed in order to function correctly, then give it a little extra for clutch wear. If you want to take the transmission out of the car (I dont think you have to at this point) you can maintain this reference by measuring the distance between the fork and the fork opening on the transmission for example.

Once you have found this point and have the clutch adjusted where you want it on the depressed side you can get some extra range of motion on top side to get the TO bearing off the clutch by removing the plastic hook that acts like a stop. It is located at the top of the clutch pedal (just saw it off) and you will see it if you climb under there and move the clutch arm back and forth against the stop.

For whatever reason our clutch geometry was pretty bad from the factory. The above mod works well without firewall adjusters or any other aftermarket "fix" apparatus.

 

[006]

Your advise, 006, is horrible and you contradict yourself. Or did you just change your mind b/c you figured slo984now was right?

:??:

Where is the contradiction?

I bet that I've done more clutch work than you ever have. :lol: I speak from PERSONAL hands-on experience.

The factory pivot ball set up is not designed to be adjustable.

There is no adjustment to the pivot ball required. Using that lakewood POS is asking for trouble. Unless he used locktite on the threads, it will either screw in, or unscrew itself. Again, this could be the source of his problem. Click that link I posted above to see my pics. You'll see what a stock pivot ball looks like. I replace them for every clutch job I do.

Do you know how a pivot works? If you raise or lower one side too much, the angle of engagement will vary.

What part of that did you not understand? Or did I have to spell it all out for ya? oke:

WTF??

 

[Double"O"]

go with an OEM FRPP TOB

 

[01fordcobra]

It's Geometry. If you are using an adjustable pivot it just needs to be at the proper length. Which could change depending on the cable that you use, the quadrant, or adjuster. You most certainly can use an adjustable one. This gives you more room for adjustment of the cable and to not put a preload on the bearing like some people end up doing. Which is why the TOB has to be replaced so often. Just cuz my post count isn't high doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Do you need me to draw a diagram to show you how an adjustable pivot ball changes the equation?oke:

 

[006]

It's Geometry. If you are using an adjustable pivot it just needs to be at the proper length. Which could change depending on the cable that you use, the quadrant, or adjuster. You most certainly can use an adjustable one. This gives you more room for adjustment of the cable and to not put a preload on the bearing like some people end up doing. Which is why the TOB has to be replaced so often. Just cuz my post count isn't high doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Do you need me to draw a diagram to show you how an adjustable pivot ball changes the equation?oke:

This has nothing to do with a post count.

You obviously have not installed one in person and the difference here is that I have installed many. I've also been faced with installing an "adjustable" one and it was not gonna work as you think it will. I know my geometry quite well ;-)

Like I said many times already, this part is not designed to be adjustable and any height adjustments will cause an out of range engagement.