2014 GT500 vs. 2004 EVO

[kaz109]

OK perfect example, a base vette is still a performance car so can you say the base mustang is in the same class? Its not. A base Porsche is a performance car...a base viper is a performance car....


I love all cars ( except GM lol) so for you to say I am a hater points to you being either blind or naïve to the car world in general ( which I don't think u are, just took my comments the wrong way) because what I am saying is not that of trashing any car we have talked about in this thread.

 

[kaz109]

The car is capable of higher speeds. Its just a tire speed rating thing. Put some z rated tires on it and tune out the limiter and you are set. They are decent performers though.. average high 13sec et's. There are a few pretty quick ones too.. in the 12's and I believe a turbo V6 in the 10's.

OK ...well I never said they weren't good performers ( not directed to you more to Jroc) but because if comes from the factory with those tires and that limiter should end the category debate IMO...it preforms well for what it is but that doesn't make it a performance car

 

[Jroc]

The V6 Mustang was definitely not aimed at the performance segment. Its a basic financial moneymaker for Ford. Had they intended the V6 to be a decent performer, they would have put different tires on it and not speed limited the car to 112mph.

Incorrect. While not a world beater in terms of performance it's still a performance based car. It's about having a car that makes you feel good, and cool about yourself, and having fun because the vehicle has a sporty nature to it. If your sole purpose for buying a car is for it's practicality then there are way better options than any Mustang. If practicality is the only reason for the car then there would be no reason for Ford to sell, or for people to buy a RWD, 2 door, budget v6 coupe with an optional manual transmission. That doesn't make any sense. A Miata or FR-S is slow as shit compared to many performance cars, but they are still sport cars that are made to appeal to their owners senses, and for them to have fun driving. A v6 Mustang is to a v8 Mustang what a base Corvette is to a Z06/ZR1, and a base 911 is to a 911 Tubro/GT3, etc for people with less $. In it's purist forum Mustang is still about enjoying the way your car makes you feel, and it's image which some people find cool regardless of it's cylinder count, just in a much more budget forum and with less performance than a Vette or 911. Believe it or not not everyone wants or needs a 500 HP Vette or 550 HP GT500 to have fun driving their cars.

Jroc

To call me a mustang hater because I don't agree with some ppl's thought process is naïve and childish. Not once have a bashed a mustang in this thread or any other thread. I simply pointed out somebody bashing a performance car because of its roots when he IMO drives the same thing. I didnt not say anything negetive or trash the GT500 in the early or late pages of this thread either. It is well known I am a GM hater and I trash them on a regular, that I can own up to but my being a mustang or ford hater is just not even close to being true.

Now back to the topic at hand, I see your point in the performance test but if we go by that as being the sole identity then the brz/fr-s wouldn't be considered one judging by the numbers but it is every bit a sports car. I just don't feel that a car that is last in its food chain can be called a sports car simply because it is faster then other cars in its price range. I still feel a person owning a mustang gt and trashing an evo because of the evos roots is the pot calling the kettle black. I know the v6 puts down decent times for what it is but that doesn't mean I will just just at the chance to call it a sports car.


As I said earlier, I understand your thought process I just don't agree with it. If me not agreeing with everything and anything another ford fan says makes me a hater than you have some growing up to do. I like the debates and I am trying to think of an example ( car comparison) so you can visualize what I am saying but my mind is drawning a blank as it was a long night last night lol...I will reply to you though is I feel for the most part you can actually hold a discussion unlike most others I have talked to in this thread

You never have anything good to say about a Ford. You constant argue against them.

Lets look at this thread for example:

First I do know a little bit about a EVO. I'm no expert, but I have a decent knowledge of them. Back in 03 when the EVO came out and hit our shores I was a big import guy and had a huge hard on for the car. I know the 4G63 is built like a tank, and has huge power potential. I know the EVO's chassis has an extra 200 welds over a base Lancer chassis. I know the Recaro's and MOMO steeringwheel feel wonderful as does it's shifter. I know it has extremely quick steering. I thought having 4 wheel Brembo brakes on a $35K performance car was the shit back in 03. I know a EVO has the potential to beat up on some every expensive/fast cars when modded correctly. Still you want to act like it's absurd that someone who throws $10K in mods at a EVO can lose in a roll race to a stock 662 BHP GT500 which excels in a roll race. It would be pathetic if a GT500 that can be optioned to almost $70K, and has 662 BHP from a big/efficient/blown v8 that's geared for the highway to just roll over every time a budget 4 cylinder car that geared short with only $10K in mods came challenging it in a high speed roll race. Know is it possible for a EVO VIII/IX to do that? I'd say yeah as a EVO is one of those cars that has the potential to be that good, but it better come correct as a new GT500 is too fast and powerful to half-step to. Not every EVO with $10K in performance mods is going to go out and beat up on cars as fast as a new GT500, but there are likely ones out there that will. I can say that you can throw $10K in performances mods at a Foxbody and go beat up on stock C6Z's in a roll, and I'm sure their are quite a few examples that will, but I guarantee you that not every Foxbody with $10K in mods running around the streets will take down a stock Z in a roll race.

In this thread you and several others started acting like it's inconceivable that a EVO with $10K in mods can lose to a new GT500 which is pretty ridiculous as you are great selling the GT500 short on just how fast it is. Sure some people started talking a bunch of smack about the EVO, but if I remember correctly it was only after y'all started bringing the GT500 down like it was BS that it could beat a budget performance car that's been around for 11 years with a factory 276 BHP from a turbo I4 in a high speed roll race when it's had $10K in mods thrown at it.

Like I said earlier it wouldn't have surprised me if the EVO took this victory, but it doesn't surprise me and it should surprise anyone else that it didn't either.

 

[germeezy1]

The V6 Mustang was definitely not aimed at the performance segment. Its a basic financial moneymaker for Ford. Had they intended the V6 to be a decent performer, they would have put different tires on it and not speed limited the car to 112mph.

We don't always agree but when we agree....we REALLY agree....

The main issue in this thread is those that have no clue acting like the ownership of a Mustang makes them an expert on the EVO. I, and a few others already proved wrong the quite stupid ideas put out there about how slow an EVO would be with $10k in mods. Owning a Mustang that costs $35,000 does not make you better than someone driving a $40k EVO X regardless of the difference in performance.

 

[scott9050]

2013 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution easily outdone by the Subaru Impreza WRX - NY Daily News

It also features an undeniable lack of sophistication, as it cannot escape its economy car roots. The interior does not do justice to the nearly $35,000 demanded for the car.

If Mitsubishi can't hang on here, it is really the Evo which will be missed. That's the problem. The only enthusiastic brand loyalists left for the "Three Diamonds" is a very narrow slice of a very small pie.

2013 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR photos, specs, pricing - Autoweek

At its core, the Evolution is a $17,000 economy car with a lot of upgrades.

For the interior, there are Recaro seats and a leather-wrapped sport steering wheel. But besides those two things, the cabin looks like it's from a $17,000 economy car with acres of hard plastic panels.

Oops:

Next Mitsubishi Evolution to ditch Lancer roots, go hybrid? | New and Used Car Reviews, Research & Automotive-Industry News & LeftLaneNews

 

[germeezy1]

The guy driving the economy car based EVO X for $35,000 can easily purchase your car if he wants to. So at the end of the day it does not make the Mustang owner some genius among idiots.

 

[Black*Death]

We don't always agree but when we agree....we REALLY agree....

The main issue in this thread is those that have no clue acting like the ownership of a Mustang makes them an expert on the EVO. I, and a few others already proved wrong the quite stupid ideas put out there about how slow an EVO would be with $10k in mods. Owning a Mustang that costs $35,000 does not make you better than someone driving a $40k EVO X regardless of the difference in performance.

The guy driving the economy car based EVO X for $35,000 can easily purchase your car if he wants to. So at the end of the day it does not make the Mustang owner some genius among idiots.

honestly man you sound pissed off? I think 2 arguments got merged into one.

The idea that v6 stang is not a performance vehicle with how fast 10K will make an EVO?

Not sure anyone buying a current GT/V6 stang should feel "superior" to anyone from a monetary standpoint.

From a performance standpoint.. maybe?

Again the guy with the deepest pockets usually wins just have to consider what is the best starting point...and I am not advocating for either side(Stang vs EVO)

 

[germeezy1]

honestly man you sound pissed off? I think 2 arguments got merged into one.

The idea that v6 stang is not a performance vehicle with how fast 10K will make an EVO?

Not sure anyone buying a current GT/V6 stang should feel "superior" to anyone from a monetary standpoint.

From a performance standpoint.. maybe?

Again the guy with the deepest pockets usually wins just have to consider what is the best starting point...and I am not advocating for either side(Stang vs EVO)

Why would I be mad....I own neither car.....:banana::shrug:

In my opinion I do not consider a base V6 Mustang a performance car, and if I did I would have to consider a Camry , Accord, or Altima V6 a performance car.

 

[Black*Death]

Why would I be mad....I own neither car.....:banana::shrug:

In my opinion I do not consider a base V6 Mustang a performance car, and if I did I would have to consider a Camry , Accord, or Altima V6 a performance car.

Just your word choice made you sound angry but i guess not then

I disagree with the performance category....I think JROC was right as people "expect" Mustangs to be faster than econoboxes like camry, accord, altima.

Why buy a 2 door car with small backseat? I have also seen way too many V6's with exhaust, stickers, performance tires to not think a large portion of the population considers them a performance car.

is it a good performance car? 11-14 I think have helped the v6 a lot, but the older s197's with 4.0 liter engine and 210HP(?) really hurt that image...

I have seen some modded Maximas and Altimas but again people buy for fuel efficiency, 4 doors with a backseat that fits adults...NOT reasons at all to buy a a V6 Mustang.

You can debate how much of a performance car a V6 stang is, but, at it's core, it is designed to appeal to consumers that way IMHO

 

[germeezy1]

Just your word choice made you sound angry but i guess not then

I disagree with the performance category....I think JROC was right as people "expect" Mustangs to be faster than econoboxes like camry, accord, altima.

Why buy a 2 door car with small backseat? I have also seen way too many V6's with exhaust, stickers, performance tires to not think a large portion of the population considers them a performance car.

is it a good performance car? 11-14 I think have helped the v6 a lot, but the older s197's with 4.0 liter engine and 210HP(?) really hurt that image...

I have seen some modded Maximas and Altimas but again people buy for fuel efficiency, 4 doors with a backseat that fits adults...NOT reasons at all to buy a a V6 Mustang.

You can debate how much of a performance car a V6 stang is, but, at it's core, it is designed to appeal to consumers that way IMHO

The GT, Boss, and GT500 are performance cars. The V6 is a car marketed to be a sporty yet fuel efficient alternative to the V8 cars. If you consider the base Mustang V6 a performance car you must also consider cars like the Camry, Altima, and Accord V6 which produce similar numbers performance cars.

 

[Black*Death]

The GT, Boss, and GT500 are performance cars. The V6 is a car marketed to be a sporty yet fuel efficient alternative to the V8 cars. If you consider the base Mustang V6 a performance car you must also consider cars like the Camry, Altima, and Accord V6 which produce similar numbers performance cars.

The current V6 Stang is at 300 crank HP? I don't know numbers on the other 3 but would be surprised if greater than 275 crank HP. I would iamgine track numbers are better for the stang as well?


I didn't say it was a good performance car....Ford recently pushed fuel efficiency with the v6's as gas prices have climbed and the V6 was getting 20+ around town.

I would counter that Camry, Altima and Accord have been encroaching on V6 stangs with their sport packages...aka Sport sedans type claim.

they are trying to move away from the econobox model to appeal to more people

We are basically arguing what defines "performance"

 

[kaz109]

Incorrect. While not a world beater in terms of performance it's still a performance based car. It's about having a car that makes you feel good, and cool about yourself, and having fun because the vehicle has a sporty nature to it. If your sole purpose for buying a car is for it's practicality then there are way better options than any Mustang. If practicality is the only reason for the car then there would be no reason for Ford to sell, or for people to buy a RWD, 2 door, budget v6 coupe with an optional manual transmission. That doesn't make any sense. A Miata or FR-S is slow as shit compared to many performance cars, but they are still sport cars that are made to appeal to their owners senses, and for them to have fun driving. A v6 Mustang is to a v8 Mustang what a base Corvette is to a Z06/ZR1, and a base 911 is to a 911 Tubro/GT3, etc for people with less $. In it's purist forum Mustang is still about enjoying the way your car makes you feel, and it's image which some people find cool regardless of it's cylinder count, just in a much more budget forum and with less performance than a Vette or 911. Believe it or not not everyone wants or needs a 500 HP Vette or 550 HP GT500 to have fun driving their cars.



You never have anything good to say about a Ford. You constant argue against them.

Lets look at this thread for example:

First I do know a little bit about a EVO. I'm no expert, but I have a decent knowledge of them. Back in 03 when the EVO came out and hit our shores I was a big import guy and had a huge hard on for the car. I know the 4G63 is built like a tank, and has huge power potential. I know the EVO's chassis has an extra 200 welds over a base Lancer chassis. I know the Recaro's and MOMO steeringwheel feel wonderful as does it's shifter. I know it has extremely quick steering. I thought having 4 wheel Brembo brakes on a $35K performance car was the shit back in 03. I know a EVO has the potential to beat up on some every expensive/fast cars when modded correctly. Still you want to act like it's absurd that someone who throws $10K in mods at a EVO can lose in a roll race to a stock 662 BHP GT500 which excels in a roll race. It would be pathetic if a GT500 that can be optioned to almost $70K, and has 662 BHP from a big/efficient/blown v8 that's geared for the highway to just roll over every time a budget 4 cylinder car that geared short with only $10K in mods came challenging it in a high speed roll race. Know is it possible for a EVO VIII/IX to do that? I'd say yeah as a EVO is one of those cars that has the potential to be that good, but it better come correct as a new GT500 is too fast and powerful to half-step to. Not every EVO with $10K in performance mods is going to go out and beat up on cars as fast as a new GT500, but there are likely ones out there that will. I can say that you can throw $10K in performances mods at a Foxbody and go beat up on stock C6Z's in a roll, and I'm sure their are quite a few examples that will, but I guarantee you that not every Foxbody with $10K in mods running around the streets will take down a stock Z in a roll race.

In this thread you and several others started acting like it's inconceivable that a EVO with $10K in mods can lose to a new GT500 which is pretty ridiculous as you are great selling the GT500 short on just how fast it is. Sure some people started talking a bunch of smack about the EVO, but if I remember correctly it was only after y'all started bringing the GT500 down like it was BS that it could beat a budget performance car that's been around for 11 years with a factory 276 BHP from a turbo I4 in a high speed roll race when it's had $10K in mods thrown at it.

Like I said earlier it wouldn't have surprised me if the EVO took this victory, but it doesn't surprise me and it should surprise anyone else that it didn't either.

First of all I agree that not everybody needs a 500hp vette or GT500 to have fun, hence the BRZ/FR-S. It is a sports car that is a blast to drive. I still don't think you are understanding the difference in the class/category where are debating. Just because the V6 mustang is faster does not mean it is a sports car/performance car...hence why as poppacap and your article stated it has a rev limiter set at 114mph and not the eco tires.


Secondly about my " ford hate"...You can not quote one negative thing in this thread towards a base V6 mustang or a GT500, Your "look at this thread for example" rant did not state that I said one negative comment about a GT500. It said that I felt a Evo with 10k in performance mods shouldn't have a problem beating a stock GT500. So because I feel a well modded car should beat a stock car that is bashing the stock car? :shrug:

The reasoning behind your ford hater statement has zero logic behind it.

So did my last post make sense to you? I will say it again....

Vette= sports car
Viper= sports car
911= sports car
BRZ/FR-S sports car

Mustang GT and Shelby= Performance versions of the base Eco V6
Evo and Sti= performance versions of the base NA 4cyl
Camaro SS/1L3/ZR1= performance versions of the base Eco V6

Do you see the pattern? The argument you are making about the V6 times is not the point and base of what makes a sports car
Viper

 

[Jroc]

First of all I agree that not everybody needs a 500hp vette or GT500 to have fun, hence the BRZ/FR-S. It is a sports car that is a blast to drive. I still don't think you are understanding the difference in the class/category where are debating. Just because the V6 mustang is faster does not mean it is a sports car/performance car...hence why as poppacap and your article stated it has a rev limiter set at 114mph and not the eco tires.


Secondly about my " ford hate"...You can not quote one negative thing in this thread towards a base V6 mustang or a GT500, Your "look at this thread for example" rant did not state that I said one negative comment about a GT500. It said that I felt a Evo with 10k in performance mods shouldn't have a problem beating a stock GT500. So because I feel a well modded car should beat a stock car that is bashing the stock car? :shrug:

The reasoning behind your ford hater statement has zero logic behind it.

So did my last post make sense to you? I will say it again....

Vette= sports car
Viper= sports car
911= sports car
BRZ/FR-S sports car

Mustang GT and Shelby= Performance versions of the base Eco V6
Evo and Sti= performance versions of the base NA 4cyl
Camaro SS/1L3/ZR1= performance versions of the base Eco V6

Do you see the pattern? The argument you are making about the V6 times is not the point and base of what makes a sports car
Viper

The tire argument is a poor one. Even a base GT offers little 245 Eco-tires. It's a 420 HP performance car. The v6 Mustang is a budget performance car. It's not a practical FWD economy car, it's not a car that you want to ride 4 deep in, it's not a luxury car, it's a car that's made to appeal to people that don't need a world beater, but still want something sporty that's cheap and makes them feel cool and that they can use as a DD if they don't need to haul a bunch of stuff or people around in on a regular bases. If it's a budget car that isn't made for performance but still goes out and beats up on budget performance cars with a similar price tag if not a higher price tag then that doesn't say much about them does it? I'm sure when an insurance company labels a Mustang v6 it's labeled as either a sport car or performance car. At the heart of the car it's intent is to offer a sporty nature with respectable performance for the $ while still being practical enough that it can be used as a DD otherwise there is no purpose for a RWD v6 coupe that's much less all around practical than the typical mid-size, FWD I4/V6 sedans on the market.

You always stand up for all these other cars, and knock Mustangs when you seem to get the chance. Didn't you call the GT500 a one trick pony recently? Well it's not. That's the same shit the Honda boys were doing 10-15 years ago. Trying to knock the way a Mustang handles to try and make their cars look like they have something so much better on a Mustang. A new Mustang is a pretty damn respectable handling car. It's leaps and bounds better than it was 10/15 years ago. Ford has built several models that will pull a g or better on a skip pad, and turn some pretty respectable times on most road courses. These are not signs of a one trick pony. I'm not trying to sell them as Caymens or GTR's, but they will certainly hold their on against other budget platform cars in more than just a DR.

And on top of that you are so bent on acting like it's ludicrous that a EVO with $10K in mods don't beat a stock GT500 that it starts to seem obvious. Again a new GT500 is just to good to half-step to. It's not going to lay down for some budget performance car that was introduced 11 years ago with a 2 liter motor. I don't care how good a EVO is because in stock forum it's not nearly as fast as a new GT500, C6Z, new Viper, etc is in stock forum. That means it's going to have to put in work to compete. With $10K in mods is it possible for a EVO VIII to beat a new GT500 in a high speed roll race? Sure. Is it guaranteed? Hell no.

Lets remember that in the big picture of modding cars that $10K really isn't a lot of money. Sure it will buy you a large jump in performance when talking cars as good as a EVO, Terminator, GT500, Coyote, LSx cars, etc, but when modding cars you generally end up spending more than what you initially end up calculating what you think it's going to cost, especially if you can't do all your work yourself.

 

[germeezy1]

If you know what you are doing , and follow the template set by 100s of EVOs it is easy to spend $10k to build an EVO that will beat a GT500 from a roll or a dig. That is of course paying shop labor it can be done for far less if someone does their own labor.

One day some of you will open your eyes, and become car enthusiasts instead of Mustang enthusiasts only.

 

[thomas91169]

The car is capable of higher speeds. Its just a tire speed rating thing. Put some z rated tires on it and tune out the limiter and you are set. They are decent performers though.. average high 13sec et's. There are a few pretty quick ones too.. in the 12's and I believe a turbo V6 in the 10's.

Need to swap the driveshaft out as well. Theyll vibrate themselves to pieces past 115mph.

 

[rideorange812]

I personally know more than a few EVO's that would have no problem with a GT500, and even paying for a shop build one is about $12k into a 905 AWHP EVO 9 that will slap around a stock GT500. Someone is forgetting how much lighter an EVO 8 or 9 is, and just how long the 4G63 has been making easy big power. In some ways the 4G63 is like the small block Chevy of the import world, and it is easy to build an EVO 8, 9, or 10 to beat a GT500 with $10k in mods.

What I will never understand is why some car enthusiasts who barely know about their own car are always so quick to act like experts on a car they know nothing about?

A friend recently put up his 780 awhp Evo 8 for $20k TOTAL, and it would have no problem with a stock GT500.

dude my friend has a 2.3l stroker with 272s and a pt6262 on 30 psi making 550 and couldnt even beat some redneck in a fox 351 junkyard motor worn out nitto drag radials and a 100 shot... i have the vid if you dont believe me

 

[kaz109]

So Jroc I guess its normal for a performance car to come with a 112mph limiter huh, which explains why all the other performance cars I listed have that as well....

 

[korizmo]

Totally missed this thread. I will throw my experience in here.

I spent 10K in my 03 Evo 8 that I bought for 12K with 110K miles. First thing I did was tear it down and build the motor with Manley pistons and rods, cams, head port, balance shaft delete, blah blah. This was about 5K for labor, parts and all. I took out the motor and installed it from my garage. Next up was a twin clutch setup and a FP black turbo with exhaust, intercooler, and manifold along with the other little things. I was in another 5-6k - This was a reliable 11 sec car with 500+hp. I wasnt even beating on it running consistent mid 11's.

But i'm a CAR enthusiast and have built many different car in my 15 years of driving. I'm searching for a Saleen to build next while I mod my ST.

For EVO's there is a right way and a wrong way to build and 10sec evo for 10K - The wrong way usually contains the word EBAY

 

[srt2X]

dude my friend has a 2.3l stroker with 272s and a pt6262 on 30 psi making 550 and couldnt even beat some redneck in a fox 351 junkyard motor worn out nitto drag radials and a 100 shot... i have the vid if you dont believe me

Then your friend with a built motor and a t3 turbo kit on (30psi) got screwed somewhere or something is off. That build description you just gave and those numbers just don't add up. That evo should be over 600 easily.

Just for comparison

My 2.0 (non built) with all bolt ons,cams,stock frame turbo at 26 psi and all supporting mods on e85 puts me at 500.

 

[thomas91169]

dude my friend has a 2.3l stroker with 272s and a pt6262 on 30 psi making 550 and couldnt even beat some redneck in a fox 351 junkyard motor worn out nitto drag radials and a 100 shot... i have the vid if you dont believe me

Your friends evo is ****ed up and wasn't putting down 550 then. Or that "junkyard 351" is more than meets the eye.

It's that simple.