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3.5L Ecoboost Retro-Fit

Discussion in 'EcoBoost Engines' started by walt460, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    Ford Racing has announced that they will be selling the 3.5L V6 Ecoboost as a crate engine, in-stock now, but no "Control-Pak" install kit yet.

    Price for the engine, I have seen as high as $9000., down to about $6700. No price on the install kit as yet, but typically they run $1500 range. Not a cheap way to get 356HP/400ft-lbs.

    Timing for the Controls-Pak is late 2013 or early 2014, and right now any orders for the engine are being blocked, but they keep saying sales opening soon.

    Just so you know, the bellhousing pattern on the 3.5L RWD Ecoboost is unlike anything else Ford has ever sold, totally unique to this engine. And the FWD 3.5L Ecoboost is also totally unique and not the same as the RWD! Both are however the same as the 3.5LNA and the 3.7LNA Cyclone V6 engines. So, your transmission choices as of today are the Getrag MT82 6-speed manual, or the Ford 6R80 6-speed auto.

    Ford has built over 300K F150s with the 3.5L Ecoboost engine and 6R80 trans, so there are a lot of them out their in wrecking yards and prices are way cheaper than what Ford Racing wants.

    Anyone interested in retro fitting a 3.5L Ecoboost into something?
     
  2. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    I am thinking that a 1996-2012 Ranger with a 3.5L Ecoboost might make a nice "parts-getter" truck.
     
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  3. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    Some new information:
    - Quicktime is reportedly working on a bellhousing that will allow the 3.5/3.7L Cyclone engines to be mated to just about any RWD trans; T-5, T45, T56 etc.
    - If putting a F150 3.5L Eco into a ranger, the stock Ranger V6 mounts will work if you fab a simple adapter plate.
    - Aftermarket will have a small CAN bus module to take care of those CAN bus issues, should be out later this year, so using the Eco from a F150 can be done with the factory harnesses and PCM...... if you want the complete F150 Eco and 6-speed auto.
     
  4. EcoBoostF100

    EcoBoostF100 EcoBoosted F100 Established Member

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    I started on a retro fit of a 3.5L ECO into a '66 F100 a bit over a year ago.
    Ford told me nearly 3yrs ago they would be doing the Stand alone computer setup. They have been using them for years but just will not release them.

    Aftermarket ones are avail for the tune of around 11,000.00!

    I am using stock F150 computer in mine. Once the truck is up and going I will then do a bit of tweaking.

    I was just looking earlier and found 25+ Eco trucks being sold for parts.

    I bought an entire truck that had 6030 miles on it for only 3250.00!
    Most likely will be able to get half that back in selling of parts.
     
  5. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    You can make the stock PCM work, you just need to connect up all the other modules that are on the PCM's CAN bus.
     
  6. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    OK, got a lot more information about putting a 2011-2014 F150 3.5L Ecoboost engine into another vehicle, Mustang, Ranger, or Hot Rod. Anyone interested?

    For example, the F150 3.5L Ecoboost at it's widest point, is 28-1/2" wide, across the turbos. This means it will fit in a 1979-2014 Mustang, 1985 or newer Ranger, and a lot of other vehicles.
     
  7. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    keep info coming :)
     
  8. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    Well also, the oil pan on a F150 3.5L Ecoboost is the same parts as used on the 2011-2014 3.7L Mustang......... so the F150's engine should clear the steering rack on any 1979-2014 Mustang, particularly if a tubular cross member is used.

    The F150's 6R80 auto trans is physically identical to the one used in the 2011-2014 mustang, so for sure it will package in those cars and very likely clear the tunnel on all 1979 & newer Mustangs as well as 1985 & up Rangers and likely a ton of other cars/trucks.

    The width of the 3.5L Ecoboost across the heads is only 22", so no issue with vacuum brake boosters. Ecoboost F150s have a vacuum pump, any swap with vacuum brakes will need one as well.

    The turbos exhaust exits are such that making a H-pipe for most any installation would be very much like a NA V8.

    The F150's Ecoboost PCM has 2 connectors. One is for the engine and transmission wiring, and the other handles power, ground, connections to the vehicle (CAN Bus, ignition switch, etc) and the vehicle mounted sensors (MAFS ACTs, etc). This means that you can use the stock PCM and engine/trans harness and not touch the wiring in one connector, and just make all the wiring modifications for the vehicle interface via the other connector's harness.

    All the Direct Injection stuff happens on the engine, there is a camshaft driven high pressure fuel pump, but the fuel supply from the tank is typical EFI. Just use the F150's in-tank pump and it's Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) and connect that to the PCM just as in the F150. Nothing special on the vehicle side of fuel delivery. 87 Octane too!

    Ford Racing does plan to sell a Controls Pak for the F150 3.5L Ecoboost, and very likely this will be for manual transmission only. The only manual trans that bolts to it is the one used on the 2011-2014 3.7L. The bellhousing pattern to totally unique, not like any other Ford engine, just the 3.5L EB and 3.7L use it.

    More?
     
  9. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    nice write up. but little problem. I know that if you swapped a 5.0 coyote with the factory mustang control pack/PCM the PCM would shut off because of it being so smart that if one reading of the PCM does not read a certain calibration the PCM would shut off or go to limp mode. this is why ford made the control pack for swaps with the coyote motor. now the coyote uses a copperhead PCM but I don't know if the truck eco boost or even the truck 5.0 could use factory PCM with out the issues that the mustang PCM would have. I swap 6.2l's in older mustangs, crown vic's and trucks but I don't even bother with factory PCM for the 6.2l I use 2000-03 PCM for the swaps with new custom wire harness for the sensors and stuff, im not a tuner I build engines but I have a guy next my shop he is a tuner I get information from him about computer's but I may be wrong about the PCM's i was told the 5.0 copperhead PCM is a nightmare and not worth the time to swap because of interface calibrations.
     
  10. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    Americansteel,

    OK, let me explain. The 5.0L Coyote engine Controls Pak sold by Ford Racing does come with a Copperhead module and the software in that module is "locked" or "blocked", meaning is is very very difficult to change.

    However, Production 2011-2014 5.0L Mustang 5.0L engines also come with a Copperhead control module, and SCT (and others)
    makes programming software that will allow owners to make changes to the existing production calibration.

    Now if you take that production 2011-2014 5.0L Coyote engine out of the Mustang, it is VERY difficult to make it run correctly, it either does not run or it runs in a default mode that really limits performance. All 2011 and newer Mustangs and F150s have a "vehicle integrated" powertrain control system. If all the correct modules and sensors from within the whole vehicle (air bag, ABS, stability control, etc.) are not present and functioning correctly, the PCM does not work or works with limited function. And even if you do connect everything up, if the readings do not match expected values, you fail. Very difficult, but just another challenge for us die-hard guys.

    And you are correct, the Ecoboost PCM is also copperhead based, but it is a different design and is made by Bosch due to the Direct Injection system being used (or so I have been told.) As far as the "vehicle integrated" control system, it functions the same and some F150s have 11 to 14 modules interconnected.

    Let's just say that there will be a solution coming soon that makes a lot of these engine swaps a lot easier, and allows you to use the factory PCM and engine wiring. That is why I have started passing along information about swapping the F150 Ecoboost into other vehicles; the control electronics issues for the Ecoboost will soon have solution.
     
  11. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    every thing you written is what i said. ----- "Let's just say that there will be a solution coming soon that makes a lot of these engine swaps a lot easier, and allows you to use the factory PCM and engine wiring. That is why I have started passing along information about swapping the F150 Eco boost into other vehicles; the control electronics issues for the Eco boost will soon have solution." oh yeah??? ^_^ please indulge me with some more info about this little subject if so that would help me a lot with using factory or like 6.2L PCM for swaps, although swapping the 6.2l with older ford EDIS PCM's is not hard it's quite affordable for all people to do just a new harness with out ECT sensor.
     
  12. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    I do not know about your 6.2L system, never looked at one, but if it does not have camshaft timing control, you are likely not giving up any performance by using a pre-2005 EEC V system. That should be a pretty cost-effective solution even if you need to buy a custom harness for the EEC V.

    All I can tell you is that there will be a solution to allow anyone to swap a F150 Ecoboost engine with it's 6R80 onto just about any vehicle coming to market soon. One requirement for using the factory PCM system will be that the turbos stay mounted in the original F150 locations, and that the induction system retain some critical characteristics. These two requirements limit applications to those where the engine compartment has the room required. But, the good news is that a lot of cars/trucks do have enough room as the engine related dimensions are not as big as you might suspect.

    I am just trying to get guys aware that this system is coming and get feedback as to which vehicle applications are of the most interest as a custom plug-&-play vehicle harness will be required.
     
  13. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    factory 95-04 mustang PCM's even crown vic and Ford trucks. the swaps are straight forward and simple. the 6.2l does not use an ECT sensor so the calibration for ECT is shut off. a new engine harness is made so that the factory 4.6l or 5.4l PCM and sensors can be retained to allow factory functions. the problem that exists is the factory 6.2l cam sensors and crank sensors would not work correctly with the factory before 05 computers. for $ 300 you get a new harness. 4.6/5.4 factory crank and cam sensors stay. new crank trigger wheel. and a CNC cam sprocket for driver side camshaft.
     
  14. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    americansteel,

    Ok, I understand what you are doing now. Some questions; 1)The 6.2L has variable cam timing feature, are you using that? 2)What transmission are you using behind the 6.2L for these swaps? 3) Would your customers be interested in using the 6R80 that comes behind the 6.2L?
     
  15. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    no VVT does not get used. factory transmissions are used 4.6l/5.4l share 5.0/6.2 trans bolt pattern. as for the 6r80 i havent seen any of the guys use that trans. i know superduty PSD and 6.2 use same trans but the raptor and F150 i do not know.
     
  16. lsittingbull

    lsittingbull Member Established Member

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    I would love to have an 3.5 eco in my 99 ranger. And americansteel that's also a great idea with the 6.2, I had thought about buying a crown vic just to stick a 6.2 in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  17. americansteel

    americansteel Banned

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    i was wondering bout when you would join. i havent forgot about you. P71s are cheap so are EBAY and junkyard parts for the 6.2l

    search eco-boost ranger on your home page i believe some guy did a swap in a 2001 4x4 ranger.
     
  18. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    If you find a link to that 2001 Ranger 4x4 Ecoboost swap, please post. I can not seem to find it.

    Right now, if you want to swap a low-mile F150 3.5L Ecoboost and 6R80 auto into a Ranger or Mustang, it is going to cost just under $10K for all the parts. That is about $6800 for the F150 drop-out kit of parts, plus around $3000 for; a air-to-air intecooler, larger radiator, oil cooler, trans cooler, driveshaft, Vehicle interface harness and PCM reflash, custom H-pipe, power steering pump mounting kit, trans mount mods, and engine mount mods (and/or tubular K-member for Mustangs).
     
  19. EcoBoostF100

    EcoBoostF100 EcoBoosted F100 Established Member

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    I bought a complete low mile ecoboost f150 for 3250.00 at auction. I can sell parts and get half of that back.
     
  20. walt460

    walt460 SN95 Judge Established Member

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    EcoBoostF100, great to hear from you, hope you are overcoming those health issues!

    You got a super deal on that Ecoboost F150, great price. I have been watching auctions around Vegas area and I have not seen a running truck sell for under $6500.

    I needed one that would start and lot drive, so it was easier (and cheaper) to transport. I needed to be able to make sure all the powertrain related electrical systems worked properly to insure I had a strong basis for creating a street rod around the Ecoboost engine using the factory PCM and wiring. So I knew I was paying a lot ($9800).

    When I am done, I hope to sell the frame, axles and suspension, and some interior bits to reduce my costs.
     

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