306ci vs 331ci vs 347ci ???

[RussZTT]

I'd say if you're wanting to stay 302 based, go with a 331. Always go with a mild stroker if it's going to be a street car. Over 10 yrs ago my coupe with a bone stock shortblock, TFS High ports, carb and a C-4 I went 11.74@117 with a nitrous cam. That run was NA with WAY to big of exhaust.

However, if you want a good base then like mentioned, go with a mild 351 stroker.

 

[blake_colvin]

you're all over the place - you want a car that does everything (strip, cornering, and street) on a budget. you want a/c but a gutted interior. you want 11.99 N/A but then talk about nitrous. you want a built motor/trans/rear/suspension car to last 50-75K...on a budget.

first, figure out what you really want, and concentrate on that goal. 11.99 is going to require a 6pt, so if the street manners are more important to you, start rethinking everything. is 100lbs of A/C really worth it in a caged, gutted, built T5 car with a wild cam?

i was waiting for someone to call me out on this..

id like to build a nice all round car intended to be driven to the track occasionally. i want suspension yes, i want 11.99 n/a yes. i want ac for the summer drives in the twisties yes, i want the capability to run nitrous at the track or on the street yes.

as far as the mods i know im doing here is a run down:
31 spline axels with gears 3.90 or 4.10
built t-5
tubular k-member with lowering springs, poly urethane bushings, sway bars
gutted interior with two racing seats.
375whp

as far as a cage goes im not planning or figuring in cost for a cage as that will be the very last thing i put in the car.
nitrous will also be one of the last things i put on the car as well.

price guide im trying to follow
2000-3500 for a notch, barely running and body in ok shape
4k engine and machine work hopefully
1500-2500 for nicely built t-5
On the high side of things listed thats right at 10k
on the low side of things listed thats right at 7500
1500 axels and gears
thats 11500 or 9000
2000 suspension
thats 13500 or 11000

which brings me to my op.
hopefuly build a car under 10k

that was stated before half my research/homework was done so please forgive me for jumping around all over the place
i know what id like to get from the car and i also know at the price i stated im not going to be able to have it all but im certainly going to try lol
this thread was started based off 3 diff options of a 306, 331, and 347 engine
i am now considering a 351, all this thread was and is for an idea of options and whatnot and maybe it will help someone else make there decision one day as well.

:beer:

 

[blake_colvin]

I'd say if you're wanting to stay 302 based, go with a 331. Always go with a mild stroker if it's going to be a street car. Over 10 yrs ago my coupe with a bone stock shortblock, TFS High ports, carb and a C-4 I went 11.74@117 with a nitrous cam. That run was NA with WAY to big of exhaust.

However, if you want a good base then like mentioned, go with a mild 351 stroker.

i like the 331 option alot actually just never seen many set ups.
how much hp was you putting down through the c-4 and was that a locked or unlocked converter stall or nor stall (i assume at least a 2800 stall considering the cam.)

 

[RussZTT]

i like the 331 option alot actually just never seen many set ups.
how much hp was you putting down through the c-4 and was that a locked or unlocked converter stall or nor stall (i assume at least a 2800 stall considering the cam.)

I never had it on the dyno to be honest. I had a 4,500 stall. I did end up spraying and it had a constant 1.39 60ft, 6.4@111 in the 8th but ran out of gear before the 1,000ft mark (because the stock shortblock couldn't handle the rpms).

 

[blake_colvin]

I never had it on the dyno to be honest. I had a 4,500 stall. I did end up spraying and it had a constant 1.39 60ft, 6.4@111 in the 8th but ran out of gear before the 1,000ft mark (because the stock shortblock couldn't handle the rpms).

dang, thats a pretty impressive 60ft. im just trying to run mt et streets and lay down a 1.6-1.7 60ft and a 11.99 or better n/a.
im curious at what rpm your redlined. i was thinking around 6200-6500 but im not sure what will be safe using the stock block

 

[RussZTT]

dang, thats a pretty impressive 60ft. im just trying to run mt et streets and lay down a 1.6-1.7 60ft and a 11.99 or better n/a.
im curious at what rpm your redlined. i was thinking around 6200-6500 but im not sure what will be safe using the stock block

Thanks. With those 60fts the block only lasted 4 passes . The crank walked little bit and the rear main started leaking but I I drove it onto the trailer. With the gears I had ( to much) I was shifting at 7,400 which is WAY to high hence why it fell on it's face before the 1K mark. When it ran out of gear the RPMs stopped climbing, car just stayed at the speed it was at and wasn't going any faster. Those 4 passes were all exactly the same... 10.21@129. It would of went 9.80's for sure im guessing around 138mph if I had a better gear in it AND if the motor stayed together :lol:

 

[Dark_5.0]

Buy a car that has everything already done. My Foxbody has new paint, handles and stops like a Vette, runs mid 11's with a 1.53 60ft @120+mph, has A/C, heater, full interior and can be driven anywhere. My asking price would be about 10-11K or so and I have put over twice that in it.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/garage.php?do=viewvehicle&vehicle_id=1012

 

[ModularFan]

Buy a car that has everything already done. My Foxbody has new paint, handles and stops like a Vette, runs mid 11's with a 1.53 60ft @120+mph, has A/C, heater, full interior and can be driven anywhere. My asking price would be about 10-11K or so and I have put over twice that in it.

Dark_5.0's Garage :: 5.slow

Some people like the idea of calling it their own. Me personally I rather build a car myself rather then having a car already built, atleast with a car you built yourself you know what's what and know if there's any issues, as opposed to someone with an already built car, there could be something ready to go and once you buy it your SOL. not that I am saying it always happen's I just like that security of my own.

that's the way Id go with things.

 

[Dark_5.0]

Some people like the idea of calling it their own. Me personally I rather build a car myself rather then having a car already built, atleast with a car you built yourself you know what's what and know if there's any issues, as opposed to someone with an already built car, there could be something ready to go and once you buy it your SOL. not that I am saying it always happen's I just like that security of my own.

that's the way Id go with things.

I understand that outlook. I build all my cars but you get a lot more for your dollar buying a turn key car and then you can redo things as you see fit.

There is over 8k in my rolling chasis not including the price of the car. It adds up so quick!!

 

[blake_colvin]

Thanks. With those 60fts the block only lasted 4 passes . The crank walked little bit and the rear main started leaking but I I drove it onto the trailer. With the gears I had ( to much) I was shifting at 7,400 which is WAY to high hence why it fell on it's face before the 1K mark. When it ran out of gear the RPMs stopped climbing, car just stayed at the speed it was at and wasn't going any faster. Those 4 passes were all exactly the same... 10.21@129. It would of went 9.80's for sure im guessing around 138mph if I had a better gear in it AND if the motor stayed together :lol:

Thats pretty intense if i go with the stock 5.0 block i doubt i go passed the stock red line and ill never launch the car that hard either.
the 351 though is looking better and better for reliability and capability

Buy a car that has everything already done. My Foxbody has new paint, handles and stops like a Vette, runs mid 11's with a 1.53 60ft @120+mph, has A/C, heater, full interior and can be driven anywhere. My asking price would be about 10-11K or so and I have put over twice that in it.

Dark_5.0's Garage :: 5.slow

thanks but no thanks, why you point out a good idea, im looking for a notch and ive already had a few cars that was already done and im looking to build my own problems this time (my first real build) so im excited to start but want to do all my homework first.
:beer:

Some people like the idea of calling it their own. Me personally I rather build a car myself rather then having a car already built, atleast with a car you built yourself you know what's what and know if there's any issues, as opposed to someone with an already built car, there could be something ready to go and once you buy it your SOL. not that I am saying it always happen's I just like that security of my own.

that's the way Id go with things.

your right some cars are really ready to go under 10k but for those of us who had bought a car with more than the norm done to it has prob found someone elses problems which is not always the case but it does happen and besides the real pleasure of being a car nut is getting in on the work yourself.

 

[truebluedevil02]

11.99 is going to require a 6pt,

you dont need a cage till 11.49. You can run 11.50 all day WITHOUT a cage.

 

[blake_colvin]

you dont need a cage till 11.49. You can run 11.50 all day WITHOUT a cage.

I think in florida and alabama they dont require a cage untill 7.50 in the 1/8 but if you go faster than 8.0 1/8 you have to have a helmet.

but dont quote me

 

[Dark_5.0]

8.60 for a helmet and 7.49 for a cage at any IHRA certified track.

 

[truebluedevil02]

I think in florida and alabama they dont require a cage untill 7.50 in the 1/8 but if you go faster than 8.0 1/8 you have to have a helmet.

but dont quote me

the 2 tracks ive always raced at require a helmet for anything under 14.00 in the 1/4, but no cage till 11.49. I dont race 1/8 mile so I dont know the restrictions for that.

 

[blake_colvin]

ive maybe went down the track 3 times with 3 diff cars and none of them ran faster than 8.8 in the 1/8 and i never been to a 1/4 mile track

but back on topic.. if i use a 351 and want to stay efi can i use the system off the old 5.0?

 

[truebluedevil02]

ive maybe went down the track 3 times with 3 diff cars and none of them ran faster than 8.8 in the 1/8 and i never been to a 1/4 mile track

but back on topic.. if i use a 351 and want to stay efi can i use the system off the old 5.0?

yes, all you have to change is when ordering your intake manifold you have to buy one for a 5.8 NOT a 5.0. Most manufacturers make a 5.8L version of there intakes so its not a problem. I know Holley, edelbrock, and TFS have 5.8L intakes.

For your specific goals I wou build an engine as follows.

351 block bored to 357 (your gunna need to change pistons anyways)
stock football rods, stock crank
forged pistons that will give you around 10:1 compression
moroso/Canton oil pan (need an after market for the swap IIRC)
Your heads, cam, and intake are where you decide the power that the motor will make. That in mind I would PROBABLY go with the following.
Edelbrock Victor JR heads (they out flow the AFR 185 and are a good amount cheaper)
Holley 5.8L intake manifold
A medium size cam (talk to a GOOD engine builder and ask there opinion on the stats)
75mm throttle body
big MAF
electronic water pump (there pricey, $400ish but they will save you nearly 15hp)
Electric fan and upgraded radiator
And id finish off with some basic 1 3/4-1 7/8 long tubes with duel 2.5 inch exhaust dumping at the rear axle through a GOOD set of mufflers.

The beauty of this is you dont have to come up with everything RIGHT NOW. You can change from a stock water pump at any time, you can also beef up the exhaust later on if your already running a basic exhaust set up. The Throttle body can be upgraded later on as well. If you can come across a stock 5.8l intake then you can use it for a little while. Keeping this in mind will save you close to $2000-$2500 up front but still allow you to get a running/driving car, granted it will not make the power you want with a stock intake, TB, exhaust and water pump BUT you will once you get these things replaced and it will run a good amount better than a stock 5.0 even with those things. Also saving the money up front will allow you to afford some better parts when doing the original build, ie, better bearings, maybe a set of AFR 205 heads (optimum for this build IMO), custom grind cam(also best bet), etc. At any rate I would spring for APR studs just to be safe. I would also do the exhaust up front cuz long tube install + motor in the car = SUCK:bash:

 

[blake_colvin]

That deff sounds like a 400+whp engine depending on tranny. I also appreciate the information. i will be doing some more research on heads and cams and of course the intake manifolds.

ebay and craigslist can be ones best friend when it comes to cheap parts that work, but it requires months of watching both for something good to pop up.

idk if you know this but im currently in iraq, i prob wont get back untill march 12. with saying that i have plenty of time to search and buy if i find the right deal.

ill always be open to suggestions and up to reading any articles to gain more knowledge
so keep it coming and im sure ill have more questions..

things im counting on doing 351 block some decent heads re-worked, decent intake mani long tubes with h pipe prob bbk just a personel favorite. larger tb, 40lb injectors, newer fuel pump with kenne bell boost a pump. wicked lopeing cam package, custom driveshaft, 31 spline axels prob 3.90 gears. and hopefully a beefy t-5 and clutch.

put that all in a decent driving car that i bought either barely running or as a roller.

hopefully ill be around 7-8k for all that if i can continue to search for parts and doing research and my homework.

 

[truebluedevil02]

That deff sounds like a 400+whp engine depending on tranny. I also appreciate the information. i will be doing some more research on heads and cams and of course the intake manifolds.

ebay and craigslist can be ones best friend when it comes to cheap parts that work, but it requires months of watching both for something good to pop up.

idk if you know this but im currently in iraq, i prob wont get back untill march 12. with saying that i have plenty of time to search and buy if i find the right deal.

ill always be open to suggestions and up to reading any articles to gain more knowledge
so keep it coming and im sure ill have more questions..

things im counting on doing 351 block some decent heads re-worked, decent intake mani long tubes with h pipe prob bbk just a personel favorite. larger tb, 40lb injectors, newer fuel pump with kenne bell boost a pump. wicked lopeing cam package, custom driveshaft, 31 spline axels prob 3.90 gears. and hopefully a beefy t-5 and clutch.

put that all in a decent driving car that i bought either barely running or as a roller.

hopefully ill be around 7-8k for all that if i can continue to search for parts and doing research and my homework.

Not a problem, i enjoy helping people out. I at one point didn't know jack about 5.0/5.8 cars and I have a lot of knowledgeable people to thank for my education over the years. So i just like to give others the help i was once given.

According to my list in the post above you should be right around $5200 for everything brand new so if you buy some used exhaust, TB, intake, etc parts you will save a good amount of $$$. My 408 stroker made 429whp with 12.5:1 compression, big cam, and vic jr heads. The only reason it wasn't near or over 500whp was the auto trans, steep gears and the vic jr heads are just to small to max out an engine of that size. I'm sure the vic jr's will fit a mid 350 CI engine GREAT.

Also, I just dynoed my new H/C/I/E coupe this morning. Mods are as follows.

Roush 185cc aluminum heads (no port work)
F cam
Edelbrock Victor EFI intake
70mm TB
inner fender CAI
Mac shorty headers
catless Hpipe
mufflers W/ stock cat back
World class T5 trans
Spec stage 2 clutch
electric fan
4:10 gears
smog delete
RUNNING THE AC ON THE DYNO:bash:

With these mods it made 237whp and 263wtq in 84* weather with 34% humidity running mid 12:1 AF ratio with the AC ON. The "tune" is nothing more than adding timing till the HP maxed out. No computer chip tuning what so ever, bone stock computer. Granted these are "cheap" heads, and a really small cam and exhaust but you get an idea of what a "budget" H/C/I/E 302 can do(not much).

 

[blake_colvin]

Not a problem, i enjoy helping people out. I at one point didn't know jack about 5.0/5.8 cars and I have a lot of knowledgeable people to thank for my education over the years. So i just like to give others the help i was once given.

According to my list in the post above you should be right around $5200 for everything brand new so if you buy some used exhaust, TB, intake, etc parts you will save a good amount of $$$. My 408 stroker made 429whp with 12.5:1 compression, big cam, and vic jr heads. The only reason it wasn't near or over 500whp was the auto trans, steep gears and the vic jr heads are just to small to max out an engine of that size. I'm sure the vic jr's will fit a mid 350 CI engine GREAT.

Also, I just dynoed my new H/C/I/E coupe this morning. Mods are as follows.

Roush 185cc aluminum heads (no port work)
F cam
Edelbrock Victor EFI intake
70mm TB
inner fender CAI
Mac shorty headers
catless Hpipe
mufflers W/ stock cat back
World class T5 trans
Spec stage 2 clutch
electric fan
4:10 gears
smog delete
RUNNING THE AC ON THE DYNO:bash:

With these mods it made 237whp and 263wtq in 84* weather with 34% humidity running mid 12:1 AF ratio with the AC ON. The "tune" is nothing more than adding timing till the HP maxed out. No computer chip tuning what so ever, bone stock computer. Granted these are "cheap" heads, and a really small cam and exhaust but you get an idea of what a "budget" H/C/I/E 302 can do(not much).

That sounds good man, im going to continue putting together my parts list and continue looking for a cheap notch.

as far as the h/c/i/e 302 goes... thats sad, the most ive seen on a 302 was right around 280whp.. while my 97 cobra n/a with all bolt ons to include imrc deletes and about 120k miles made 286whp, it was very fun to drive and im sure at almost 600lbs less the 5.0 would scream for 280whp it still wouldnt be impressive to me.

 

[truebluedevil02]

That sounds good man, im going to continue putting together my parts list and continue looking for a cheap notch.

as far as the h/c/i/e 302 goes... thats sad, the most ive seen on a 302 was right around 280whp.. while my 97 cobra n/a with all bolt ons to include imrc deletes and about 120k miles made 286whp, it was very fun to drive and im sure at almost 600lbs less the 5.0 would scream for 280whp it still wouldnt be impressive to me.

yea for the kind of heads and the small cam, and lack of computer tune the numbers arn't half bad. But its about perfect for the turbo kit im putting on it this fall, should have no problem hitting 500whp on a low boost setting.