331 List with questions

[from6to8]

Ok Gents I'm going to go ahead after I get my garage done, I'm just going to do a 331. I've decided that I'm going to climb up the ladder in HP and since I want a few different cars set up different ways mechanically as well as cosmetically, I'm going to do the 331 first. I'll likely end up with 3 cars, last one being the Termi. Just a nice weekend driving streetcar for this setup

Going to re-use more than likely:

Edel performer rpm 2
TF 170's
24 lb injectors
75 mm maf
oem dizzy
shorty headers
x pipe
cold air pipe

Talking to builder last night, this is the list we came up with:

Scat 3.250 crank with 5.4 rod
Scat I beam rods

different set of polylocks for the 1.6 FR roller rockers ( Had the rockers since about 04. In 2014 and with limited miles put on since then, took heads to shop and had new springs, locks, and retainers put on due to a broken spring on no. 2 cylinder.) Just texted him as to rather new polylocks would be necessary

pistons ( he mentioned last night which ones)
6 qt Canton more than likely
28 oz balancer ( he mentioned a fluid would be excellent but just looked up prices so might not get one
custom grind cam that he will do
ARP main studs
157 or 164 T 28 oz flywheel????

I guess other things needed would be an oil pump
what else am I missing?

Labor he said would be anywhere from $7-1400 but probably more in the middle.

Anything else I'm missing or need to know, enlighten me.

 

[Sluggie24]

Sounds like a nice setup. Could add a base supercharger kit to really have a fun street car though! If staying NA what compression are you thinking?

 

[from6to8]

Sounds like a nice setup. Could add a base supercharger kit to really have a fun street car though! If staying NA what compression are you thinking?

to be honest i'm going to do 3 cars total. The other will be an SN95 cobra body with a 400 W and the 3rd will be a built Terminator. As for Hp in order i should achieve 350-370 with the 331, at least 500 with the 400W, and the Terminator about 670. I only want to have to deal with one SC car and so I'll just leave the other 2 NA.
To be honest I'm not really that familiar when it comes to compression in the sense to tell someone a certain compression I'm after. I guess I can always learn more in that area. Hp and torque and what I will use the car for yes. Nice weekend street drivers will be all they will be for , no track.

 

[99GTMichael]

I just built a 331 28 oz external balance flat tappet for my '69 Ranchero. Break-in is on Friday! I went with an Eagle kit. 4.030" Mahle flat top 7cc relief pistons, forged Eagle I-beams, cast Eagle crank 3.250" stroke. Make sure you check the clearance of the rods to the bottom of the cylinders. I ended up having to notch all 8.

 

[from6to8]

I just built a 331 28 oz external balance flat tappet for my '69 Ranchero. Break-in is on Friday! I went with an Eagle kit. 4.030" Mahle flat top 7cc relief pistons, forged Eagle I-beams, cast Eagle crank 3.250" stroke. Make sure you check the clearance of the rods to the bottom of the cylinders. I ended up having to notch all 8.

Ok sounds good.

Will i possibly need new lifters?
oil pump?

and which tooth flywheel 157 or 164?

 

[Sluggie24]

OP talk to your engine builder about the compression ratio. Since it will be a NA engine you can go higher and get some good power out of it.

 

[99GTMichael]

Ok sounds good.

Will i possibly need new lifters?
oil pump?

and which tooth flywheel 157 or 164?

If you're going to be into the short block, personally I would replace the oil pump without hesitation and the pickup screen as well. Deepens how wild you want to get with it and how deep your pockets are. If you do get a pump, make sure to check the clearances in the pump.

Lifters, it depends. I haven't worked with a roller 5.0 to be honest. I understand that quality roller lifters are technically reusable on new cams.

Push-rods become relevant if you do a bunch of machine work to the deck, head and radically change the cam. If you get into the head and start messing with stem height and whatnot, but you do have roller rockers with poly-locks I see. I recommend checking for new push-rod length if you're doing a build.

Can't really comment on the teeth for the flexplate/flywheel. Really depends a lot on the application. I am pretty much only familiar with the older style 28oz external balance early applications. I used a 157 tooth for my early C4 automatic application. I understand that Foxbodies and possibly later? are 164 tooth 50oz external balance.

Balance is another factor to consider for your engine.

Do NOT read any of this as the gospel. I am just a college student and I know enough to know that I don't really know anything. I recommend really speaking with your builder if you trust them. They will have the information you need and the means to get you sorted out. However, I can tell you that building an engine gets out of hand quickly... lol.

 

[from6to8]

If you're going to be into the short block, personally I would replace the oil pump without hesitation and the pickup screen as well. Deepens how wild you want to get with it and how deep your pockets are. If you do get a pump, make sure to check the clearances in the pump.

Lifters, it depends. I haven't worked with a roller 5.0 to be honest. I understand that quality roller lifters are technically reusable on new cams.

Push-rods become relevant if you do a bunch of machine work to the deck, head and radically change the cam. If you get into the head and start messing with stem height and whatnot, but you do have roller rockers with poly-locks I see. I recommend checking for new push-rod length if you're doing a build.

Can't really comment on the teeth for the flexplate/flywheel. Really depends a lot on the application. I am pretty much only familiar with the older style 28oz external balance early applications. I used a 157 tooth for my early C4 automatic application. I understand that Foxbodies and possibly later? are 164 tooth 50oz external balance.

Balance is another factor to consider for your engine.

Do NOT read any of this as the gospel. I am just a college student and I know enough to know that I don't really know anything. I recommend really speaking with your builder if you trust them. They will have the information you need and the means to get you sorted out. However, I can tell you that building an engine gets out of hand quickly... lol.

Yes overall he and I will iron everything out. I'm just doing some homework and asking questions on my own. A few of the questions I had here some others on another forum have chimed in so I have most of them complete.

Thanks

 

[from6to8]

OP talk to your engine builder about the compression ratio. Since it will be a NA engine you can go higher and get some good power out of it.

he said for pump gas we'll be around 10 to 10.5

 

[Sluggie24]

10.5:1 compression should be no problem on pump gas with those heads.

 

[from6to8]

10.5:1 compression should be no problem on pump gas with those heads.

Alrighty

 

[from6to8]

He also suggested 4 hole injectors vs standard 1 hole. Gotta see if it's direct plug n play

 

[StalkerStang]

They have adapters for the injectors, easy.

I know your reusing a lot of stuff you have but imo, those heads are small. I would run something in the 190's at least. If the guy your using doesn't do the cam, look up Ed Curtis with FTI, he is setting up my heads, cam and valvetrain package for my 427w fox....

 

[from6to8]

They have adapters for the injectors, easy.

I know your reusing a lot of stuff you have but imo, those heads are small. I would run something in the 190's at least. If the guy your using doesn't do the cam, look up Ed Curtis with FTI, he is setting up my heads, cam and valvetrain package for my 427w fox....

I'm going to use the EV6 and they will plug up using the factory harness.

He grinds his own cams but if he wasn't I'd sure let Ed do it.

I will ponder maybe doing that and just selling my heads. Since I'm doing a 400 W and will get a Termi as well,I might can deal with a 350-370 hp 331 that's just going to be a nice street car that I may play around with occasionally.

I expect 500 hp out of the 400 W and 670ish out of the Termi

 

[StalkerStang]

500 is easy from 400+ cubes... just don't skimp on the heads and intake, let it breathe.

I'm shooting for close to 700 with my 427...

 

[from6to8]

500 is easy from 400+ cubes... just don't skimp on the heads and intake, let it breathe.

I'm shooting for close to 700 with my 427...

nice nice. I test drove that 04 Termi a guy was selling on this site as a matter of fact. 675 on 93 and 724 on e85. I drove it and got down on it but didn't kill it. Then when he got back in he nailed it and I surely felt the pull lol. We drove it on 93 by the way.

Yeah for the 400 I'm going with either AFR 205's or the TF 11 R. More than likely the Box R intake

 

[Stopsign32v]

Your head choices are very small and will kill your power output NA

205s for 331cid
225/240 high ports for 400cid

 

[from6to8]

Your head choices are very small and will kill your power output NA

205s for 331cid
225/240 high ports for 400cid

Ok break down the power output.

Power output on top end, for say the track? Car won't be a track car and mostly normal driving but playing around as I choose to on the street sometimes. I drive my cars normal within the relms of not getting a ticket and anything crazy so I pick and choose. Now don't get me wrong, I let folks know often times " Yes I'm driving a stang " I'm sure as most stang guys probably do sometimes but under normal circumstances I love being in a stang and just the sound/tone of it all.
If I'm going to lose 20 hp or so or less I don't think I'd be worried since I will have 3 stangs by the time it's all said and done more than likely. I will drive all 3 and give them chances to be on the road. When my other 95 got hit in the rear 2 yrs ago I bought another 95. I was just going to try and sell the wrecked car as a whole and build a 400 for the other car. I've always wanted more than one stang and the past 2 wks I said hell just go ahead and pull the motor out of the other one , go 331 and use most of the components I have on it already.

As for the 400, and I just text my boy to confirm cause I think , actually he just confirmed he has 205s on his 408 and it's a beast. 511 rwhp and so our setups will be similiar and even if I broke 500 I'd be happy. Same thing with it for me, the car won't see the track.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Ok well if your boy says that then go for it.

 

[Sluggie24]

I think the smaller heads mentioned for the 331 are a good choice for a pure street car. Should keep the power range in the lower rpms which is where you want it for a street car. Larger heads will give more power up top but cost power down low.