Alignment gurus. Input needed.

[Beavis281]

Finally got around to getting my car aligned after installing new suspension parts. I was referred to a tech here locally that could do the job.

Had this done Friday. I was in shock when I was told they could not get the front into spec.

Car has new H&R sport springs. MM isos. MM camber plates. MM bump steer.

Any input on what would cause this?

 

[Coxy]

I can't recall for sure with the mm plates, but I thought they could be installed backwards causing limited adjustment... Been a while since I messed with them, but something to double check. But that alignment should head for the ditch if your road crown is anything like ours.

 

[Jsantana91]

Some people have issues doing the camber in the IRS u can look at the camber bolt and make sure the wider part of the washer is facing to the outside of the car/(you). That is full negative camber. Second look at ur mm cc plates to make sure you used the correct method and look to see if they match up in the same spot. And I'd personally go with less toe 0 degree toe... You can always take it to an alignment place for an alignment check. Post pics if you can of your mm cc to see the location of your camber plate...

 

[Brutal Metal]

The left side looks OK for camber, you don't wanna go much more than -1.0 for street driving, Caster looks fine on both sides, just that -0.3 camber on the right needs to be addressed.. I agree post pics so I can see that side..

 

[Beavis281]

Thanks for the input. Here are the pictures.

I believe they are mounted correctly. Could they plate in the wheel well be 180 out? 90 out? Is that even possible?

I helped a buddy install his. He went to the same exact guy todo alignment. Zero issues. I was busy with work at the time and had a performance shop install mine.

 

[Beavis281]

Some people have issues doing the camber in the IRS u can look at the camber bolt and make sure the wider part of the washer is facing to the outside of the car/(you). That is full negative camber. Second look at ur mm cc plates to make sure you used the correct method and look to see if they match up in the same spot. And I'd personally go with less toe 0 degree toe... You can always take it to an alignment place for an alignment check. Post pics if you can of your mm cc to see the location of your camber plate...

I gave the install guy the correct template. God I hope this is right.

I do not know where this rear camber bolt is at. Sorry

 

[JetmechF16]

Looks like you have the bearing plates in the outboard configuration, if you swap them it should give you a little more negative range in camber.

 

[Blkkbgt]

You said you installed new springs. Many people over look the upper elongated strut bolt at the spindle. What is most likely happening is that the spindle is sitting in a positive camber position (leaning out) because of this elongation.

Put the car back on jack stands and break the two spindle bolts loose. You'll notice that the spindle can be tilted in and out. Tilt the spindle inwards (negative camber) and then align the car.

I have seen this same problem literally 6 times now.

 

[Beavis281]

Looks like you have the bearing plates in the outboard configuration, if you swap them it should give you a little more negative range in camber.

I did notice the different configurations. I thought the outboard was more of a street application. The other was a race?


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[Beavis281]

You said you installed new springs. Many people over look the upper elongated strut bolt at the spindle. What is most likely happening is that the spindle is sitting in a positive camber position (leaning out) because of this elongation.

Put the car back on jack stands and break the two spindle bolts loose. You'll notice that the spindle can be tilted in and out. Tilt the spindle inwards (negative camber) and then align the car.

I have seen this same problem literally 6 times now.

Interesting.

So there is that much play in those 2 big bolts? Damn. Never noticed.

I will give this a shot next weekend or swap bearing plates.

Would I be better off swapping the bearing plates?


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[Blkkbgt]

Interesting.

So there is that much play in those 2 big bolts? Damn. Never noticed.

I will give this a shot next weekend or swap bearing plates.

Would I be better off swapping the bearing plates?


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Yes there is that much play. Ford intentionally did this to help with aligning the front end due to the large manufacturing tolerances in these cars. I forget how much adjustment is there but I know it's over +/- 1° each way.

You can swap the plates if you want but depending on how positive the spindle sitting you still may not get the camber you want or you'll max out the CC plate adjustment and won't be able to get any more negative camber if you want it later.

If you have a camber guage you can set the spindle to a negative position at ride height but you'll need to remove the spring and compress the strut to that position with the car level and the CC plate at full positive. This is where things get tricky because the strut may or may not contact the hood when you turn the wheels as the purpose of the plates is to allow the strut to articulate. It takes a lot of playing around but it's worth it imop.

 

[John M]

look at speciality shims I used to align a lot of cars at a Ford dealership and you can take a dremel to open the cc plates up a little and look speciality shims they make a coencentric bolt for the top bolt on the knuckle that you can get a little more degree out of, some people don't like them i have had good luck with them


also i forgot to add I'm guessing this is a before spec sheet or when he couldn't get any more camber out of it because your toe is way out

 

[Beavis281]

The sheet is what they gave me when I walked out. Is it not a before and after?

 

[01yellercobra]

Your plates look identical to mine and they were able to get everything within spec. Did you also install a K member or control arms by chance?

 

[Beavis281]

Your plates look identical to mine and they were able to get everything within spec. Did you also install a K member or control arms by chance?

No sir. Just springs. Iso. Camber plates and bumpsteer.

 

[Blkkbgt]

look at speciality shims I used to align a lot of cars at a Ford dealership and you can take a dremel to open the cc plates up a little and look speciality shims they make a coencentric bolt for the top bolt on the knuckle that you can get a little more degree out of, some people don't like them i have had good luck with them


also i forgot to add I'm guessing this is a before spec sheet or when he couldn't get any more camber out of it because your toe is way out

I really don't recommend either of these fixes as there is more than enough adjustment at the strut and spindle connection.

Camber bolts as they are commonly referred to have been known to break due to the relieved area on the side of the lobe and notching the CC plate is over kill and will void the warranty from MM . The only thing worse is notching the strut tower.

The other problem with any notching is that as you lean the strut in more and ( negative camber) you may start to run into the issue of deminishing returns. The amount of negative camber generated by say 1/8 movement inwards of the CC plate will give more adjustment when the plate is full positive than when it is close to maxed out. I know because I've played this game with my car and a few others. So the amount of notching could be much more than you think.

 

[Blkkbgt]

No sir. Just springs. Iso. Camber plates and bumpsteer.

Trust me just make the adjustment at the strut and spindle connection. After you break the tq on the bolts you'll see just how much movement there is. I've done this more then a few times on my car and others. How after these years this isn't common knowledge us beyond me.

 

[Beavis281]

Gotcha. Will do.

Appreciate all the input guys. Thank you.

 

[John M]

i would get it realigned 3/4 of a degree difference on the rear camber is quite a bit and the toe i misread my fault and the before and after is on there, ive done my car and my friends with the bolts and later used a dremel to extend the holes not a lot maybe a 3/16 i have raced autocross and getting into road races not a problem yet, and if lowering it a lot youll have to do something to get back what you are losing in all your alignment angles just MO though

 

[Blkkbgt]

i would get it realigned 3/4 of a degree difference on the rear camber is quite a bit and the toe i misread my fault and the before and after is on there, ive done my car and my friends with the bolts and later used a dremel to extend the holes not a lot maybe a 3/16 i have raced autocross and getting into road races not a problem yet, and if lowering it a lot youll have to do something to get back what you are losing in all your alignment angles just MO though

Why would you run a piece of hardware that is both not required and has a reputation for breaking? I also don't understand the purpose of notching the CC plates when all that is really needed is some additional adjustment at the strut/spindle. The other part of this is that the removal of material from the CC plate is not a good idea if you are on coilovers as the strut towers are bearing the full weight of the car at that point.