All Kenne Bell Guys In Here Please!

[Bosko]

I have some questions for you people that have the Kenne Bells Installed on your Cobras. I am seriously considering getting a KB on my car ASAP but I am worried about a couple of things. Ill try to make this short and sweet.

Does anyone experience any Driveability issues on the street?
Does the car do anything wierd on the street while driving that it didnt do before except for massive burn outs and things like that?
Under no load or deceleration does the car do anything "funny" such as have a irregular idle or "buck". If anything I would appreciate it if you would post if your KB'd car does anything thats not normal.

 

[2F2F]

Trying to get the KB in before Diablo Daze...?

 

[Bosko]

Haha... No.. I havent even got a program for my 4lb or 6lb Lowers yet... But I know that wont be enough for me..

 

[Shadowgray03]

The springs on the accufab are kind of weak and pedel was extremely touchy and sometimes would idle high, the large single blad would be held slightly open by the high amount of air flowing in, blipping the pedel would cure it but it was a pain. I ended up adding another sprint and that solved that. If you stick with the stock TB you likely wont have that issue.

Im 99'9% sure I have the Boost-a-pump connected properly and I took a run with a 17psi pulley on. Had to abort due to it being too lean. I tried it without a chip as well and it looked almost identicle which leads me to beleive I have a bad tune and it is not dealing with the BAP properly. Since I knew chip jad to be sent out for a reburn (no tuners in my state) I put the KB 9psi pulley back on and tried a pull with no chip. Laid down 456 SAE corrected rwhp and it was hot, had 4 prior runs in less than prolly 30 minutes and it was a hot day here as well. A/F looked like factory where it started high and ran straignt down but the whole bar was up a point of so. Not as low as I would like it but no pinging or detonation so the EEC seems to handle the 9psi pulley ok.

If you have a tuner in town, make sure they can deal with the unique circumstances of using a BAP with the KB and you should be ok. No real drivability issues just insane amounts of power.

 

[toofast4u]

I have seen no reason to use the BAP and everything I have seen leads to the conclusion that it is worthless. Nitrous Pete doesn't use it and says he can boost fuel pressure over 70 psi without it.

 

[Shadowgray03]

Originally posted by toofast4u
I have seen no reason to use the BAP and everything I have seen leads to the conclusion that it is worthless. Nitrous Pete doesn't use it and says he can boost fuel pressure over 70 psi without it.

Even with stock injectros?

 

[toofast4u]

Originally posted by Shadowgray03
Even with stock injectros?

I don't know, but would think it would be easier with stock injectors then higher flow ones.

 

[BOOOOST]

Originally posted by toofast4u
I have seen no reason to use the BAP and everything I have seen leads to the conclusion that it is worthless. Nitrous Pete doesn't use it and says he can boost fuel pressure over 70 psi without it.

Patrick and Willie directly at DiabloSport does all of Mr. Pete's tuning, and Patrick and Willie both advised AGAINST NOT using the BAP to anyone considering or going with the KB setup on the factory injectors.

The BAP only comes into play during boost anyway, so it does NOT affect driveability. If the tuner knows what he's doing, the BAP is one of the best choices we can go with.

Larger fuel pumps are nearly worthless, as they will only heat the fuel too much, and this is something that we do NOT want happening.

However, having larger injectors w/out the BAP, may work fine, as Pete is running 50's, at the last I knew.

 

[toofast4u]

BNASPLT then why does so many people with them have them disabled and the others say they don't see any fuel pressure increase.

Take a look at this thread.
KB BAP

I don't care if I am right or wrong I just want to know what is right.

 

[BOOOOST]

The reason they aren't getting any fuel pressure increase is simple:

The factory Cobra calibration will shorten injector pulse width to reduce fuel flow, and if the pressure is above 39psi, the pcm reduces fuel pressure. It senses that fuel pressure is raised beyond a specific threshhold. It constantly attempts to regulate fuel pressure to a mere 39psi, even at WOT. At 20psi total boost, the stock injectors become only a 20# injector (40psi - 20psi inlet manifold pressure forcing fuel back into the injector = 20psi effective pressure). At 40psi there would be no fuel whatsoever exiting the injector. Adding 8psi of boost drops the injector rating from 42 to 37#'s. At 20psi boost the injector is a 31#. This 11 #'s of fuel lost to the back pressure of boost will feed 168 hp! And there is no regulator to increase fuel pressure with boost. Therefore, the best solution is to raise fuel pressure with a BAP and modify the chip fuel strategies for a safe consistent AF ratio from 8-20psi. This is why it is important to have a tuner who understands how to tune the parameters in the pcm to keep the computer from pulling fuel, or lowering pulse width.

The Lightnings do not require a BAP or larger injectors up to 500 rwhp. After that 50# injectors and the BAP is recommended.

 

[03Steve]

Originally posted by toofast4u
I have seen no reason to use the BAP and everything I have seen leads to the conclusion that it is worthless. Nitrous Pete doesn't use it and says he can boost fuel pressure over 70 psi without it.

Guess again. :-D

Use the BAP until you fork over the $500 for larger injectors and a new MAF.

 

[toofast4u]

Originally posted by 03Steve
Guess again. :-D

Use the BAP until you fork over the $500 for larger injectors and a new MAF.

What Guess. It was an informed decision based on the best information available. And I was planning on going with 50# Delphi injectors. If the BAP works at 17 PSI and I don't need or shouldn't buy the injectors hey that's cheaper.

 

[03Steve]

The BAP only comes into play during boost anyway, so it does NOT affect driveability.

That is most definitely FALSE. The pressure switch activates at 3 psi. I see 3 psi on the highway while passing someone. The BAP turns on, and depending on the controller's setting, dumps more fuel in the car. While in closed-loop, this causes my car to fall violently on its face.

Use the BAP. Mount the controller in your glove box. Only turn it up to your tuned setting for WOT runs. Save for larger injectors and MAF. :idea:

 

[BOOOOST]

Yeah, as 03Steve said, one of the problems is that we're already going to need a new MAF at around 525 to 550 rwhp. Sure, the tuner can bandaid this, but it's best to get a Pro-M that can handle higher power #'s w/out pegging at 5 volts as soon as our stock meter does.

And, yeah, he's right, in the fact that if you can afford larger injectors, then by all means go that route. You will not need as much fuel pressure on a 50 or 55# injector, as you do with our stock 42's. I really shouldn't overrate the factory 42 and BAP combo, but I just want to let everyone know that it will work.

Here's a breakdown of the factory injectors:

 

[AMB]

KB BAP

The KB BAP will not boost the fuel pressure, it will only make aviable more fuel, if required by the program, so the only way you know it is working is if the fuel pressure falls at high RPM's. You can only boost the fuel pressure by programing the computer. I run it all the time and set the amount of the switch 0/50 % by the amount of boost I am runing, and by the increase in fuel pressure programed into the computer/chip.

AMB

 

[BOOOOST]

AMB, that is correct, it makes for more fuel availability, and the programming is required to take advantage of such for higher fuel pressure, otherwise the pcm will notice the additional fuel, and will lower pulse width, which will reduce fuel pressure. I didn't mean for my previous posts to sound misleading in that regard.

 

[03Steve]

Originally posted by toofast4u
What Guess. It was an informed decision based on the best information available. And I was planning on going with 50# Delphi injectors. If the BAP works at 17 PSI and I don't need or shouldn't buy the injectors hey that's cheaper.

Sorry toofast, I was talking about Nitro's setup. I saw the BAP controller mounted in his car. I agree with your statement above! :beer:

 

[BOOOOST]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered 55# injectors today, and will be going with a Pro-M calibrated for those injectors. I'm going to do my best to get around having to use the BAP, although I do think that it is a great product, so long as your tuner knows how to calibrate for it properly.

My KB package will be in next week on Thursday, and then it's time to get serious over the weekend!

I'll keep everyone posted with before and after results, as well as pictures from start to finish.

 

[Jerryk]

Originally posted by 03Steve
While in closed-loop, this causes my car to fall violently on its face. Mount the controller in your glove box. Only turn it up to your tuned setting for WOT runs.

That absolutely blows chunks! There is no way I'm running around in a car this sophisticated only to fumble w/ the friggin glove box and a cheesy rheostat every time I see a Z06 on the road that might want to have some fun.. I'm not hurling insults here I'm thinking out loud Steve. The real solution is what you stated: 55lb injectors and larger/calibrated MAM... right?? Someone tells me that works flawlessly... please! The part about the car falling on its face means your fouling your cats as well over time from the raw fuel being spewed into the cylinders.. better change your oil more often too if your running that rich..

The Autologic tuners have this licked don't they? I need to give JMS a call on Monday and ask...


Jerry

 

[BOOOOST]

Originally posted by Jerryk
The Autologic tuners have this licked don't they? I need to give JMS a call on Monday and ask...

DiabloSport has it nipped in the bud, too. Of course do you really think that any "well known" tuner is going to tell you they don't? ;-)

I had a change of heart as I said in the post directly above yours, and I went with 55's as of today, and my new Pro-M MAF meter should be at DiabloSport when I get down there very soon.