Any 6.4 PSD Experts? How Screwed am I?

[SirShaun]

Oh man, what a night.

2008 F250, DPF Deleted, EGR Disabled in Tune, Spartan Tuned

Took off normal, car beside wanted to play, I floored it. I stop at the next light and I thought my wife was shaking the truck, missing something bad, almost wanting to turn off.

No CEL, or useful codes. Pulled over had the bright idea to reload a new tune, maybe force a relearn process or something. Great, now truck will not stay running, turns on runs rough for 10 seconds, turns off.

Buddy comes out with a bad ass scanner and does some graphing, finally get it to run after bumping the gas just right and revving it a bit. Throws a P0088 code, he goes straight to HPFP, and the guy I got the truck from said HPFP hadn't long been replaced.

Limped it to the fuel station, truck wouldn't go over 40. Last place I got diesel I had only threw 20 bucks in, used a 1/4 tank of it I'd say before this fiasco. Put fresh diesel in and the she ran rough but strong, ran 60-65 all the way home.

This morning I threw a bunch of Diesel Kleen into the tank, and changed the oil looking for metal. Spotted nothing out of the ordinary. I took it up the road and finally got some codes. The truck has larger than stock injectors in it, I learned from the maintenance records, so it has always puffed a little grey on cold start. Seems to be more now. Not so much once warm though.

I'm thinking the P0088 was due to the new tune calibrating, as I haven't been able to reproduce it. CEL finally threw somewhere during the warm video, but no new codes. Any ideas?

P0278 Cylinder 6 Contribution/Balance
P0300 Random Misfire Detected

 

[SID297]

You need a good tech to run some tests with an IDS on it. You may have cracked a piston. 6.4s with hot tunes are very known for that.

 

[SirShaun]

You need a good tech to run some tests with an IDS on it. You may have cracked a piston. 6.4s with hot tunes are very known for that.

I wish it were that easy for me. Haven't been long got back to work, digging out, can't really afford to be on the hook for a massive problem like a cracked piston right now. Essentially it's going to be a lawn ornament until I get my money right. I'm hoping like hell someone comes in with the exact same problem, knows exactly what it is, and it be an injector...

I started looking at cracked piston videos. Wished I hadn't. I took the oil cap off, it's not moving any air through it, like those in the videos.

 

[SID297]

I wish it were that easy for me. Haven't been long got back to work, digging out, can't really afford to be on the hook for a massive problem like a cracked piston right now. Essentially it's going to be a lawn ornament until I get my money right. I'm hoping like hell someone comes in with the exact same problem, knows exactly what it is, and it be an injector...

I started looking at cracked piston videos. Wished I hadn't. I took the oil cap off, it's not moving any air through it, like those in the videos.

6.4s tend to have a lot of blow-by on even healthy engines.

 

[SirShaun]

6.4s tend to have a lot of blow-by on even healthy engines.

Damn that's odd. Motor was still warm when I cranked it. EOT and ECT were 120+, I removed filler cap, put my palm over the hole and felt nothing. Am I missing something?

 

[03Sssnake]

You could start with IDS if you have access to a scanner and run a relative compression test to see if there is loss in any of the cylinders. Though I have heard some say that test can have mixed results. If you don't have access to an IDS scanner, warm it up then perform a compression test, pull the glow plugs, start with number 8. If there's going to be bad news, it will probably be there. Cylinders should read 340+PSI.

 

[03Sssnake]

Damn that's odd. Motor was still warm when I cranked it. EOT and ECT were 120+, I removed filler cap, put my palm over the hole and felt nothing. Am I missing something?

Missed this before my first post. You may not have a hurt motor if there's isn't noticeable blow by with oil fill cap off. That miss you experienced after your wot run could have been caused by broken rocker, bent pushrod.

 

[RedVenom48]

You need to get it properly diagnosed. Whatever the fix might be can be had later if needed. Knowing what is wrong will help you plan for that.

 

[rotor_powerd]

Stick an IDS on it and run a contribution test, but that balance code tells the tale. 99% chance that you have a cracked piston in #6. It's possible that you have something else going on as well, could be a broken rocker. Not as common as cracked pistons but it does happen.

Larger injectors on a stock pump is interesting..... the stock pump won't maintain rail pressure with anything much over stock. Could certainly cause premature pump failure. P0088 means the pump is trashed. They're expensive at about $1,000, but better to replace now before it wipes all of your injectors as well.

 

[SirShaun]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Any estimate on how much a Relative Compression Test is, or a Contribution Test is? What should I expect to pay to have it diagnosed?

It will go up the road just fine, just feels like a dead cylinder. I don't want to drive it, if there is any chance I can do more damage. An injector issue could melt the piston and scorch the cylinder wall right?

I might be able to get someone out with the Ford IDS scanner. If not, I'm just cringing at the fact of towing it in, and right back out, if it's super serious.

 

[rotor_powerd]

Any Ford dealer should run the test for you for $100-200. I can pretty much guarantee you it's not an injector issue.

The driver side valve cover is a little bit of a pain to get off, with the turbo U pipe and fuel cooler having to come out first, but if you have some mechanical ability it isn't bad. You could have it off in under an hour and just verify that you don't have any broken rockers or valve bridges on the #6 hole.

A broken rocker almost always produces a "womping" noise back out of the intake. You don't have that based on the videos you posted. Just based on the codes you've given, the smoke, and the knocking, I'd say you almost certainly have a cracked piston.

For reference;

 

[rotor_powerd]

Here's the "normal" test for blow by. Unscrew your oil cap and just sit it in the hole. If it pops out then your blow by is "excessive." All of these trucks make a ton of blowby even when healthy so it's hard to tell what's normal or not just by looking at it. As you can see, mine puffs quite a bit of smoke out with the cap off, and this was right after a full rebuild.

 

[SirShaun]

My truck is good on blow by. It had been sitting for a minute, EOT and ECT were still 120+. I had my wife crank it and I flat palmed it over the oil fill hole and felt nothing. Should I get it up to running temp 190-205 and try again?

I wasn't even on the 275 tune anymore, I don't think. I had backed it down to the 250 or 210, was only WOT for a few seconds.

EOT/ECT deltas have stayed +/-5 of each other.

I probably put 40-50 miles on it getting it home, and running it around the block with Diesel Kleen in the tank. Dropped the oil. Compared it to the last bucket full I got, looks to be the same amount. Doesn't scream diesel fuel is mixing with the oil.

Degas bottle looks good, it's not mixed with oil.

 

[rotor_powerd]

If you hold your hand over it, that just forces any pressure into the vent that goes back into the intake. You have to sit the cap on it to really get a feel for what sort of crankcase pressure there is.

 

[SirShaun]

Going on a roll back for a compression check tomorrow. If it fails the compression check, I'll probably go lose my ass at the dealership on trade in, end up with something a lot less awesome. It'd take me way to long to save up for a motor for one of these things considering my situation. I'm guessing used motor and labor run $10k-$12k.

If it has compression, I'm gonna slap an injector in it, or rockers, or push rod, and keep on giving it hell. Fingers crossed, hopefully I haven't learned my lesson yet.

 

[rotor_powerd]

No offense, the latter is a terrible idea. You need to find out what is wrong before throwing parts at it, much less continuing to drive it. When these things break, they break big and are very expensive to fix. Have someone properly diagnose it and go from there.


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[SirShaun]

No offense, the latter is a terrible idea. You need to find out what is wrong before throwing parts at it, much less continuing to drive it. When these things break, they break big and are very expensive to fix. Have someone properly diagnose it and go from there.


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I'm having someone pick it up, it's going to a reputable diesel shop for a compression check. If it has compression I'll chase the problem, have them pull the valve cover and see what they can find. If the cylinder is dead, I don't have the time or money for a short block and labor. I'm not sure how else to go about it @rotor_powerd. If it needs a motor, I'm out.

 

[SirShaun]

Who knows, I might end up with the most expensive 1994 F150 2wd on the site yet.

 

[rotor_powerd]

That makes sense, I thought you were saying that if it has compression then you'd keep driving and replace parts to see what fixes it.

I've been down the "What's wrong with my 6.4" road way too many times and it never ends well. Just trying to make sure you go about it the best way possible to avoid further damage. Hopefully it's a quick fix, but it seems like it never is with these things.


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[Gravik]

So in other words, 6.0 > 6.4