Can't stop thinking about cams. Advice wanted.

tones_RS3

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I will be having bill at BAP install his CUSTOM ground comp cams that are NSR. The question I have is that he installs them without pulling the engine so it would be more costly for me to add the other things. Is it worth that cost?
I would do the other things as well like OPG and crank sprocket gear. Might as well do them while it is in the shop than have a failure and have to tear into it again or possibly worse, risk engine damage. Remember, it's better to go overkill then to cheap out. (I like the idea of the L&M nsr cams as well. I think BJ from VMP is running them and his car is wicked.)
Good luck and post up your new dyno numbers and a video if you can.
 

Catmonkey

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Thanks for that post above. I'm not looking for all out power, just a street car. I'm mainly looking
For the muscle car lope. With that being said is that the type that moves the power way up or the "all out" power cams? Bill mainly specs the same cams and degree's them differently for different pipes and such. I have no problem with a few extra hundred $$ if it's worth it at the time.
With enough overlap to give a lopey idle, the cams will have to be pretty aggressive. In fact most dynos I've seen on these NSR cams tend to make less power and torque below 5,500 rpm and start to shine at rpm above that. You may also find the street manners are not the same with more duration either.
 

Bad Company

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As far as upgrading the rest of the components it is very cheap insurance against a timing system failure. A timing system failure will cost you a minimum of $15K to rebuild the engine. Remember the saying "pay me now or pay me later".......the "later" is going to be nasty to the bank account.


If Bill says he can save time and money by doing this in the car, I believe him. He has worked on enough of these cars to be able to understand what it takes in labor to do it properly.
 

RBB

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As far as upgrading the rest of the components it is very cheap insurance against a timing system failure. A timing system failure will cost you a minimum of $15K to rebuild the engine. Remember the saying "pay me now or pay me later".......the "later" is going to be nasty to the bank account.


If Bill says he can save time and money by doing this in the car, I believe him. He has worked on enough of these cars to be able to understand what it takes in labor to do it properly.
Good advice here. I'm in the middle of putting parts together for a build this fall and I've ended up spending quite a bit more on timing components than I had originally planned. But as BC is saying, you can pay a little now or a lot later on when you have a failure. Doing it right the first time will save a lot of $$ in the future.
 

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Thanks for that post above. I'm not looking for all out power, just a street car. I'm mainly looking
For the muscle car lope. With that being said is that the type that moves the power way up or the "all out" power cams? Bill mainly specs the same cams and degree's them differently for different pipes and such. I have no problem with a few extra hundred $$ if it's worth it at the time.


The set that we spec'd sacrificed roughly 50 ft lbs of torque down low and picked up about 50 hp peak with gains from 5500 up. Honestly, that vid that Josh posted doesn't do the car justice.
 

kwhodson

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2013 with the following mods:
Upper pulley, 90mm idler, belt gripper
Twin 65mm throttle body
Jlt carbon intake
Kooks long tunes, off-road H, boss side exit, resonators, and stock axleback (yeah I know it's alot)
Full BMR REAR suspension
Drag radials
737rwhp

I want the muscle car sound and wouldn't mind the 70rw as well. Approaching 800hp should I consider oil pump gears or any other timing components? I would be getting NSR cams so it's not like the OPG''s are easy at that point. What do I need to do in order to keep my motor alive and happy if I go this route?

Thanks in advance.
I'm in the same boat... Bj @VMP has tuned my car remotely and has it running to perfection but I sooooooo want the cam sound I had in my 07 S197...I have even considered shipping my car to VMP to have the work completed.

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Turbo98GT

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If your looking for reliability and longevity go with nsr cams. Looking back on my build i would of bought the l&m nsr cams. Heavy springs just wear the timing components faster.

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Anything over .500 lift will be more of a maintenance issue and they require aftermarket springs. Id go with an NSR type cams or custom ones with less than .500 lift with aftermarket springs and be good.

I didnt do cams and timing until I built my engine. The labor is very expensive. I waited and that cost got rolled in with basic labor on an engine assembly.

Definitely upgrade oil pump gears and anything timing components you can afford to do. Its worth it.
 

biminiLX

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I spoke with JDM engineering in NJ about a similar type of job; cams, OPG, timing upgrades, and crank gear. Its definitely expensive but worth it for peace of mind to bolster some of the vulnerable parts of the motor. Still may be on borrowed time with the rods, but keeping rpm's down should help them live longer.
See some of the other posts but if you want to use the power from the cams, it will make the power leak higher making it harder on rods and OPGs. For guys racing, yes you need rods and supporting upgrades. If you're content with current power and not looking to race, only sound, then go for just cams and rest can stay stock.
-J
 

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http://www.teamjdm.com/blog/

We just finished a 2014 GT500 here the other day with this same job. Installed our Super Stock Cam package, ARP Cam bolts, New O ringed Oil pump w/ TSS billet gears, ARP JDM guide pins, and our Heavy Duty Secondary Chain set. While your in the motor doing the cams everything else is right there. We did drop the engine out of the car which takes about half a day to do so. After that it's much easier to work on the engine. We had the cams, springs, and other components installed by the end of day 2 and day 3 we got the engine back in and running. In all about 24 hrs in labor. Time consuming but I guarantee if you tried doing this in the car it would be equally as long of an install and your humping over the fenders working in confined spaces. Especially the rear driver side of the engine...

The car previously had our 750 HP upgrade kit (SCT X4, JLT 123, FRPP twin 65mm throttle body) and Kooks Long Tubes. We did those mods last summer and it made 690 RWHP. After the above mods and again in the Summer heat it made 766 RWHP....76 RWHP net gain. This is on 93 octane and 16 degrees of timing. We left some room in the tune up because we knew come cooler air the car is going to be approaching 800 RWHP and maxing out the fuel system. Only fueling upgrade we made was id1000 injectors.

http://www.teamjdm.com/jdm-super-stock-2007-2014-shelby-gt500-camshaft-upgrade/
 

50stangpower

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http://www.teamjdm.com/blog/

We just finished a 2014 GT500 here the other day with this same job. Installed our Super Stock Cam package, ARP Cam bolts, New O ringed Oil pump w/ TSS billet gears, ARP JDM guide pins, and our Heavy Duty Secondary Chain set. While your in the motor doing the cams everything else is right there. We did drop the engine out of the car which takes about half a day to do so. After that it's much easier to work on the engine. We had the cams, springs, and other components installed by the end of day 2 and day 3 we got the engine back in and running. In all about 24 hrs in labor. Time consuming but I guarantee if you tried doing this in the car it would be equally as long of an install and your humping over the fenders working in confined spaces. Especially the rear driver side of the engine...

The car previously had our 750 HP upgrade kit (SCT X4, JLT 123, FRPP twin 65mm throttle body) and Kooks Long Tubes. We did those mods last summer and it made 690 RWHP. After the above mods and again in the Summer heat it made 766 RWHP....76 RWHP net gain. This is on 93 octane and 16 degrees of timing. We left some room in the tune up because we knew come cooler air the car is going to be approaching 800 RWHP and maxing out the fuel system. Only fueling upgrade we made was id1000 injectors.

http://www.teamjdm.com/jdm-super-stock-2007-2014-shelby-gt500-camshaft-upgrade/

That would be awesome and I did email you guys a while back and get pricing for everything you mention.... just out of my budget to do all of that with you guys. Of I had an extra 6,500 laying around that's what I would do!
 

Bearbo

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So teamjdm will work on the vehicle? Most places you have to drop the motor yourself and send it to them for them to work on it.
 

Streetpwr281

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Is the extended RPMs of cams to reach 780rwhp level harder on the 5.8L GT500 rods vs possibly running a smaller pulley to add 2psi boost to achieve same peak hp? Will our motor take the added boost assuming a safe tune or the RPMs (cams) more reliably?


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Is the extended RPMs of cams to reach 780rwhp level harder on the 5.8L GT500 rods vs possibly running a smaller pulley to add 2psi boost to achieve same peak hp? Will our motor take the added boost assuming a safe tune or the RPMs (cams) more reliably?

No, people do it all the time. We are leaving a limiter at 6800 RPM which is pretty reasonable. It's more than RPM that breaks stock rods, torque, load, boost, detonation...etc all play a roll. This car is running about 16 psi boost (moderate compared to some), has only 16 degrees timing, and the cams are helping to relieve some of the internal pressure as well. It breaths very efficiently so there is not as much stress on the motor. Now if he was whacking it past 7,000 RPM on a daily basis that's a different story.


Also a pulley that adds 2 psi boost is not going to gain anywhere near the power of cams. You're also cramming more heat and pressure into the motor which would be more stressful in my opinion.

JimIII
 

MovingZen

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No, people do it all the time. We are leaving a limiter at 6800 RPM which is pretty reasonable. It's more than RPM that breaks stock rods, torque, load, boost, detonation...etc all play a roll. This car is running about 16 psi boost (moderate compared to some), has only 16 degrees timing, and the cams are helping to relieve some of the internal pressure as well. It breaths very efficiently so there is not as much stress on the motor. Now if he was whacking it past 7,000 RPM on a daily basis that's a different story.


Also a pulley that adds 2 psi boost is not going to gain anywhere near the power of cams. You're also cramming more heat and pressure into the motor which would be more stressful in my opinion.

JimIII
First, I'd like to complain that you're located in NJ instead of Charleston for obvious reasons. lol
But seriously, what kind of pulley action do you have on that engine to get 16 psi with your cams? Asking for a friend. :D
 

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First, I'd like to complain that you're located in NJ instead of Charleston for obvious reasons. lol
But seriously, what kind of pulley action do you have on that engine to get 16 psi with your cams? Asking for a friend. :D

I grew up in Charleston! Love it there

From the Factory these cars are 15 psi boost. This car has a Metco 2.40" upper which was done before the cams
 

50stangpower

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well she goes in for surgery in the next 2 weeks. I need to find a competition BAP ASAP if anyone has one. otherwise it looks like I will have to buy a new one.
 

paluka21

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well she goes in for surgery in the next 2 weeks. I need to find a competition BAP ASAP if anyone has one. otherwise it looks like I will have to buy a new one.

Very cool! I assume Harry's car put the finishing touches on the cam debate the other weekend at the car show?
 

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