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"Clean air act"

Discussion in 'Road Side Pub' started by jdcobra, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. patc84

    patc84 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    ^ we (RENNtech) are only 50 state compliant on the tunes for the 4.0 bi turbo engines M177/M178, all other tunes from the older engines are not.

    All our other parts do not have a CARB EO#.
     
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  2. delvin.a

    delvin.a Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I’m aware


    9704cde480e07474b32123eb4c56bb33.jpg
     
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  3. Deceptive

    Deceptive Brad's Spirit Donkey Premium Member Established Member

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    Maybe we need to really start playing the Fedz games.

    Like I said, we need a lawyer to draw up the meat of an injunction and have it passed out and everyone file.

    Also, everyone start filing for FOIs against the EPA in relation to all of this. Clog up their agencies and **** them any way we can.


    Joe Biden has sniffed here.
     
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  4. SonicDTR

    SonicDTR Wasn't me. Established Member

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    Was curious about Renntech being EPA compliant and it is interesting that a top search result is talking about these issues back in 2013. 2013 ecu tune
     
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  5. 7998

    7998 Don't Care Established Member Malt Liquor Mafia

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    Response from my scummy senator. Notice the wording. I'm thinking the RPM act is to car folks what the GCA or Hughes act is to gun folk. AllDemocratsareFuckingScum.png
     
  6. Corbic

    Corbic Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Yup, it protects NASCAR, not our ability to buy headers or install turbos and nitrous.
     
  7. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member

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    Not good guys. Maybe someone smarter than me can link the PDF.

    Case 3:20-cv-08003-JJT Document 105 Filed 03/08/21 Page 1 of 33

    In its non-party brief filed February 17, 2021 (ECF No. 78-1) (“SEMA Brief”), the Specialty Equipment Market Association (“SEMA”), suggests that EPA is attempting to shut down a “fabric of American life.” SEMA Brief at 2-3. EPA is doing no such thing. Rather, EPA is seeking to stop a flood of defeat devices from being installed on motor vehicles that drive on our public roads. EPA has explicitly given racing part suppliers the ability to demonstrate that their parts are not ending up in motor vehicles driven on the public roads and thereby justify EPA’s enforcement discretion. See ECF No. 48-3 at 2; ECF No. 48-4 at 2. However, what EPA has found through its investigations is that many makers and sellers of defeat devices sell them indiscriminately to the general public and these companies, as well as SEMA, have never been able to demonstrate that they end up on vehicles used exclusively in competition motor sports. See ECF No. 48-3 at 2; ECF No. 48-4 at 2. EPA has estimated based on its cases over 500,000 diesel trucks have had its emissions controls removed, this more than double the number of racing vehicles (gasoline and diesel) that SEMA says exists.2 In an effort to remove certified motor vehicles used, or purportedly used, in competition motorsports from the ambit of the CAA, SEMA contends that whether something is a motor vehicle can change depending on how it is used or modified after it has been introduced into commerce. SEMA Brief at 7-8. From this, SEMA insists that the government can enforce the Defeat Device Prohibitions only by tracking each device sold to a specific motor vehicle to “determine whether a company knowingly and intentionally sold race delete parts for on-road use.” Id. at 16-18. The plain language of the CAA shows that SEMA is wrong. The CAA is clear that a certified motor vehicle remains a motor vehicle throughout its life even if it is modified for some other use such as competition motorsports or is not used on public roads. Products designed to bypass or render inoperative emission controls on EPA-certified motor vehicles are illegal. The structure and purpose of the CAA confirms this statutory construction and EPA’s statements have consistently espoused this view. Additionally, even if SEMA’s arguments were accepted in abstract theory, the United States has established nonetheless that it will likely succeed in proving the merits of this case against Gear Box Z, Inc. (“GBZ”) on the facts in the record (a record that includes no evidence its parts are used on competition motorsports), and this Court should grant the United States’ Motion for Preliminary Injunction.
     
  8. GTSpartan

    GTSpartan Yield right!!!! Established Member

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    Depressing

    Not trying to be a pessimist here, but SEMA (and the tuning industry) is going to get crushed in the courts. They don't stand a chance against the EPA, especially under the current administration.

    Holding my breath for when the EPA decides to go after the OEM's for not making it more difficult to modify a vehicles control system. God forbid it ever be perceived by the general public that they are even remotely associated with "rouge" tuners.

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  9. delvin.a

    delvin.a Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Session time

    So it’s the manufacturers responsibility now to ensure how the buyer uses the product? Great, so I don’t own anything I guess when someone else can tell me how I can use it. What else will this extend to? Food? Weapons? Electricity? I mean it’s absolutely endless when you think about it. Is Black and Decker guilty if a coffee maker is used as a bomb? McDonalds guilty of giving someone heart disease?

    Tyranny
     
  10. Corbic

    Corbic Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

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    The Great Reset! You'll own nothing and be happy!
     
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  11. scott9050

    scott9050 Michelle Obama ia a Man Premium Member Established Member

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    Trump was in the way of it, he had to go for the world elites to pull this off. One World Government.

    Sent from my SM-G988U using the svtperformance.com mobile app
     
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  12. FordMoCo21

    FordMoCo21 Just passing through. Established Member

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    Back after taking a breather.

    I have some thoughts I know will go against the grain after more research.

    If a well thought out dialogue is too much for you to handle, and you're going to complain about wordiness, **** off before you even start.

    VMP as noted was hit with $60k in fines a few years ago. They are still in business. They are still tuning. They are still selling parts. They are also not publicly freaking out about this like Lund is. SURELY Lund knew about VMP getting hit years ago, so why are they JUST now acting like it's a new thing? Because they finally got a visit? Likely. Diesel shops have been getting hit since like 2016 as well...

    Diesel tuners and aftermarket parts suppliers which were hit with fines are also still in business. Now years later. Performance Diesel Inc. is one example, $1.1Mil in fines in 2019. Site is still up. Still selling tunes, turbos, manifolds, etc. However NOT "defeat" devices nor tunes which allow defeat devices to function properly.

    The ONLY people I have seen mention that the EPA is coming after every single modification are SEMA and Lund. Both have mentioned intakes, superchargers, "exhaust" vaguely. I do not see where the EPA has fined any of these companies in the past 4-5 years for anything OTHER THAN cat deletes/EGR deletes and/or tuning for those items. The EPA has specifically stated in each of their company "cases" filed, that the goal was to fine for "defeat devices". Superchargers, turbos, intakes are not defeat devices. And this is why these companies that were already hit are still selling them... Don't you think if the EPA really wanted to hit them on all fronts those other parts would've been figured into the fines, and they would also now not be allowed to sell them right now?

    National Compliance Initiative: Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices for Vehicles and Engines | US EPA


    I do not see basic modding, intake/supercharger(with EGR), injectors, normal tune with emissions all ON, being at stake here... and that is exactly what SEMA/Lund are making it out to be... Is it because if everyone knew this was solely about cats/egr/evap there wouldn't be enough outrage to run forward with? That's my opinion.

    "Section 203 (a)(3)(b) of the Clean Air Act (CAA), 42 U.S.C. Sec. 7522(a)(3)(b), prohib its the manufacture, selling, or installation of any device that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative a required element of the vehicle's emissions control system."
    A proper tune/cold air intake/cat back, injectors and most superchargers do not "bypass, defeat, or render inoperative" the emissions control system unless you remove the cats/egr/evap. Why do you think the Ford Racing/Roush supercharger kits and other mod stuff is kosher? Because they don't turn that shit off in the tune! Also it's okay in Cali because of the CARB EOs...

    Yes, Cali and a select few other states(just in certain counties even) do require CARB EO parts. Cali has been like this for over a decade, absolutely nothing new. THIS is what would effectively kill the hobby, as there's VERY limited parts that currently have CARB EO certs. And it costs a shit ton apparently to get the CARB EO. If the EPA adopted the CARB EO mantra, then yes shit would be getting more real then. But EVEN then, companies can jump through the hoops to get the cert and sell their parts. It truly seems to me, the tuners do not want to pay these CARB certs, and therefor are acting like every single thing is under attack. When it is not. The 2020-2023 EPA "Initiative" SPECIFCALLY states this is about DEFEAT DEVICES and tunes that allow these defeat devices to operate. They DO NOT state that tunes in general are under attack. Again, previous companies hit and "raided" are still in business with tunes... Diesel shops, VMP... This initiative is now more public than ever in the car community, but it has been going on for like 5 years.

    Even if the CARB EO parts standard went into effect at the Federal level, I strongly doubt every state will comply cordially... there is a metric shit ton of counties that do not currently even have regular, basic inspections, let alone all the extra equipment and personnel needed for proper SMOG and CARB EO parts checks. Catalytic converters have been a federal offense for removing for DECADES now, and still the Feds have no way of making the states MANDATE this(the states/counties that don't do annual inspections I mean), other than a dealership needs to make sure the car has cats before selling... think about it.

    The bottom line is, worst case scenario has the Feds adopting CARB compliance (which is NOT what the RPM Act, nor the current EPA initiative is even about mind you), and you cannot mod unless the part you are adding has the CARB EO number. Then on top of that annua/semi annual inspections would need to occur in every single county in the country to enforce it. Parts suppliers WILL go through this process to get certified, they just won't LIKE it. Same with tuners.

    Will 6/7/8 second cars with VINs potentially go away? Yes. THAT is the issue I see. Some cars are truly unable to operate without a cat delete. They just can't run at that level of performance. However, for the basic hobbyist you can run cats/egr/evap on a 9 second car/road racing build, etc...
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  13. Fastback

    Fastback Baker Premium Member Established Member

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    That is what they are pushing for in the firearms industry. Gun manufacturers to be held accountable for the actions of the owners. It's insane.
     
  14. GTSpartan

    GTSpartan Yield right!!!! Established Member

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    It's simply a matter of enforcement. If the EPA gets a stick up their ass and wants to bring down the hammer, they could shut the doors of the companies you listed. Or at the very least, litigate them into an oblivion. They are most likely trying to make an example of a few outfits in hopes of deterring the rest. If that doesn't yield the results they are looking for and they remain committed to eradicating these atrocities, they'll keep turning up the heat.


     
  15. FordMoCo21

    FordMoCo21 Just passing through. Established Member

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    I can agree with that. My point about CARB compliant parts not becoming the standard still stands though. Because I seriously doubt the EPA will become more strict that California. Cali is the pinnacle of regulation... Even if this instance did occur, some companies would still go out of business however, as they can't afford the certification costs to sell their parts, if CARB EO was mandated nationwide.

    KB/Ford/Roush and others do and have had CARB compliant parts. That is the bottom line answer to STRICT regulation on aftermarket parts, currently only in Cali(and I think a few other places like Denver, and some of NY?). Less aggressive tunes and less effective intakes/pulley sizes would also result. I do understand that concern. However that is not the immediate concern everyone is talking about, cats/egr/evap is.

    There is a difference between a CARB compliant SC kit, and selling/tuning for cat deletes. That's the difference I'm pointing out. The sky isn't falling quite as hard or as fast as some are led to believe.
     
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  16. cidsamuth

    cidsamuth Liberty Biberty Established Member

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    Well, it went against my normal operating procedure, but I read the whole post. You make some very sound points.

    And, if you're right, the net effect will be . . . wait for it . . . check engine lights on cat/EGR/EVAP deletes. Far as I know, most of those 6-second cars will run just fine.

    And most will be electric in a few years anyway.
     
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  17. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member

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    The consumer will have greatly limited options and the cost of those options will increase in price dramatically. The turbo guys will be out of luck. If the greens get it to that point, with just a few vendors, all CARB and the EPA have to do is stop approving kits. I suppose that depends on the state of ICE at that point.

    I will say that if farmers are using Russian hackers to work on their farm equipment, where there is a will, maybe there is a way.
     
  18. FordMoCo21

    FordMoCo21 Just passing through. Established Member

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    For sure more expensive and yeah I'm not aware of turbo carb compliance accept for OEM stuff. Also like you said only a few vendors/manufacturers so less competition.

    The fact that their "initiative" is labeled 2020-2023 gives SOME hope, in that they'll back off after that point... but who knows how much damage will be done by then.

    I just don't think the Feds have enough resources/power(or should I say I don't think they'll actually go scorched earth) to make sure every county in the entire country starts doing annual/semi-annual SMOG style checks, CARB EO specialists, "referees" etc. These Southern states run so lean, it just ain't happening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  19. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Eh. Feds don't have to enforce, just threaten the withholding of money until states get in compliance. Has happened with the epa before.
     
  20. FordMoCo21

    FordMoCo21 Just passing through. Established Member

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    Yeah I agree that could happen. But I honestly don't think this is THAT big of a deal to them. I mean they've been going after companies now for 4-5 years. While it's a priority of theirs, it's not really going very quickly. And that fact they're going after manufacturers and installers tells me they don't want to deal with the states. If they stop the supply, in theory, they don't have to worry about any cars on the roads with these cat deletes. If there are no cat deletes to sell, then nobody buys them, then there's little to no reason to have inspections specifically for them. Not to mention this is a cash grab for them, they're making millions. If they left it up to the states, how would they siphon as much money out of this ordeal?

    The way they're doing it is simply easier and also more lucrative.
     

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