"Clean air act"

[SonicDTR]

My '03 has cats, O2s, EGR...etc still functioning. Passes emissions every time without question. Obviously it's tuned. How does this affect someone like me? Or does it not because I've "followed the rules" by not removing/disabling/tampering with emissions nannies?

Mostly this stuff affects you when you need a new tune or your device dies. Neither of those will be available if things keep going the way they are.

 

[FordMoCo21]

.

 

[blk02edge]

Have to see how it all plays out... All I'm saying is things like NASCAR, and hell even this country in general were established from outlaw tendencies. The same will happen here. They can clamp down on OEMs, parts suppliers/manufacturers, etc. There's still a talented guy in a garage that the EPA doesn't even know exists, that can and will be cranking out mid pipes and headers on a "by word of mouth" basis. CA can't even deal with their own emissions guys doing under the table passes of cars not compliant. It'll be the same story here.

The car owners will find every loophole imaginable. Swap parts for inspections, have multiple tunes to run, more underground tuning will occur(think word of mouth advertising only, deep web access only, etc.), start running ****ing electriconic valved dumps pre-cat lmao, only drive on private property (racetracks, and if these manage to get shutdown more can popup anywhere in the country and they get more and more discrete every iteration), drive on back roads without registration (people already do this shit everyday and have since the car was created), remove the VIN and any other signifiers, OBD2 slot to check codes? Lmfao try and find it if there is NO OBD2 slot, and no VIN to be found how is this vehicle going to be tracked and or monitored? It's not illegal to own a piece of machinery you cobbled together... Register it? Obviously not, but see previous loopholes above; buy up every pre 1975 vehicle under the sun and swap those bitches with the most badass modern engines and run straight pipes (this is the big one for people that can afford it...), and finally just not give a shit and pay the fines and do whatever IF they even get caught.

The ONLY way this shit is enforceable for the individual is if they somehow manage to require your vehicle to CONSTANTLY report emissions data back to a MONITORED database, that isn't happening. They have money, but they don't have that amount of money or access, every department has a budget. There's as many or more cars out there than people. The government doesn't and won't ever know of every car still running in billy bob's shed. Especially on older cars, new OEMs yeah maybe. But at this point there's 100 years of roadworthy cars that we have to play with so who cares.

If you've thought of it then they already have too, and can they do it? Yes they can.. Whatever that is..

Like TOB said, support Sema, if we all band together we can at least draw this out longer.

 

[FordMoCo21]

If you've thought of it then they already have too, and can they do it? Yes they can.. Whatever that is..

Like TOB said, support Sema, if we all band together we can at least draw this out longer.

What is supporting SEMA though? Do you pay something or what, their site frankly makes it difficult to see where they stand in relation to all this. There's some research papers but that's not what we're talking about.

If they could find a way to reach out to the hundreds of thousands or even millions of car enthusiasts, they'd have a better shot. Word of mouth doesn't seem to be working too well.

 

[Fastback]

My '03 has cats, O2s, EGR...etc still functioning. Passes emissions every time without question. Obviously it's tuned. How does this affect someone like me? Or does it not because I've "followed the rules" by not removing/disabling/tampering with emissions nannies?

Didn't another guy on the terminator talk, say he had all the stock items on the car, and a stock tune, but re-flashed with an Sct tuner. He was denied the California ref. The tester said, needed re flashed tune from a Ford dealer. Even of he loaded a stock tune. Ot was not done by Ford. So if you move somewhere like Ca, you might need a few things to pass.

 

[scott9050]

#Facebooked

Wait....did you just....

I got hope for you Brad.View attachment 1692408

Sent from my SM-G973W using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Sent from my SM-G988U using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Tob]

What is supporting SEMA though? Do you pay something or what, their site frankly makes it difficult to see where they stand in relation to all this. There's some research papers but that's not what we're talking about.

If they could find a way to reach out to the hundreds of thousands or even millions of car enthusiasts, they'd have a better shot. Word of mouth doesn't seem to be working too well.

Sigh....it doesn't sound like you spent much time on their site. This isn't even closely related to word of mouth. There is far more than just "some research papers" there.

Start here as to why you should become a member, click on the links, and educate yourself about what they are about and what they can do for our community.
Membership

You can lost here at their government affairs page too.
Government Affairs

As an individual, you can register here at SEMA Action Network to stay on top of what is going on with the industry and politics.
Home | SEMA ACTION NETWORK

And I urge everyone to fill this out.
Save Our Racecars!

 

[FordMoCo21]

Sigh....it doesn't sound like you spent much time on their site. This isn't even closely related to word of mouth. There is far more than just "some research papers" there.

Start here as to why you should become a member, click on the links, and educate yourself about what they are about and what they can do for our community.
Membership

You can lost here at their government affairs page too.
Government Affairs

As an individual, you can register here at SEMA Action Network to stay on top of what is going on with the industry and politics.
Home | SEMA ACTION NETWORK

And I urge everyone to fill this out.
Save Our Racecars!

First of all, it literally says in the FAQs that paid membership is only eligible for businesses and not individuals. Second, this is word of mouth, this is not public knowledge or even being advertised as far as I can tell. And I go to a **** ton of car/racing events every year. The fact that you have to lay all this out should tell you enough that it's word of mouth, at least on the individual level.

From what I can tell they're focused on actual business sponsorship/membership. Which makes sense as far as money goes. But this still doesn't answer the question of how individuals can ACTUALLY help. Why they aren't at every cars and coffee in the country and every drag racing event, with a booth, educating people and asking for donations/setting up individual memberships is beyond me.

Edit: filled out the RPM Act letter to Senators and local press. For whatever that's worth.

 

[Corbic]

My question still stands that their authority does not extend to personal activities, but they don't seem to think that is the case.

I'm so glad that faceless alphabet agencies with no oversight help tell me what to do with my own property to make this a safer world. God bless America.


But they can't tell you what you can and can't do on your own private property.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a challenge to the policy with some of the diesel parts that if you even purchased an item, you were required to supply a VIN, which was then permanently black listed from registration and therefore street use.

What the hell are you all not understanding.

EPA has full regulatory control over what you do on your private property. Period.

You can't go burn a 55 gallon drum of toxic waste. You can't leave 15 bags of high-nitride fertilizer laying by the creek.

You will be fined if they catch you.

That's like saying you can snort crack or beat your wife as long as it's on private property. Or you can build your own automatic machine guns and cook moonshine... As long as it's on private property.

That's is not the case.

My understanding is their perspective is around the removal of federal controls, not necessarily what you're doing on private property. I don't like the comparison, but it feels akin to modifying a firearm to do things it shouldn't. If a vehicle/engine never had federal emissions in the first place, then you can't get in trouble for removing anything. So VIN-less vehicles *should* be out of scope for all this, but hard to say. I don't know of many(any?) engines that are strictly built for race use and never landed in an emissions controlled application.

Watch, all motorsports will eventually be required to meet emissions - and you'll see them all move to EV or just cease to exist.

 

[Deceptive]

I know what the EPA does, I had to deal with them on an occasion at the shop I worked at. My question still stands that their authority does not extend to personal activities, but they don't seem to think that is the case. They are there to ensure businesses and industries are compliant with regulations, not individuals enjoying a hobby.

The answer is clear in that they are overstepping their boundaries, and that is why we are having this discussion. Also, it's Biden's fault for unleashing them.

Except in the video Jon Lund II posted where he stated they checked their private not company owned vehicles for emissions stuff.


Joe Biden has sniffed here.

 

[Tob]

First of all, it literally says in the FAQs that paid membership is only eligible for businesses and not individuals. Second, this is word of mouth, this is not public knowledge or even being advertised as far as I can tell. And I go to a **** ton of car/racing events every year. The fact that you have to lay all this out should tell you enough that it's word of mouth, at least on the individual level.

From what I can tell they're focused on actual business sponsorship/membership. Which makes sense as far as money goes. But this still doesn't answer the question of how individuals can ACTUALLY help. Why they aren't at every cars and coffee in the country and every drag racing event, with a booth, educating people and asking for donations/setting up individual memberships is beyond me.

Edit: filled out the RPM Act letter to Senators and local press. For whatever that's worth.

The links I gave you could keep somebody busy for a month. Slow down and read, read, read. If you can't get anything from that I can't help you.

 

[TerminatoRS]

Didn't another guy on the terminator talk, say he had all the stock items on the car, and a stock tune, but re-flashed with an Sct tuner. He was denied the California ref. The tester said, needed re flashed tune from a Ford dealer. Even of he loaded a stock tune. Ot was not done by Ford. So if you move somewhere like Ca, you might need a few things to pass.

Yeah I read that one too, but figured that was more strictly a CA thing for the time being at least.

Someone make sense of this one for me: Here in WI, Dane County does not require emissions testing. The capitol city of Madison is in Dane County. The democratic stronghold in this state and no emissions? Figures I live in 1 of the 5 WI counties that do require testing.

 

[SonicDTR]

Right. Should be pretty easy to fix a basic X3/X4 SCT though I would think. Computer repair shops I'm thinking. I doubt they'd have a clue what the device even does or that it's illegal lol. If not, some guy in his basement will repair them.

Tuning will move to out of country. My guy is in Venezuela and could give 2 shits about the EPA lol. I do worry if/when he stops tuning though... Just need VMP or somebody to bite the bullet and move to Saudi Arabia or somewhere and setup shop.

Edit: I'm gonna go ahead and get another X3 just for a spare. I know the tunes are based on serial number, but if it's not the motherboard that breaks most anything else should be repairable via another device.

Device repairs are a thing, but it's mostly a very shady market. Usually found in FB groups and resorting to PMs. I would much prefer it be legit and up front like a phone repair store.

I know of tuners that moved to Canada and offshore already. Also a benefit of cloud-based solutions, if they take advantage of using other regions for their data/operations. We'll probably see more of both. But ultimately if they still have a US presence they will get hammered. Going completely out of country and hoping things don't get caught in customs just sounds miserable.

Watch, all motorsports will eventually be required to meet emissions - and you'll see them all move to EV or just cease to exist.

Formula-E (the go kart type) seems pretty big in engineering schools. Several buddies have worked on some impressive setups a couple years ago. I don't follow it closely, but F1 is now down to a 1.0l + Hybrid already too, so full EV isn't far away imo.

 

[SecondhandSnake]

What the hell are you all not understanding.

EPA has full regulatory control over what you do on your private property. Period.

You can't go burn a 55 gallon drum of toxic waste. You can't leave 15 bags of high-nitride fertilizer laying by the creek.

You will be fined if they catch you.

That's like saying you can snort crack or beat your wife as long as it's on private property. Or you can build your own automatic machine guns and cook moonshine... As long as it's on private property.

That's is not the case.

That's a willfully obtuse interpretation. My point was more regarding VINs and operating vehicles on your property. You can operate whatever shitbox you want on your private property, VIN or not, doesn't matter if it's been blacklisted in the past.

You can't tamper with or dismantle emission equipment. That they can enforce, private property or not. Hell, if you're so much as leaking any fluids from your car they can fine you.

 

[FordMoCo21]

IMSA Extends Partnership with U.S. Department of Energy For Its Green Racing Program | IMSA

And the same for NASCAR. These series have been close with the EPA for years now, so I don't see them "going away", but I do agree it will be a harder push towards hybrid, alternative fuels, and eventually electric. But the manufacturers are doing that anyhow.

I think the cutoff line is the grassroots and hobbyists. And I guess SEMA is our only hope and the RPM Act. There's quite a few Republicans and Democrats (even some from Cali) that are for the RPM Act. The more people that write to their Senators the better. Sign and have your friends sign.

Save Our Racecars!

 

[tones_RS3]

Wait....did you just....
I got hope for you Brad.View attachment 1692408

HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Were you drinking beers and eating "THE BOSS" pizza when that photo was taken?!?!
LOL

 

[tones_RS3]

The people that think this is no worry situation, you're completely incorrect.
Maybe watch the videos out there by the 2 workers from Lund Racing to actually see what is going on?? Maybe,........???
LOL

 

[Adower]

Didn't another guy on the terminator talk, say he had all the stock items on the car, and a stock tune, but re-flashed with an Sct tuner. He was denied the California ref. The tester said, needed re flashed tune from a Ford dealer. Even of he loaded a stock tune. Ot was not done by Ford. So if you move somewhere like Ca, you might need a few things to pass.

Yes. From what I remember the ODBII computer they use in CA can somehow read if there is a tune on the car. Something about some digits that somewhere that the ODBII computer looks at which are altered when a tune is put on.

 

[Rb0891]

Yes. From what I remember the ODBII computer they use in CA can somehow read if there is a tune on the car. Something about some digits that somewhere that the ODBII computer looks at which are altered when a tune is put on.

I believe there is a counter. When a tune is installed, counter changes and cannot be changed back even if the tune is removed. That is how my Buick works.

 

[FordMoCo21]

These are the absolute BADDEST cars on the planet, and I suggest anyone that hasn't seen them in person go within the next 1-2 years before they're gone for good. Unfortunately we have to start thinking that way.