Clutch (In or Out) which is smarter?

[KingKobra]

I can't get a straight answer from anybody and I've combed the net, so I figured I'd get a good response from my peeps here in 03 land! :beer:

QUESTION:

When sitting at a light, what is the recommended position of the clutch and gearbox.... not so much for response time, but for clutch wear and free moving parts.

 

[VintagePorscheG]

can you say "THROW OUT BEARING"

good, I knew you could!

 

[Aharon]

Clutch is too heavy for me to leave depressed very long at a stop light. If I am only stopping for 20 seconds or so, I will leave the car in 1st. If greater then 20 seconds, my leg and foot starts to go numb, so I put it in neutral.

 

[KingKobra]

can you say "THROW OUT BEARING"

:burn: ouch, that burned

Well, like I said, I looked all over the net, asked different people but couldn't get a confident and straight answer, only speculation or habits.

Guess you gotta stick your neck out a little sometimes before anyone can chop if off clean. hehehe

 

[ho779]

Originally posted by VintagePorscheG
can you say "THROW OUT BEARING"

good, I knew you could!

I am assuming you mean keeping it in gear or out of gear with the clutch engaged will wear this out?

Care to elaborate for the clueless?

:shrug:

 

[Cobra'03]

I always put in neutral - if you sit with the clutch in, it puts extra strain on the throw out bearing and will hasten its demise.

I do the same with my Automatic - putting it in neutral reduces the temp and wear and tear on the tranny by reducing the buildup of heat in the torque converter - although I do this mostly if there is a long light or when a clear delay ahead occurs. It is amazing that you see people at a Railroad crossing sitting for 10 minutes with their tranny in "D" and their foot on the brakes.

 

[VintagePorscheG]

okay,

being that I am only an engineering wanna be I will do my best to share my experience with you.

(as someone says here - the path to true knowedge is paved with wasted money)

my first car (wasnt really mine but was one of dads extra cars) was a Porsche 914. The car was about 7 years old and had lots of miles but worked great. Never had a clutch problem. The next car I had was a new 1982 Camaro and in the first 12 months I went thru about 7 throw out bearings. Problem, coasting and sitting at lights with the clutch in.... So from then on when ever I drive a non Porsche I take the thing out of gear at lights and let the clutch free wheel instead of riding on the bearing. Who knows for sure but I have heard of others having the same trouble.

So to answer your question, I do it to save my bearing but it may not be really needed with this tranny and clutch. Then again, I don't know.

Plus my left leg is much larger now than my right leg from holding the clutch in at stop lights and that was scaring me.... lol

 

[Snoker]

If it is a short red light, I shift to first gear and hold the clutch in. However a longer light, waiting in traffic or for a train, etc, ie more than 20 seconds or so, I go to neutral and release the clutch. This action provides three desired results. Less wear and tear on the throw-out bearing, less stress on clutch springs/pressure plate and reduced effort on the left leg. A plus in my opinion. Although the 03 clutch is harder to compress than my 01 Cobra, it is still much easier than some large trucks I have driven.

Just my insight, although I have driven clutched vehicles on and off since 1961 and yet have had to replace a clutch, throwout bear or, for that matter, a transmission. Some luck and some non-abuse.

 

[Mordeth]

It is generally advisable to keep the clutch depressed for the shortest period possible. As such, at a stop, you should be in neutral with your foot off the clutch. This reduces wear and tear on the clutch pivot bearing.

BTW, on the road, an "engaged" clutch is when the pedal is "up" and the engine flywheel and the clutch disk are locked together, whereas a "disengaged" clutch is when the pedal is pressed down and the flywheel and clutch disk are rotating independently. In neutral, they are independent as well. IOW, if you are at a stop light and have the clutch "engaged" and are in 1st gear, the pedal is UP(not down) and you should know what will happen then. A disengaged clutch in first gear would consist of the pedal being held down(disengaging the flywheel from the clutch disk). Just wanted to clear up the terminology. In neutral the terminology is simply depressed or not depressed.

I also have a few questions. Has anyone with a Cobra tried double-clutching for downshifting? What about any toe-heel action?

Thanks.

Mordeth

 

[Cobra'03]

I do not see why d-clutching would be necessary, but it certainly would not hurt, although you are doubling the pedal strokes and associated mechanical workings each time.

Regarding heel and toe: the pedals are perfectly set up for h&t - I was making a long sweeping left and there were cars at the stoplight where i was crossing, and I executed a perfect heel and toe, caught 2nd just at the optimum RPM, and the sound was magnificent. This car is very well set up for track or hi=perf street engagements.

 

[SoCalBlk03]

Depends...If you're doing a Fast and the Furious impression then why not leave it in, hell it might improve your R/t. On the other hand if you like your clutch and don't feel like changing it till about 50K then leave it out. Lastly be sure your wife knows about your desired clutch habits. Every time mine drives the Cobra she gets a reprimand for burning my clutch up. I guess she thinks it's a race car or something....

 

[Petzuk]

While it's best to keep the clutch released/shifter in neutral while stopped (for me, just about any length of stoppage), don't forget to keep your hand from leaning or resting on the shifter while in gear. The gears don't like that.

Regarding toe/heal for shifting (actually left-side-of-foot/right-side-of-foot), the '03 brake and gas pedals are set up great for this. Very easy to punch the gas for a downshift while braking.

:beer:

 

[Mordeth]

Cobra'03, in regards to heel-toe, that was precisely the information I was looking for.

Thanks!

Mordeth

 

[dmreitz]

I had an '84 escort that I used to drive. Got rid of it in 1997 with 120,000 miles on it. When I drove that car, I beat the hell out of it... at stop lights, I used to rock the car back and forth using the clutch pedal in 1st gear. If that doesn't put stress on the throw out bearing, I don't know what does! I have to say that I never had ANY problems with that clutch - never had to double clutch - always performed like a champ.

Does this mean I recommend doing that on your 2003 Cobra - NO WAY!! Since I had the escort, I've had 3 additional cars with manual transmissions - 1997 Cavalier, 2001 Mustang GT, 2003 Cobra. In each of these I didn't want to put any extra stress on anything, so it just seemed natural to leave it in neutral with the clutch pedal "up".

I think it's a no-brainer (no flame intended) that leaving it in Neutral is less stress on the car... does this mean you're going to break something - maybe not (if my Ford Escort was any indication), but why chance it. My normal practice now is to leave it in Neutral at a light - when the cross traffic light turns yellow, I put the car in gear and depress the clutch to get ready to take off. Seems to work out fine, and I figure it's less stress overall...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[ZXnVS]

This ought to give everyone a good laugh: what precisly is "heel and toe" shifting?

Now keep in mind that I've been a motorcycle fanatic all my life and the Cobra is my first sports car, and in fact, my first car with a manual transmission. On a bike there's no conflict with the clutch, brake, and accelerator because they each have their own appendage. ;-)

From context and common sense I'm assuming that "h&t" is using your right foot to operate the brake and accelerator simultaneously, as you would when starting on a hill or, as mentioned, when downshifting while braking...?

One poster mentioned that it is really more "left and right side of foot" than "heel and toe." Is that the correct procedure? Any tips for a biker-turned-wannabe-sport-driver?

 

[03BlackMamba]

KingKobra....obviously with a screen name of such you should be familiar with the King Cobra......Clutch..... My Brad's Cutom Auto tech in Seattle's Little Old Lake City says.... "Don't Sit at a Light with the Clutch IN"........ www.bradscustomauto.com

 

[Mordeth]

Originally posted by ZXnVS
This ought to give everyone a good laugh: what precisly is "heel and toe" shifting?

Now keep in mind that I've been a motorcycle fanatic all my life and the Cobra is my first sports car, and in fact, my first car with a manual transmission. On a bike there's no conflict with the clutch, brake, and accelerator because they each have their own appendage. ;-)

From context and common sense I'm assuming that "h&t" is using your right foot to operate the brake and accelerator simultaneously, as you would when starting on a hill or, as mentioned, when downshifting while braking...?

One poster mentioned that it is really more "left and right side of foot" than "heel and toe." Is that the correct procedure? Any tips for a biker-turned-wannabe-sport-driver?

ZXnVS,

Heel and toe downshift is a classic racing technique used to drive fast around corners. Basically what you are trying to do is keep down the amount of time it takes to both brake and then accelerate, while downshifting and turning, to set yourself up to "explode" out of a corner(in the correct gear and at the correct speed). Depending on how close the accelerator and brake pedals are, and their relative height to each other will determine how easy it is to do it and whether it is a "heel - toe" or "left and right side of foot".

The steps involved(which includes double clutching in this example) are:

1 brake with the right foot (toe and ball of the foot) and hold

2 disengage clutch with the left foot

3 shift to neutral

4 reengage clutch with the left foot

5 blip throttle with the outer edge of the right foot, keep pressure on the brake pedal!

6 finish blipping (lift outer edge of right foot off throttle)

7 disengage clutch with the left foot

8 shift to lower gear

9 reengage clutch with the left foot

Here is a web site that explains it pretty well. Better than I probably could, and it some nice pic's to demonstrate.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.lasso

Also, heel-toe can be used on hills(as previously mentioned) to help prevent back-roll.

Mordeth

 

[ZXnVS]

Thanks, Mordeth, that was an excellent reply. And you didn't even take the opportunity to make a snide comment about my inexperience. ;-)

 

[03BlackMamba]

Mordeth -- Cool response.....

 

[Elliotness]

Nice, didn't have a clue what you guys were talking about.