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Clutch "Mod" Everyone Should Do

Discussion in 'SVT Shelby GT500' started by Willie, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. me32

    me32 BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS Moderator

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    Being that small wouldn't the fluid heat up too much? Didnt both the vetts and GTO have the issue with constantly having to drain and fill because the fluid would be break down too fast due to not having enough fluid?
     
  2. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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    I don't think it would be an issue for him...it is only the supply line and fluid storage and it gets circulated very slowly through the system via the MC pumping. The fluid up in that reservoir is not going to do much to cool the slave cylinder temps. I don't feel any real heat on my reservoir even when my engine has been running four hours. He can always install a slightly bigger reservoir. His supply line is also going to be longer than stock since he is remotely locating the unit. His unit looks like it will hold half as much as mine.

    Remember to get brake fluid supply line. Best bet is the BMW supply line hose from Ebay or Amazon. This is what I used since I didn't trust the Ford line.


    I also used two pinch clamps on both ends just to make sure I had no drips on my paint. I think you may have to remove the MC to change the supply line unless you butt the lines . I changed the whole line and I think I pulled my MC to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  3. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    Don't know, that is a good question. I had not heard of that, but as was mentioned above, the reservoir is a long way away from the real heat.......I wonder how much the exhaust system heat affects the discoloration of the brake fluid? Is that why For Racing engineered a pre-curved line that hugs the firewall to keep it away from the heat as much as possible in that area?

    R
     
  4. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    Did you replace your M/C reservoir with an auto trans. unit with no clutch nipple?

    R
     
  5. me32

    me32 BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS Moderator

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    Back when i was racing alot at the track. You would see vett and gto guys usings a turkey baster sucking the fluid out and replacing it with fresh fluid every few passes.
     
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  6. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    Did that do anything below the clutch master cyl.? How would that do anything except to put pretty fluid in the reservoir while leaving the other fluid below the clutch master still in place?

    R
     
  7. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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    I replaced my reservoir with an Auto one since I did not want to put a nipple on the clutch port. I don't think I would bother if I had to do it again since it caused me a lot of extra work.
    Just a cleaner looking install but a nipple would be fine too. Just remember that reservoir is held on by a long screw and not a rivet in case you try to remove it.

    My line down to the tranny was wrapped in a flexible factory metallic-like insulating shield since it was near the exhaust. I transferred that cover to my new SS line when I installed it.

    I used a large syringe to pull the fluid out of my reservoir and change it. The clutch MC appears to mix the fluid below it with the fluid above it at a pretty fast pace compared to the brakes. I can see the mixing within take place within a day or two. Too bad they still didn't sell different colored fluids or I would swap the color each time. By law they all have to be golden now. Believe me...you don't want those two systems exchanging fluids. My brake components are too expensive to mess with again. When my clutch goes I'll get a high end slave cylinder.
     
  8. me32

    me32 BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS Moderator

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    From what i was told it was constantly gear lock outs because the fluid would break down to fast due to reservois being too small not holding enough fluid to keep from Boiling on passes.

    Explains why ford went to a big shared brake reservoir on the 07-09 gt500.
     
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  9. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    I was thinking Ford saved money by not "also" installing a clutch reservoir, it was cheaper to share?........and then no way to bleed, from the factory........again, cheap!

    I am still confused about the turkey baster fluid removal. in the upper part of the clutch system?......Removing the fluid from the reservoir does nothing for the contaminated fluid that is actually doing the work, in the clutch master and below to the TOB. <<<If that fluid is not also removed, the workhorse portion of the system is still fully contaminated and new fluid is not going to replace or mix with that old fluid in any kind of timely manner.......not that I can think of......

    Maybe they were able to suck all of the fluid out of the system through the reservoir?, but then what about refilling and air in the system? IDK.......Those guys must have found some benefit.......OR someone on the internet had an opinion and led people down that path.....

    R
     
  10. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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    I don't think the brake master cylinder and clutch master cylinder work exactly the same. Brake fluid in the brake system reservoir usually doesn't get mixed much with the fluid in the system and it acts more like a supply when needed, probably a small channel to the reservoir supply. In the clutch system it seems that the piston may travel back further when the pedal is released allowing a larger volume area where the new and old fluids can intermix more compared to a brake MC. I can see the dilution take place in the reservoir within a few days of driving and my reservoir color has already changed slightly. It can't be from any heat in the upper part of the system since that is from the MC up the supply line to the reservoir and that is pretty far from any real motor heat. Putting new fluid in the reservoir will work its way down to the slave but it is a slow process over time and pedal action and it is simply a dilution process ...not a flushing process.
    There's no reason to bleed because there is no air introduced as long as the supply line does not go dry. Once the pedal is pushed slightly and the piston moves in a little, the opening channel to the supply line is closed and the hydraulic pressure can then start, forcing the mixed solution into the hydraulic line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  11. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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    I could kick myself because I just threw out my old solution and wipings from my clutch reservoir (really easy to clean compared to the brake one with built in channels) and I wanted to have it tested. It was cold out and I wasn't thinking straight.
    Since I now have spare time in the spring on my next cleaning I am going to filter it, dry it and have it tested to see if it is broken down brake fluid from heat, rubber abrasion particles from wear or the molybdenum disulfide grease used inside on the slave piston.
     
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  12. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    Yes, I would like to hear/read more about this........

    R
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  13. ShelbyGT5HUN

    ShelbyGT5HUN Well-Known Member Established Member

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    This guy, was/is a huge founder of the clutch fluid theory. Very popular on forums 10+ years ago. He made a video about our current discussion. Perhaps you will find this interesting.

     
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  14. Robert M

    Robert M 800 HORSE FUN!! Established Member

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    Thank you for that video.

    Ok, so then I still ask?...........If clutch dust is able to get by the TOB seal(s) and into the hydraulic system, why is the fluid not also getting by the seals, a pedal push creates great hydraulic pressure at the TOB seal(s) in comparison to clutch dust flying around in a non-pressured bell housing...............

    He did say he sent it to a lab and verified that it was in fact clutch dust. Are the seal lips on/in the TOB shaped in such a way that fluid pressure on the hydraulic side of the seal seals them well under pressure (which is the goal), but the other side of the seal allows the rough clutch dust particles to get by the back side of the seal and into the fluid.........I guess it could?......Maybe that is the issue?

    Seal lips are usually angled to seal in one direction, against the pressure and/or fluid side......

    THAT would be a Great reason to install the McLeod Clutch Bleeder.........Much easier than the turkey baster method and a much more complete flush of the system.


    R
     
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  15. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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  16. ShelbyGT5HUN

    ShelbyGT5HUN Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I really don't have an answer. I agree with you, "how can dust get in, and fluid won't leak out?" He did verify it was clutch material...
     
  17. XP900

    XP900 Active Member Established Member

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    I just tried the repeated reservoir changes after pumping the clutch -- only I had to pump about 200 -250 times each time after a reservoir change before the solution seemed to remain at the same consistency and color. It got lighter and clearer each time after a flush and repumping. I did it 5 times - used more than a quart but I 'm pretty confident it was slowly diluting the fluid in the entire system. After the fifth change I saw very little if any color change so hopefully most of the dust is out of the system. I will now just keep changing the clutch fluid every couple of thousand miles. I wish I had caught this problem sooner but I think separating the systems and flushing my brakes a couple of times last year stopped it before any brake damage was done.
     
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