cobra cams install

[na svt]

na svt: why would one cam be at 112 and the other at 119 that makes no senes???

Becaue that's how much slop/inconsistency there is in the timing system. I helped a guy this weekend and his exhaust cams were at 108 and 116.5, that would put the intakes at 120 and 112.5...not exactly hp producing lobe centers. Advancing the intakes 4 degrees would ahve put them at 108.5 and 116 which is still terrible.

This why I say to always degree the cams.

 

[na svt]

cus in my mide making the intake open sooner would increase low end torque (witch is what everybody says is the reason for doing this) then you must lose top end power(take from paul to pay peter as the saying goes) as these cars Suck on low end power any ways and I have 4.10's sitting in a box. I would rather have the little more upper rpm power as opposed to the minimal gain on the low end. If anyone has a dyno graph or and disprove my idea on how this works then please help thanks

Did you not read my earlier post:

"Not true at all, you can advance the cobra intake cams to a 106cl before it affects peak hp. The highest hp stock cammed/intake'd combo made 390rwhp with the cams at 106/118. The problem with not degreeing them is that you can end up with one cam at 112 and the other at 119 which absolutely kills power. I can't see doing all this work and not wanting to get the maximum benefit.
."

I've seen a 30ft lb increase by degreeing and advancing the cams without any reduction of peak power.

Installing the cams at a 108 ICL will make more average and peak power than if they are at 110, 112, 114 or even 118. The wide LSA and late ICL is the reason for the low tq, mid range hp and peak power of the stock engines. Theirs a reason the NMRA factory stock engines use the lower intake lobe centers and sure as heck isn't for more tq.

 

[RacerXHG]

FYI, ^^^Todd's the guru on these installs! :beer:
From the factory, there is allowable slop, room for error. Correcting said slop, will give you extra ponies. Advancing these cams, will give you some extra ponies. By advancing the intake cams, you're opening the intake valves sooner and giving less overlap on the exhaust side.


This will give you a visual idea of what's going on. Enter stock numbers, print out the page, enter advanced numbers, print that page out, overlay the two pages and hold them up to a light. http://classictiger.com/mustang/CamChart/CamChartCandDr1.htm

 

[watman02]

how can ford build and engine with that much slop in the timing??? that is crazy. Well if I didnt already have the engine back together and running I might look into that but at this time I dont have the time to re tear down the top end to install cam sprokets maybe down the road Ill do it again but I cant justify it to the wife(who is badgering me cus her cas has to sit out side while im doing this)

So when/if I degree the cams what is the number im looking for??? 106 for intake center line?? and 118 for exhaust????

 

[Chris _Scott]

how can ford build and engine with that much slop in the timing??? that is crazy.

It is crazy..isn't it? But that is just how it is. These engines are known from coming from the factory without ALL cams being degree'd properly.

I wish I had the time/tools to degree my cams when I installed mine.

 

[watman02]

I was feeling pretty good when i got the car running this morning but now im pissed:fm:
what a waste of time If you guys would only have showed up and told me this earlier I wouldnt have put it all together. not blaming you guys but if I had known that the cam timing could be off that f*cking much then I would have atleast checked. oh well I guess ill take the chance and see how it runs.

 

[fire_4_effect]

i would definitely not attempt that shit... LOL! i guess no cams for my cobra, unless i took it to a shop and had them do all the work.

 

[na svt]

It is crazy..isn't it? But that is just how it is. These engines are known from coming from the factory without ALL cams being degree'd properly.

Like all other production engines the cams aren't degreed properly because they aren't degreed at all. It's no different pushrod or sohc engines except for the fact that they have fewer parts to add to the slop.

 

[na svt]

how can ford build and engine with that much slop in the timing??? that is crazy. Well if I didnt already have the engine back together and running I might look into that but at this time I dont have the time to re tear down the top end to install cam sprokets maybe down the road Ill do it again but I cant justify it to the wife(who is badgering me cus her cas has to sit out side while im doing this)

So when/if I degree the cams what is the number im looking for??? 106 for intake center line?? and 118 for exhaust????

108/116 may require fewer new parts.

 

[watman02]

na svt: what do you mean new parts you mean cam sproketes????/

 

[na svt]

na svt: what do you mean new parts you mean cam sprokets????/

Yes.
The easiest/cheapest way to get the cams where you want is to go with the TFS crank gear and two, cloyes hp-9 cam gears, but that requires removing the front cover.

 

[RacerXHG]

BTW, in case anyone needs the Cloyes part #'s:
Gear: S790HP9
Woodruff Key: P9139
You would need two of each to advance the intake cams.

 

[watman02]

RacerXHG you know how much those parts cost???/?

 

[na svt]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-S790HP9/
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=p9139&dds=1Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51800505 - Trick Flow® Replacement Adjustable Crank Sprockets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

 

[watman02]

Wow, if that was all the parts extra I needed then I really should have done some more research on doing this. I guess Ill wait for next year and do it then.
thanks for the help guys

 

[Sniperdog]

How does it run??

 

[watman02]

it ran pretty good the other day but I had some trouble getting my new tune in my sct tuner so I had to re flash the car back to stock before i loaded the tuner and there not open on the weekend to call so waiting till monday. but ill let you guys know when I get it running

 

[watman02]

Update

ok heres the update cars done cams are installed at facroty degreeing and on the factory tune with my other mods car pulled a little better but not very noticable. finally after SCT having to remote hook up to my computer to bring back my tuner from the blue screen on death. and got the custom tunes from Bamma installed with the mid grade tune (they gave me 3 different tunes for it) it pulls HARD now harder than it ever had before (and it had a Bamma tune in it before) but this new tune with the cams and maybe a little help from the intake spacer too WOW there is a difference let me tell you I gota give props to the Bamma guys. so now its off to the track in 2 weeks when it opens to see what it runs now.
Ill keep you posted.

 

[VADEi2]

Cloyes Gear S790HP9 - Cloyes Gear Camshafts & Valvetrain - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Search Results for p9139 - SummitRacing.comTrick Flow Specialties TFS-51800505 - Trick Flow® Replacement Adjustable Crank Sprockets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

So on these buy two of the first 2 and just one of the last correct?op:

 

[na svt]

So on these buy two of the first 2 and just one of the last correct?op:

yes