• Welcome to SVTPerformance!

Coyote vs ls motor's

Discussion in 'Road Kill Drive-Thru' started by wtfMACH1?, Jan 18, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    With proper gearing and traction, every bit of low 12's and maybe even high 11's, but that may take a few bolt-on's. I'm talking 4.56 gears (what it takes to put the Camaro near the top of 4th at the traps) and drag radials, preferably a smaller diameter than stock because 4.56 gears still put the Camaro at 123mph at the top of 4th. I think some 295-315 series sticky street tires and a 4.10 or greater gear would get the Camaro solidly into the low 12's with a good driver/conditions.

    Do you guys realize how TERRIBLE the Camaro gearing is for the track!?! I'm gonna keep saying it until I am blue in the face. The Camaro would be a completely different animal with nothing but gears and tires to take advantage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  2. mebetter

    mebetter Member Established Member

    Messages:
    634
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Location:
    Choctaw, Oklahoma
    What are you trying to say that 20" gears is not ideal for drag racing? lol jk
     
  3. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    A scan of a time slip is only evidence of what the car ultimately ran. No it's not always easy to see if someone is making more power. People aren't always there to verify the car didn't have DRs, or a couple things taken out of the interior. There also aren't always videos. Someone could easily have a K&N drop in or a super mild tune and trap 2-3mph higher than everyone else.


    Nineball and some of the other guys on that list had LS1 fbody records, I'd say they are good drivers. Like I said, 75% of the times on there are 13.3s and up, the others are the small minority. Combined with the trap speeds that reflects what the car is capable of on average.

    I agree, but like you said a lot of other advantages swing the other way as well.

    I agree, it has other factors working against it, which is why IMO, it will only be 3tenths or so quicker. If it had a better weight balance and bigger tires it would put a much bigger distance on the Camaro.

    :beer:
     
  4. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    :pepper::banana:
     
  5. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    You would notice if they were running DR's by the unusually low 60' time. I also think you would notice 2-3mph greater trap speeds as a severe outlier. For example, if you saw a 1.7 60' time you would be darn sure it wasn't on stock tires and a 1.8 would get you questioning although it can be done on street tire. Same if you saw a 113mph trap speed. That isn't the case though for these 12.6 second passes. We are seeing legitimate 60' times and trap speeds and the one car was a shops car that was running baseline numbers and was verified to be stock by video I believe.

    That is a fair way to look at it I guess, although I do think we will see the times improve as drivers get more seat time and more go to the track. If we go by this way of thinking, "average" times are something like 12.8 or slower for GT500's and 03/04 Cobra's, 13.6 or slower for 2010 Mustang GT's??? It's all relative.
     
  6. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    What was the short time on that [email protected] pass? Like I said, I'm not calling anyone out, I'm just saying a list of fastest "stock" cars should be taken with a grain of salt, (especially the few that are way quicker than the average by 3-4tenths). That goes for Mustangs as well, there are guys claiming 12.8s 12.9s in "bone stock" Mach1s which I find hard to swallow as well.


    When I said average, I didn't mean what an average driver would run, I'm talking averages between the "fastest" passes recorded. Sorry I should have worded it better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  7. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Believe it was a 1.9. Nothing crazy. Like I said, there is a video of that car. That 12.6 seams pretty legit and it makes sense as it was in great weather. It was actually a Mustang guy driving that car so I don't see any reason for him to lie.

    Ok, but the Cobra and GT500 have had YEARS of people running their cars and adding new fast passes. The Camaro has had 6 months. It is WIDELY accepted, dont think anyone will disagree with me here, that good drivers will run faster than standard magazine times (Evan Smith the exception). We are seeing times of 12.9, 13.0, 13.1, and 13.3 from the magazines for the Camaro. Give it time and most of that "fastest" list will look just like that. The Camaro is certainly a low 13 second car. GM wouldn't state its quarter mile at 12.9 if it wasn't atleast that fast because the fallout would be terrible.
     
  8. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    Did he back up that pass? [email protected]110mph with a 1.9 short time??

    How many stock fastest lists are there for Cobras? None! My argument is that a factory car is only capable of so much, whether it's been out for 1 month or 10 years. That's why I don't hold much water to these "fastest lists". People start to claim absurd times and it just isn't in the realm of what the car is truly capable of even with a great driver. Before you know it people will be claiming 12.2s stock, when 99% of stock Camaros are running nearly a second slower. Then you get a bunch of people claiming the Camaro is a low 12 second car stock. :lol1: and BTW, I don't mean to pick on the Camaro, I see it happen with a lot of platforms that have these "fastest stock" lists.

    I agree with you there, well driven the Camaro is most certainly a low 13 second car.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  9. mustangmanjeff

    mustangmanjeff Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    4,229
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Location:
    somewhereland mexico CT
    To sum it up

    shelbys = high 11'' sec car to high 12 sec 1/4 mile car stock (depending driver)
    03-04 cobra mid 12 sec car to low low 13 sec car stock (depending driver)
    new camaro high 12 sec car to low 13 sec car car stock (depending driver)
    new mustang = high 12 sec car ( be we will have to wait and see ) depending driver and tire.
     
  10. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Not sure, I will ask. Here is the link baseline 1/4 LSR Performance 12.615 - LS1TECH

    There is nothing crazy about the trap speed. It is certainly on the high side, but ee have seen the mags and other cars trap in the 110-111mph range. It is certainly explainable by the negative DA he ran in.

    I really don't think we will see any faster than maybe a 12.5 from the Camaro. I do think we will start to see a lot more 12.8's to 13.2's from people this spring.
     
  11. mebetter

    mebetter Member Established Member

    Messages:
    634
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Location:
    Choctaw, Oklahoma
    No way anyone is getting a gt 500 to run a high 11 bone stock. If a 500 hp 3000 lb z06 is a high 11 sec car no way a 3800 lb+ vehicle is running it.
     
  12. mustangmanjeff

    mustangmanjeff Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    4,229
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Location:
    somewhereland mexico CT
    Do you live under a rock? I sure hope you dont think a c6z06 will only run high 11's stock HAHAHAH


    You sir need to look around haha your very misiformed after all these pages you should kno I dont mean average joe will run high 11's, but people esp muscle mustang magazine has got high 11's out of stock gt500kr or new 2010+gt 500 with 540hp will run mid to low 12's and some get into low low 12's high 11's, the older 2007 500hp gt500 on the other hand will prob need some tire and driver mod to go deeper into 12's stock,

    ... high 11's in a 500hp c6z06 is a slow time, people have gotten them into low 11's high 10's stock you sir need to stop just going by car and drivers times lol :nonono:

    Do some research you will find
    gt500's stock or with just tire running anywhere from high 11's to high 12's

    and you will find stock c6z06 or dr' tire only to run anywhere from high 10''s to high 11's depending driver.

    remember driver mod in 500+hp cars make a big diff thats why theres a 1 sec 1/4 diff in most cases with both cars esp gt500 has small tires hard to run good times with no traction but driver mod makes the diff ;)



    2010 Ford Shelby GT500 - Shelby Shakedown

    We used a bag of ice and electric... read full caption

    We used a bag of ice and electric fans to cool the blower.Knowing max power could only be had with a cool blower, we let the GT500 sit for 45 minutes, with ice chilling the blower and the inlet elbow. We then aired the tires down to 15 psi., performed a Second-gear burnout and staged shallow. Using another 3,800-rpm launch and a smooth clutch release produced the best 60-foot time of the day (1.77), and after three clean powershifts, we were on our way to an 11.592 at 118.45 mph, just one tick off the best time in the KR.

    Considering the KR ran 11.589/122.16, we were pleased and decided to swap back the stock F1 rubber measuring 285/35ZR-19-inches. On our first try we ripped off a clean launch (1.91 60-foot) and despite spinning all the way through Second, we mustered an 11.95 at a screaming 120-plus mph. It was our best run on the stock tires. We attribute the big mph to the wheel spin and the shorter overall height. Looking back, the KR ran 11.928/120.77 on it's sticky 285/40/18-inch F1 tires.

    Ford has put together a stout package that is relatively affordable and has amazing potential. With a few tricks, just about anyone could run 10s and still enjoy all that Ford has engineered into the car. Now we just need a long-term tester to prove our point.

    2010 Shelby GT500 Scorecard
    Run 60-Foot 1/4-Mile/MPH
    1. 1.852 11.855/117.66
    2. 1.850 11.784/118.93
    3. 1.825 11.805/117.36
    4. 1.778 11.592/118.45
    5. 1.913 11.951/120.29*
    * Run with stock tires; all other
    runs with 26x11.5x17-inch Mickey
    Thompson E.T. Streets

    2010 Ford Shelby GT500 - Test Run Results - Mopar Muscle Magazine



    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_0608_2007_ford_shelby_gt_500/ford_racing.html


    There's another side to that story, however, and it's in a straight line. Ford's official quarter-mile time is a 12.5 at 116 mph, but engineers confide that when everything clicks on a sticky track, they occasionally see times as low as a 12.1. For a change, we actually had a dragstrip available at a press event, which was way cool. Sadly, there was a stiff headwind, a slippery track, and, in my case, a bad driver. I only managed a 13.0 pass but that was with the traction control off. Doing this on the slippery track with a heat-soaked car wasn't the best recipe. A press type on the next wave managed a 12.3. We have no doubt a skilled driver will put this thing in the 11s in stock form, though at higher launch rpm the familiar wheelhop seemed one of the few carryovers from the previous model.

    http://www.mustang50magazine.com/fe...08_2010_shelby_gt500/controlled_handling.html


    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.c...lby_mustang_gt500kr/quarter_mile_results.html

    theres plenty of 11's -12 sec 1/4 runs bone stock or with tire or driver mod :)

    slicks = 11.3,11.5,11.6 , dr's 11.6,11.7,11.9 stock= 11.8-12.6
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  13. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    It's the ET in correlation to the trap, it just seems odd a 3900lb car ran 12.6s with only a 110mph trap and a 1.9short time, especially with the stock gearing. What is the short time on all the other Camaros running [email protected]?
     
  14. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

    Messages:
    13,618
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Location:
    IL
    The Z06 is capable of a lot quicker times than high 11s.

    The 2010s have run low 12s high 11s but it's rare and I don't consider it to be what a good driver can do on average.

    2010 Ford Shelby GT500 - Test Run Results - Mopar Muscle Magazine

    "Considering the KR ran 11.589/122.16, we were pleased and decided to swap back the stock F1 rubber measuring 285/35ZR-19-inches. On our first try we ripped off a clean launch (1.91 60-foot) and despite spinning all the way through Second, we mustered an 11.95 at a screaming 120-plus mph. It was our best run on the stock tires. "

    The other guy is a forum member here, MD03SVT. He ran 12.0xs stock and then 11.3xs with slicks.

    http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/shelby-gt500-150/634829-new-times-2010-gt500.html

    With the slicks..
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJimYyH6VUI"]YouTube- Ted Lewchuk Shelby 2010 [email protected][/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  15. GTSpartan

    GTSpartan Yield right!!!! Established Member

    Messages:
    8,482
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    The Woods


    For the most part I agree, except for the 500 being an 11 sec car. To date, I think only one person has ever taken a stock GT500 of any kind into the 11's and his initials are ES. Just like I wouldn't call a Z06 a legit 10 sec car, even though it has been done.

    IMO,

    Low 11's for a Z06 with a great driver
    Low 12's for a GT500 with a great driver
    Mid 12's for a 2011 GT with a great driver
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  16. whipplecharged0

    whipplecharged0 New Member Established Member

    Messages:
    732
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Location:
    texarkana
    Wow, this thread has gotten completely off topic...
     
  17. mustangmanjeff

    mustangmanjeff Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    4,229
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Location:
    somewhereland mexico CT
    :poke:


    some people just live under a rock


    :banana:
     
  18. GTSpartan

    GTSpartan Yield right!!!! Established Member

    Messages:
    8,482
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    The Woods
    We're at 13 pages, and at this point, it's impossible not to. Every possible argument related to the original topic has been discussed at least twice!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  19. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Not sure of others 60' time but I would expect 2.0x to 2.1x as that is pretty common on street tires. A 1.95 60' on street tires is damn good. The best 60' I have ever seen from a factory RWD car on street tires is in the 1.8x range from some Corvettes.

    As for the trap speed, you need to remember the negative DA the guy ran in on that pass. The car was essentially making more power that day than that of the other people's Camaros on the list. This is the same way some ran 11.8 and 11.9 in a C5 Z06.
     
  20. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Its just some car buddies shootin the shit now. But it helps to pass the time at work.

    Do you still have your Viper Spartan? I haven't seen it in your sig in quite a while. I'm saving for a 04-05' SRT-10 myself. Prices are really coming down and I have always wanted a convertible and loved the side exit exhaust. I like the Gen 1 Vipers too, but they just aren't even close to practical with no windows and such. It would be terrible to get caught in the rain as I would find myself trying to make a human umbrella to keep the water out!!!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page