Damage due to no clutch spring?

Softballer77

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So, I was going through a few sites knocking out a few things on my wishlists and happen to come across a replacement clutch spring on one of the more popular sites that helps in the same way of us removing ours, but is just a different amount of spring-rate. (200lb-in stock, their's is 95lb-in). But what they stated in their advert interested me...

Most owners fail to realize the prolonged effects of simply taking out your factory OE spring and not replacing it with another spring. By negating your factory clutch assist spring you will notice chatter/NVH from your clutch pedal. Your clutch pedal will never fully return to stock position without any assist spring, and over time your slave cylinder may begin leaking due to constant pressure on its seals from the clutch pedal not returning to the stock position.


Now, my concern is I drive my car a lot (25k+ miles) and i've had numerous clutch issues spoken about on these forums. Mostly with Ace clutches (two of them in a row), but there has always been this squeak right before the clutch is about to go out. I always thought it was due to the disks getting down to the rivets on the clutch as they really ate themselves up. Anyways, interested in what maybe Van or a few others may have in regards to input on this.

Am I better replacing the stock spring with a different spring than just having it removed?

Is removing the spring completely though it feels more linear and prevents my clutch pedal from sticking on full throttle/quick shifting doing damage to my clutch/throwout?

Is their advertisement just a ploy to get us to purchase?

Thanks.


 

Snoopy49

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The over center spring or clutch assist spring is there to help lower the pressure required to push down the clutch pedal. it is not a clutch pedal return spring. If you look at the top of the clutch pedal arm you will see the clutch return spring, note there is a similar return spring at the top of the brake peddle arm.
Do the 2007-2012 GT500's have an over center spring?

2013 Shelby GT500 Chassis Development - Total Package

Hydraulically, the need was to increase flow volume, so SVT increased the master cylinder bore diameter. This reduced the hydraulic leverage in the system at the same time the clutch spring pressure had been increased, so clutch pedal effort rose considerably. An over-center spring was therefore added to the pedal arm to drop pedal effort back to something similar to the '12 level, but ultimately the end result is that the '13 clutch is a little heavier to the driver.

2013 Shelby GT500 Pedal Assembly.jpg

Mainly a carryover item for '13, the pedal assembly uses a lightweight composite bracket to mount the brake and clutch pedals. The brake pedal and master cylinder are unchanged, but the clutch is rigged with a new master cylinder and an effort-reducing over-center spring. The new spring is easy enough to see here; the coil spring is mounted vertically, parallel to the clutch pedal arm. Grease points and nylon bushings keep it quiet.
 
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Softballer77

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Thanks for that Snoopy. However, the spring they show in the advertisement looks identical to the clutch assist spring. Not like the clutch return spring. I'd post the link for the web sale page of said item, but not sure if I'm allowed to on this forum?

Part of me that makes me wonder is, shortly after I removed my clutch assist spring, my stock clutch went out. I installed an Ace twin disk, and it lasted appr 4k miles of mostly daily driving, a couple rallys, and one day at the strip. When it was pulled, I sent pictures to Darryl who is the rep at Ace, and the first thing he said was it looked as if the clutch pedal was partially actuated at all times in order for it to eat up that clutch like it did. He even said "looks like it could have been eating itself merely sitting at a stop light if you keep your foot off the pedal". They replaced the first one under warranty, and the second Ace last around the same amount of time. It's toast. But I'm just still hung on his statement with seeing this...
 

Snoopy49

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Steeda has the lighter replacement over center spring. Do you feel any slop at the top of your clutch pedal travel? If removing the over center spring would cause possible clutch damage, why don't the pre 2013 GT500's have an over center spring?

No mention of the GT500.
Purchase your Steeda S197 Mustang Clutch Assist Spring 95 lb/in for your 2011-2014 Mustang GT, V6 or Boss at Steeda Autosports today!

Some of these cars don't have a clutch return spring at the top of the clutch pedal, so the over center spring acts as a pedal return spring.

With clutch return spring (Without OC Spring), With OC spring (no pedal return spring), 2013-14 GT500 assembly with both OC and return springs.

Pedal Assemblies.jpg
 
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Softballer77

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I see what you're saying Snoop, but I don't know. No, I don't feel any slop, but wouldn't you want to feel a tad? If there is no slop, that means it's tight on the throwout either at the edge of actuation, or it's already actuated slightly Steeda is a known Mustang part carrier. I'm reading 6 pages of reviews from people who have gone to this spring. I'm not saying that's everything, but 6 pages of reviews (even if a couple were planted) has to say something no? Are we saying Steeda is b.s.ing entirely?

When you get to where you are putting your 4th clutch in within 25k miles, trust me when I say you rack your brain a bit on what the heck is going on. I just dropped another $2k the other day with Van on ANOTHER replacement. It's not fun...lol. So, this brought up an interesting point...
 

Snoopy49

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I think the spring is aimed at the cars without the return spring.
When I talked about slop, I was talking about with the pedal released. If removing the OC spring causes clutch damage, why don't the pre 2013 cars have OC springs?

As far as the glowing reviews are concerned and assuming some are from 2013-14 GT500 owners, replacing the heavy spring with the lighter spring would give you better pedal feel than with the heavy spring.
 
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Softballer77

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Yes, with the pedal released. That's what I thought you meant as far as slop, and was what I meant as well. I have no play in the pedal when it's fully out, which I should have a tad really to know it's been fully released. See what I'm saying?

To answer your question about why the pre 2013s don't have them, i don't know. But the advertisement is for all S197 11-14 Mustangs.
 

Snoopy49

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They appear to be talking about the non GT500's. No where does it mention GT500.
Purchase your Steeda S197 Mustang Clutch Assist Spring 95 lb/in for your 2011-2014 Mustang GT, V6 or Boss at Steeda Autosports today!

Look under fitment.

Model Year(s)
2014 2013 2012 2011

Model(s)
3.7L V6 5.0L GT Boss 302 GT V6

Transmission(s)
Manual
 

Snoopy49

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Yes, with the pedal released. That's what I thought you meant as far as slop, and was what I meant as well. I have no play in the pedal when it's fully out, which I should have a tad really to know it's been fully released. See what I'm saying?

The master cylinder is what stops the pedal when the pedal is released. So if you can't pull the pedal towards you, the master cylinder is fully released and up against its internal stop. You can't get anymore released than that.

To check engagement point, start car and slowly depress the clutch pedal until you hear a whirling sound this is when the throwout bearing contacts the clutch diaphragm spring. Then slowly release pressure on the pedal until the sound goes away. This is the where the TOB is no longer in contact with the clutch. Any movement of the pedal pass this point is free play and the TOB is clear of the clutch.
 

Softballer77

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It doesn't say GT500 and I noticed that, but i know alot of the webpages for our parts aren't exactly precise in listing what they are for sometimes. Especially when it comes to the year. I read S197 so figured it was for all. I see the other part as well though.

And if it's squeeking right when i begin to hear the noise when i'm pressing the pedal...what would the squeek potentially be?

I can hear that as soon as my foot begins to put weight on the pedal.
 

Snoopy49

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That's the throwout bearing spinning up. If it is loud, it is probably dry and needs replacing.
 
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Snoopy49

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Well, i've put 3 in it in 25k miles (new one with every clutch change). Something isn't right somewhere...

Did you also change the clutch line? Maybe you have the wrong clutch slave/tob? Depending on the YM, they come in different lengths.
If you are worried about the absence of the OC spring, spend the $23 and get the Steeda. I think it is to weak to hold the pedal down under power and may make it easier to press down on the pedal. But I don't think it is the cause of your clutch problems.
 

Softballer77

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Did you also change the clutch line? Maybe you have the wrong clutch slave/tob? Depending on the YM, they come in different lengths.
If you are worried about the absence of the OC spring, spend the $23 and get the Steeda. I think it is to weak to hold the pedal down under power and may make it easier to press down on the pedal. But I don't think it is the cause of your clutch problems.

The last slave was purchased from Van for a '14. So I'm sure it's good to go as far as being the correct one.

I may get it. After all, if it eases the clutch heaviness while still feeling linear and doesn't have issues like the stock spring of the clutch pedal sticking to the floor when trying to speed shift, then sounds like a winner to me. It may not be the culprit of my clutch problems, but from Steeda's comment along with the rep from Ace asking me about the same thing....well i guess it can be taken for what it's worth.
 

Norton

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+1 to Snoopy's inputs.

I pulled my clutch assist springs thousands of miles ago. Those miles include almost 25 mile and one-half mile race passes between 150 and 170 MPH. To date, I have ZERO noises/problems with my OEM clutch. (FWIW, I also replaced my stock clutch line with a stainless steel one from Van and swapped the fluid for Brembo LCF 600 fluid.)
 
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Softballer77

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+1 to Snoopy's inputs.

I pulled my clutch assist springs thousands of miles ago. Those miles include almost 25 mile and one-half mile race passes between 150 and 170 MPH. To date, I have ZERO noises/problems with my OEM clutch. (FWIW, I also replaced my stock clutch line with a stainless steel one from Van and swapped the fluid for Brembo LCF 600 fluid.)

Thank you Gents.
 

SlowVert

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I just added the Steeda spring to a stock '14 with 4K on it.... basically the clutch feels exactly the same as before (pressure wise) through the majority of it's travel (about 1/3 pedal to floor) - but when first engaging the clutch - that first 1/3 pedal of travel feels much smoother and consistent (linear)... which makes driving the car (from stops) a bit easier as the pedal pressure has an even feel - not that springy sensation with the stock part. Once moving and shifting through the other gears - you won't notice much of a difference if any.

J.
 

Softballer77

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I just added the Steeda spring to a stock '14 with 4K on it.... basically the clutch feels exactly the same as before (pressure wise) through the majority of it's travel (about 1/3 pedal to floor) - but when first engaging the clutch - that first 1/3 pedal of travel feels much smoother and consistent (linear)... which makes driving the car (from stops) a bit easier as the pedal pressure has an even feel - not that springy sensation with the stock part. Once moving and shifting through the other gears - you won't notice much of a difference if any.

J.

Good to know people have an alternative to just removing the entire assembly. I ordered one as well.
 

Xtreme_lyb

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I'm new to MT82's and I was gonna post this same question, thank God I use the search lol. I've learn a lot from this post and I want to say thanks. I removed the spring a while back because pedal got stuck one time at the track, not the nicest thing to happen. I recently bumped with this website you r talking about and they state that slave would leak because of no spring. After reading this thread, I checked my pedal assembly and it has the one without return spring, but the movement the pedal has it's not enough so IMO it's not enough pressure or no pressure at all for it to damage anything. In all this time, has anyone without spring has had any issues???


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