datalogged - need some advise/help

[lightning25]

I currently have the JLP CAI and decided i wanted to block out the hot air from the engine. so i installed another "ram air" tube from the fender wall out to the front of the bumper, i also made a metal plate to go on top of the intake box. i insulated the entire box with dynomat as it can help to reduce a lot of heat.
the install went great, with a few minor issues installing.

While test driving after wards to see the rewards of the intake temps (and they do stay low to the ambient air for the most part), i did notice a reduction in blower whine! so i datalogged, here are the results.....

this test is with the metal intake plate on (notice the a/f while i'm at open loop)

this test is with the metal plate off (and a very noticeable increase in blower whine - and again notice the a/f at open loop)

this last test is just a double check with the intake plate on to ensure the results are accurate (again notice the a/f)

i need some advice.
obviously this must be due to the plate covering the intake from the motor and the motor isn't getting enough air, even with two 3" pipes going out to the front bumper.
i have noticed a drop in intake temps while driving, but obviously at the cost of the blower whine and the a/f.
should i just take off the plate and deal with the temps or get re-tuned??

has anyone else tried to lower intake temps successfully??

Sean

 

[wydopnthrtl]

I'm not sure what the problem is?

I've done a lot of toying with this too. And on many different vehicles including my 2002 Lightning.
What I've ended up concluding is to use the largest conical filter that will fit, and either make it totally sealed off with the largest possible "box" and tubes that will fit. OR.. a heat deflector shield that deflects & slows the heat coming from the engine when at speeds below 10mph.

I've also found that no matter how large the cold air box surrounding the filter it'll cost you a bit of power on the top end.

For my Lighting I just have a "L" shaped shield that covers the back / bottom / MAF sides of the filter. This has proven pretty effective at keeping the filter dry and prevent heat soaking during a typical 30-45 second red light / stop sign type of stop.

Here is a interesting datalog from my ranger doing a open filter commute. I've since made a fully enclosed cold air box w/ram air from the grill opening.
I can data log "TQ into convertor" and calc HP from it. With the box in place I loose about 5-6HP above 4000rpms. (even though my openings to the grill are much larger than the MAF diameter)



Regards,
Rich

 

[lightning25]

the problem is how high my a/f is at WOT with the metal plate restricting engine bay air. I think the two 3" tubes cannot carry enough air to satisfy the current tune and is leaning out my motor.
My question is has anyone developed or seen an effective way to have lower intake temps while still allowing a lot of air flow for a 6lb/ported eaton motor? While crusing my intake temps are only a few degrees off ambient, but if the truck is sitting like at the track those numbers climb significantly!

wydopnthrtl i currently have the JLP intake that has a 12" conical filter, along with a box that just has an opening at the top (hence my metal plate i made to cover that opening) and two 3" tubes going under to the front bumper, basically the same as what you have said works best in your application. this obviously is not working for me as datalog shows the raised a/f, meaning i'm starting to lean out and then would actually lose power.

 

[themadgnome]

Well, by covering the box you have essentially restricted air flow (as already said) causing less air to get to the intake. Unfortunately, the cooler, more restricted air probably will not make up for the decrease in air flow.

With the cover you have installed, I am assuming it is pretty much air tight, so therefore it must create a vacuum suction with the 3" tubes you have running to the front bumper. From the sounds of it, the two 3" tubes may be too wide of diameter and too long to create an adequate suction to pull the air into the intake box.

Also, the fact that the tubes are running to the top of the box could be a problem as well depending on how sharp of a bend they create.

Lastly, the material of the tubes could play a part in restricting the vacuum suction. If they are too thin and flimsy, they could be restricting the flow of air to the intake. Furthermore, if there is any small leak in the piping, this could prevent the vacuum needed to suck the air into the intake.

As you can see, there are many variables involved. Basically, do you have a pic of this intake for us to see to determine how it is setup? Also, what material are you using for the piping?

Bottom line, you may be better off just leaving the air box open unless you are willing to do some testing and tuning of the setup.

 

[wydopnthrtl]

the problem is how high my a/f is at WOT ......... as datalog shows the raised a/f, meaning i'm starting to lean out and then would actually lose power.

I tune my own truck with Pro Racer and I really don't believe that restricting air flow would lean it out at WOT. I think if airflow was being restricted you'd see the opposite. It would get fatter (a lower a/f number). (I think so anyway)

You could prove (or dis-prove) this easily. Just take off the air box and go do a WOT pull watching the a/f. I'd be very interested in what you see happen.

Regards,
Rich

 

[voodoocustoms]

I'm just going to throw this out there.

As stated above if you restrict air flow into the motor, it should result in a richer charge.

With that being said, and looking at your results, I would say that the cooler (more dense) air charge is what is causing the leaner a/f readings.

Or I am just full of hot air, you decide. :shrug:

 

[lightning25]

Well, by covering the box you have essentially restricted air flow (as already said) causing less air to get to the intake. Unfortunately, the cooler, more restricted air probably will not make up for the decrease in air flow.

With the cover you have installed, I am assuming it is pretty much air tight, so therefore it must create a vacuum suction with the 3" tubes you have running to the front bumper. From the sounds of it, the two 3" tubes may be too wide of diameter and too long to create an adequate suction to pull the air into the intake box.

Also, the fact that the tubes are running to the top of the box could be a problem as well depending on how sharp of a bend they create.

Lastly, the material of the tubes could play a part in restricting the vacuum suction. If they are too thin and flimsy, they could be restricting the flow of air to the intake. Furthermore, if there is any small leak in the piping, this could prevent the vacuum needed to suck the air into the intake.

As you can see, there are many variables involved. Basically, do you have a pic of this intake for us to see to determine how it is setup? Also, what material are you using for the piping?

Bottom line, you may be better off just leaving the air box open unless you are willing to do some testing and tuning of the setup.

I don't have a pic, and the tubing runs in areas where you can't see anyway. The set-up i am using is JLP's intake, i added a 3" line flex tubing from spectre performance. i'm not sure the the exact material used, but its a fairly hard plastic. the tube that came with the JLP CAI comes in from the bottom and the one i added comes in from the side.

I tune my own truck with Pro Racer and I really don't believe that restricting air flow would lean it out at WOT. I think if airflow was being restricted you'd see the opposite. It would get fatter (a lower a/f number). (I think so anyway)

You could prove (or dis-prove) this easily. Just take off the air box and go do a WOT pull watching the a/f. I'd be very interested in what you see happen.

Regards,
Rich

I agree with you there about the a/f (after thinking about it for a few minutes). i would be seeing richer with less air. W/O the box my a/f gets leaner, but my intake temps do not cool down while cruising (disconnected the intake tubing that goes to the bumper, so it must work to some extent to get cooler air to the box and into the motor).

I'm just going to throw this out there.

As stated above if you restrict air flow into the motor, it should result in a richer charge.

With that being said, and looking at your results, I would say that the cooler (more dense) air charge is what is causing the leaner a/f readings.

Or I am just full of hot air, you decide. :shrug:

The only issue i have with the theory of my a/f only being leaner due to the cooler temps and then more rich in the higher temps is that last night i went racing and the whole night whether my IAT's were 115 or 80, my a/f stayed pretty much the same at just under 12 (this is w/o the metal plate - and i didn't bring it either, i should have). I also found that with the box insulated and the top plate on my IAT's rise to over 100 while at idle for a few min, and then drop while cruising to ambient after a few min. my whole point in this experiment was to help keep IAT's down while at the track sitting in the staging lanes as this can make the intake and charge temps rise like crazy! i think the way it was before made no difference in how hot/cold the intake temps were and i obviously LOVE the sound of the blower at WOT with more air entering the motor (w/o the metal plate). I guess i'm just going to have to live with hot temps and go with the KC to help cool the charge temps as they were upwards of 120-130 last night - on a 70 degree night! on a side note, i now have a big exhaust leak that i have to find:cryying:

 

[Cialis]

The air is flowing differently over the maf sensor depending on if the plate is on or off. Probably due to some turbulance caused by the plate, or lack of, that just happens to take place right over the sensor.
I think you should make a decision on how you want it and have it tuned that way, or do both and see what makes more power.