Deciding Between Wilwood 4P, Baer 6P, and 2K Cobra R Kits

[Wade_GT]

My end goal is more confidence inspiring brakes for canyon carving / and mountain pass drives. Currently I'm running an OEM Cobra PBR kit in front with Hawk HPS pads and start to experience some brake sponginess and fade after repeated high speed stops. I realize stainless lines and new fluid would be an improvement, but I want the next stage of capability which leads me to these three kits.

Does anyone have any experience or opinions on these?

Wilwood 4 Piston 14" Kit ($1,149)
Ford 96-04 Mustang Big Brake Kit - Sport COBRA only

2000 Cobra R 4 Piston 13" Kit ($1,197)
http://fordracingparts123.com/chass...it-m-2300-x/?gclid=CN_XpfzS6LsCFUZxQgodfiAAmQ

Baer 6 Piston Calipers for 13" Cobra Rotors ($1,250)
Baer 6 Piston Brake Caliper Upgrade Kit for 1994-2004 Mustang

Looking at the testing from Vintage Venom's 14" kit, it appears the larger rotor is able to keep the heat down, so I'm leaning towards the Wilwood kit which is also the least expensive.

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts/experience on these.

 

[99cobrajn]

go brembo/baer over that wilwood kit that the guy makes with wilwood calipers.

 

[Blkkbgt]

What brakes do you have on your car?

I am asking because everything in your sig leads me to believe you have GT brakes but you posted your question in the Terminator section. Do you have Cobra brakes?

If you have GT brakes I would not spend the cash on either of those kits. I would simply upgrade to a set of Cobra/Mach1/Bullitt brakes, add some quality pads and call it a day. For the driving that you are doing there simply isn't a reason to upgrade beyond that. Hauling ass through some canyon roads will not cause these brakes to fade.

Now if you already have Cobra/Mach1/Bullitt brakes then I seriously question your claims of brake fade. Now if they are in deed fading I would Want to find out why. I say this because many people track these cars with these brakes with nothing more then upgraded pads, high temp fluid and brake ducts without issue.

Now with that said if you still want to upgrade I would go with either the Brembo or Baer kit. Both will offer improved braking and I really don't think you can go wrong with either. the Baer kit uses C5 Corvette pads by the way which may give you more options. I am not sure what the pad cross reference is with the Brembo kit. If pad selection is the same I would get the Brembo kit because it comes with rotors.

 

[jrgoffin]

Brembo here...

Brakes & Wheels

 

[Wade_GT]

What brakes do you have on your car?

I am asking because everything in your sig leads me to believe you have GT brakes but you posted your question in the Terminator section. Do you have Cobra brakes?

If you have GT brakes I would not spend the cash on either of those kits. I would simply upgrade to a set of Cobra/Mach1/Bullitt brakes, add some quality pads and call it a day. For the driving that you are doing there simply isn't a reason to upgrade beyond that. Hauling ass through some canyon roads will not cause these brakes to fade.

Now if you already have Cobra/Mach1/Bullitt brakes then I seriously question your claims of brake fade. Now if they are in deed fading I would Want to find out why. I say this because many people track these cars with these brakes with nothing more then upgraded pads, high temp fluid and brake ducts without issue.

Now with that said if you still want to upgrade I would go with either the Brembo or Baer kit. Both will offer improved braking and I really don't think you can go wrong with either. the Baer kit uses C5 Corvette pads by the way which may give you more options. I am not sure what the pad cross reference is with the Brembo kit. If pad selection is the same I would get the Brembo kit because it comes with rotors.

Thanks for the feedback Blkkbgt. I have the Cobra PBRs up front, stock GT rears, and Hawk HPS all around. I have just over 3 year old Dot 3 fluid in the system which could be part of the weak link right now (a little spongy brake feel when hot).

Would the Baer kit provide repeated high speed stops within fade even with a 13" rotor?

Thanks!

 

[Blkkbgt]

Thanks for the feedback Blkkbgt. I have the Cobra PBRs up front, stock GT rears, and Hawk HPS all around. I have just over 3 year old Dot 3 fluid in the system which could be part of the weak link right now (a little spongy brake feel when hot).

Would the Baer kit provide repeated high speed stops within fade even with a 13" rotor?

Thanks!

No problem.

I am surprised you are having fade issues with those calipers up front. I push my car pretty hard on back roads and the only time I have seen any fade is with low dust ceramic pads and it was minimal at best. With HPS up front and DOT4 fluid I can't remember ever seeing fade.

If your fluid is that old I would try a complete flush with some DOT4. Even the Valvoline synthetic stuff is pretty good for a street car as it has a 500 degree boiling point. I ran that for years with no issue.

Have you considered some brake ducts to keep everything cool? Like I said many guys track these brakes with ducts and zero issues. It may be a low cost solution.

Have you thought about upgrading the rear to 11.65in brakes? I know the rear brakes don't do much on these cars but every bit helps. Upgrading the rear will help take a little load off the front end, Ford installed them for a reason.

Now with the Baer calipers I am not sure. I have never ran that kit nor do I know anyone who has/is. Being a 6 piston caliper you will notice a difference is breaking performance and I don't see why you would see any fade with that kit. I simply cant see spending that kind of $$$ on just calipers. If the kit came with rotors for that price, maybe.

My whole thought process here is not to spend more money then is needed. If you can get away with only spending $400 to get your braking where you want it then you can spend that $800 on other mods like suspension. I don't see rear coil overs on your list oke:.

 

[Todd TCE]

Please understand that the kit above it not a "Wilwood Kit" but rather a builders kit using only Wilwood calipers. All Mustang kits from Wilwood include 2pc hats and rotors and most are radial mount six pot caliper kits. And can be had in 13, 14 and 14.25" diameters.

If you're investing upwards of $1200 on caliper kits and some reworked rotors you're but a couple hundred bucks from the cost of complete kits with 2pc parts offering improvements in both weight and rotor qualities.

 

[Wade_GT]

Please understand that the kit above it not a "Wilwood Kit" but rather a builders kit using only Wilwood calipers. All Mustang kits from Wilwood include 2pc hats and rotors and most are radial mount six pot caliper kits. And can be had in 13, 14 and 14.25" diameters.

If you're investing upwards of $1200 on caliper kits and some reworked rotors you're but a couple hundred bucks from the cost of complete kits with 2pc parts offering improvements in both weight and rotor qualities.

Yeah, I was hesitant about the Wilwood "kit" using off brand rotors. I've come to trust Brembo and Centric rotors.

And yes, the weight of 1 piece 14" rotors is around 24-25 pounds which isn't as appealing.

The Baer 6 Piston kit is probably at the top of my list right now . I'd likely compliment it with Centric plain rotors and Goodrich lines.

 

[tomsgarage]

Upgrade your rear brakes, s/s lines, fresh fluid and spend the rest on a track day event.

 

[Wade_GT]

No problem.

I am surprised you are having fade issues with those calipers up front. I push my car pretty hard on back roads and the only time I have seen any fade is with low dust ceramic pads and it was minimal at best. With HPS up front and DOT4 fluid I can't remember ever seeing fade.

If your fluid is that old I would try a complete flush with some DOT4. Even the Valvoline synthetic stuff is pretty good for a street car as it has a 500 degree boiling point. I ran that for years with no issue.

Have you considered some brake ducts to keep everything cool? Like I said many guys track these brakes with ducts and zero issues. It may be a low cost solution.

Have you thought about upgrading the rear to 11.65in brakes? I know the rear brakes don't do much on these cars but every bit helps. Upgrading the rear will help take a little load off the front end, Ford installed them for a reason.

Now with the Baer calipers I am not sure. I have never ran that kit nor do I know anyone who has/is. Being a 6 piston caliper you will notice a difference is breaking performance and I don't see why you would see any fade with that kit. I simply cant see spending that kind of $$$ on just calipers. If the kit came with rotors for that price, maybe.

My whole thought process here is not to spend more money then is needed. If you can get away with only spending $400 to get your braking where you want it then you can spend that $800 on other mods like suspension. I don't see rear coil overs on your list oke:.

Yes, I'm likely feeling sponginess in the pedal more than fade. Also, my front rotors have about 100k on them, so they are pretty glazed. I read the Motorcraft DOT3 has 500 degree boiling point, so I was thinking that or ATE DOT4, but will check out Valvoline as well to see what has the best temp/$ value.

I have considered the Cobra Rears, I have plenty of pad left and Brembo slotted rear rotors are in good shape, so I'm trying to put that off for a while and do new rear axles at the same time (which may help reduce the howling sound I'm hearing now @ 126k miles). I found the bracket / rotor kit here for $205 - http://fordracingparts123.com/chass...omponents/gt-rear-brake-bracket-kit-m-2300-m/

A sale certainly would help me put up the $ for the Baers.. I've probably got a few months before I need to replace the front hardware so I'll wait and see.

Thanks for noticing I don't have rear coil overs . The H&R Super Race rear springs were the stiffest conventional springs I could find at the time (and what I could afford as a college student 7 years ago) to compliment the front MM C/O kit, and it actually works quite well together, so I'm trying to put off the rear MM C/O kit until I improve my driving skill level to the point that I feel I really need it, but oh does it look beautiful ;-)

 

[JDUB348]

Brembos here and they grab hard!

 

[03 Indy Cobra]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Full Tilt Boogie Brembo 14" conversion kit.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...embo-brake-conversion-kits-now-available.html


FT 9490

 

[Wade_GT]

After the discussion here, I'm leaning toward keeping the Cobra PBRs and ordering the following to assess if it's a big enough improvement:

- DRT Slotted Rotors which are basically Centric Premium's with slots ($163.80)
- Technafit SS Front Lines ($59.99)
- Porterfield R4 S Front Pads ($108)
- ATE TYP 200 Fluid ($34 for 2 Liters)

Total = $365.79

By the way, will 1 Liter of fluid be enough, or do I need 2L to be safe?

 

[SVT_Troy]

1 liter should be more than enough unless you start wasting fluid.....

 

[Wade_GT]

1 liter should be more than enough unless you start wasting fluid.....

Perfect. Thanks.

 

[Midnight_Cobra]

I would get 2L, you are not adding more of the same fluid. You are completely replacing the fluid. So when you bleed out the old fluid, you add new fluid until no old fluid comes out. If you order 1 and need more you have to wait till you get more. If you order 2, you have enough, and some left over to refill over time.

^ That might be hard to read, I'm tired as hell :beer:

 

[itSSlow98]

Not a fan of Baer I would definetly put them last on the list. Brembo, Wilwood and then baer.

 

[Wade_GT]

Not a fan of Baer I would definetly put them last on the list. Brembo, Wilwood and then baer.

Do you have experience with Baer that makes you say this?

I would get 2L, you are not adding more of the same fluid. You are completely replacing the fluid. So when you bleed out the old fluid, you add new fluid until no old fluid comes out. If you order 1 and need more you have to wait till you get more. If you order 2, you have enough, and some left over to refill over time.

^ That might be hard to read, I'm tired as hell :beer:

Good point.. might as well have some extra.

By the way, I discovered DRT slots extend all the way off the rotor which I hear is not ideal, so I took a look at TPS Motorsports slots and prefer those (see them here)..

TPS Slotted Rotors (slots stop before the edge):

So below is the latest plan:

- TPS Slotted Rotors (Start as Centric Premiums) ($139.99)
- Technafit SS Front Lines ($59.99)
- Porterfield R4 S Front Pads ($108)
- ATE TYP 200 Fluid ($34 for 2 Liters)

Total = $341.98

 

[starnsey]

Not a fan of Baer I would definetly put them last on the list. Brembo, Wilwood and then baer.

Reasons why?

 

[Wade_GT]

Below are the products I picked up and where I purchased. I'll provide an update once I bed the pads and go on a hill climb :

Stoptech 13" Slotted Front Rotors - http://www.mrgraceco.com/ - Great prices from cool guys!
Porterfield R4-S Front Pads for Cobra Calipers - TopBrakes.com
Technafit stainless lines - TopBrakes.com
ATE Typ 200 Fluid - TopBrakes.com

Also pictured are some other maintenance items I'm doing as I'm closing in on 130,000 (fuel filter, NGK V Power spark plugs, NGK coil boots, Mobil 1 ATF).