e85 hp limit with stock feed line/rails

[ctgreddy]

Just curious on this, with my next blower setup that I'll be installing shortly I'm gonna make the move to return style/e85. I'm going to aim for around 700whp and am curious if the lethal budget return with 465 pumps will be enough, or if the stock feed line and/or rails wont support that? Anyone out there currently making some good power with e85 on the stock stuff?

Also, I tried a quick search and didn't find what I wanted to know pertaining to e85, if someone knows of some old threads by all means link me to them and I'll accept being a dumb ass.

 

[cj428mach]

Just curious on this, with my next blower setup that I'll be installing shortly I'm gonna make the move to return style/e85. I'm going to aim for around 700whp and am curious if the lethal budget return with 465 pumps will be enough, or if the stock feed line and/or rails wont support that? Anyone out there currently making some good power with e85 on the stock stuff?

Also, I tried a quick search and didn't find what I wanted to know pertaining to e85, if someone knows of some old threads by all means link me to them and I'll accept being a dumb ass.

I did a search on this as well and I couldn't find anyone using the stock feedline for e85 with a twin screw. I couldn't even really find anyone using the stock feed as a return line as I think it would work fine but everyone thought I was crazy for even suggesting it.

 

[SNK-BITE]

Im on stock lines and rails but my dyno numbers are not reliable.

 

[ctgreddy]

Im on stock lines and rails but my dyno numbers are not reliable.

what's your setup and fuel?

 

[ctgreddy]

I did a search on this as well and I couldn't find anyone using the stock feedline for e85 with a twin screw. I couldn't even really find anyone using the stock feed as a return line as I think it would work fine but everyone thought I was crazy for even suggesting it.

I've always wondered the same thing actually. But I'm not sure if there's line adapters for both the fuel rail inlet and the stock line.

 

[SNK-BITE]

what's your setup and fuel?

TVS 3.0/4# 22# boost 22* timing E85. Stock lines, rails, filter. Fore hat (returnless) GT improved pumps, 80# injectors, 40A KB BAP, modified single fpdm. Wiring upgrade from fuse box to pumps, dragon tb, jlt cai, stock maf w/ mafia, longtubes. My dyno numbers are not even close to accurate as I was have a ton of traction issues on the rollers that ended up causing my tune to be way.. way lean on the street. Everyone running my combo is well above 700/700 at the tire and my 6.6X shakedown pass, full weight and losing the clutch in 3rd gear supports those numbers. I have very little wiggle room left in my FPDC. I plan on upgrading the feed line to drop the duty cycle before the cool air moves in this year.

 

[svtshadow]

Which parts of the stock fuel system is not compatible with E85?

 

[ctgreddy]

Which parts of the stock fuel system is not compatible with E85?

People have used the complete stock system with it safely. The only thing I can think of that might not be technically compatable would be the fuel pumps.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Why do you not want to upgrade the feed line and rails? Is it just a cost thing?

First off, I never skimp on fuel. Motors don't like it and tuners don't either. Stock rails have supported 800hp and more with regular fuels. The problem with e85 is the volume demand needed to start supporting that power. I agree, not many people have tried pushing the envelope with the stock stuff, e85 and that power level. That is why there isn't much available when you search. And frankly, they are smart not to push it. Nobody wants to blow up a motor and especially not because of a limited fuel system.

I usually use a guideline of 500, 600 and 700 hp.

500hp, most setups are eaton with typical mods. Very few running e85(I haven't had one person yet run e85 with an eaton, but I know people do). So your KB bap with injectors is sufficient. And that will get you to the 600hp mark. Yes I know plenty run that setup with 620-640 or so, but again, we are pushing the limits of that system when getting up there in power. It isn't worth it imo. So at that 600hp level, going TS/TVS is when I recommend at least the level 1/budget kits. However, most people skip that hp range and are shooting for the 650-700+ now and running e85 or a higher octane fuel. And so I recommend at least the level 2.

Also consider, using the stock line as your feed line, with it maintaining the pressures needed, it contributes to heating up the fuel. We all know that is not good.

In regards to converting the stock line into a return line, it might be possible, but I haven't checked into it. Fore has this fitting

http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/33-001.htm

That will convert the end in the engine bay to a -8an so you can connect a return line to it. Then you have to deal with your stock filter location. You could remove the filter and use FI hose with clamps to connect them, or you may be able to flip the filter the opposite direction and actually filter your return fuel as well. However, I haven't looked into what kind of restriction that might cause. Lastly, you have the connection at the hat. Depending on the port size on your hat, you could use this fitting on the return port. Again, need to know if the port size matches.

http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/33-003.htm

It is the same fitting used in the Level 1/budget kit. Fore has 2 different lengths and they have one with a -8an end as well.

 

[SNK-BITE]

Why do you not want to upgrade the feed line and rails? Is it just a cost thing?

First off, I never skimp on fuel. Motors don't like it and tuners don't either. Stock rails have supported 800hp and more with regular fuels. The problem with e85 is the volume demand needed to start supporting that power. I agree, not many people have tried pushing the envelope with the stock stuff, e85 and that power level. That is why there isn't much available when you search. And frankly, they are smart not to push it. Nobody wants to blow up a motor and especially not because of a limited fuel system.

I usually use a guideline of 500, 600 and 700 hp.

500hp, most setups are eaton with typical mods. Very few running e85(I haven't had one person yet run e85 with an eaton, but I know people do). So your KB bap with injectors is sufficient. And that will get you to the 600hp mark. Yes I know plenty run that setup with 620-640 or so, but again, we are pushing the limits of that system when getting up there in power. It isn't worth it imo. So at that 600hp level, going TS/TVS is when I recommend at least the level 1/budget kits. However, most people skip that hp range and are shooting for the 650-700+ now and running e85 or a higher octane fuel. And so I recommend at least the level 2.

Also consider, using the stock line as your feed line, with it maintaining the pressures needed, it contributes to heating up the fuel. We all know that is not good.

In regards to converting the stock line into a return line, it might be possible, but I haven't checked into it. Fore has this fitting

http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/33-001.htm

That will convert the end in the engine bay to a -8an so you can connect a return line to it. Then you have to deal with your stock filter location. You could remove the filter and use FI hose with clamps to connect them, or you may be able to flip the filter the opposite direction and actually filter your return fuel as well. However, I haven't looked into what kind of restriction that might cause. Lastly, you have the connection at the hat. Depending on the port size on your hat, you could use this fitting on the return port. Again, need to know if the port size matches.

http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/33-003.htm

It is the same fitting used in the Level 1/budget kit. Fore has 2 different lengths and they have one with a -8an end as well.

Even though i didnt do it i agree with this. I was just semi curious if it was possible to make 700 on e85 with OEM stuff. You can but there is no head room. Thats why i went with the fore hat so switching over to return would just intel running fuel line and a regulator when the time comes. I will say I was worried about the drivability with a returnless setup pushed as hard as mine but the drivabilty is very good. Big thanks to my tuner Eric Brooks for working his magic.

 

[TRBO VNM]

And trust me, my recommendations have nothing to do with $$ on my end. Customers can vouge for that. My recommendations are strictly for safety of the setup and having the extra overhead for the setup and potential future upgrades.

 

[Shadow Grey 03]

I just ordered my full return setup and WOULD NOT use the stock feed line personally. Do it once and do it right I didn't want to risk not having enough fuel while getting tuned and having to get more parts and do a second tuning session.

 

[ctgreddy]

The main thing I'd like to do is just keep the factory rails. I'm gonna be aiming for around 700ish whp on e85 and all the research I've found is stock rails will handle that, has anyone actually pushed them to the actual limit? I have no problem upgrading the feed line if need be, but for all I knew it was more than enough so would be a waste of money.

 

[svtshadow]

And trust me, my recommendations have nothing to do with $$ on my end. Customers can vouge for that. My recommendations are strictly for safety of the setup and having the extra overhead for the setup and potential future upgrades.

So E85 will not eat the stock components etc? If I am remembering right, a couple of years ago people were saying to have to use lines that are E85 friendly, and that stock lines were not compatible.

 

[ctgreddy]

So E85 will not eat the stock components etc? If I am remembering right, a couple of years ago people were saying to have to use lines that are E85 friendly, and that stock lines were not compatible.

the main feed line is metal so it's not gonne eat away that. Only thing I'd really be worried about with stock stuff is the fuel filter.

 

[Shadow Grey 03]

the main feed line is metal so it's not gonne eat away that. Only thing I'd really be worried about with stock stuff is the fuel filter.

I switched out to a stainless mesh filter with adapters for my ported eaton e-85 setup. Ran it for two seasons with zero issues. Stock feed line for awhile too. I never used any dry gas or other additives either.

 

[VenomSVT03]

I'm not sure how much the stock lines can support, but the stock rails will support plenty for most of the builds here. I made 770/730 with the stock rails before i swapped them out and they never became a restriction

 

[cj428mach]

If money is tight, I'd skip the rails. I did them and although I don't regret it they do make working around the Whipple even tighter than it was before but I wanted my car to have the best of the best. If I was doing a budget build I'd go return with stock rails, bigger feed line, and a hat with e85 compatible pumps and call it a day.

 

[mustang john]

I did Lethals budget kit and upgraged the feed line to 8an and I got the 465 pumps when I went E85 and TVS. Everything I have read in my research has lead me to believe that the stock fuel rails will flow plenty even on E85 up to around 750rwhp or better. No way I would have trusted the stock feed line, its smaller than 6an if I remember right.

It made 615rwhp on 18# on a MD with plenty of head room. I have since upped the boost a bit to 20# and installed a better flowing intake and added the ID1000s (previous #s were on 80s), no numbers on it yet but soon hopefully.

 

[svtshadow]

You guys are giving me big hopes right now.

I have a 1000hp Glenns perfomance return system with
a sump tank
60# injectors
ported blower pushing 490rwhp eaton power
Dual 6an from each pump to each rail
8an return line


can I run E85 with that system? Called Glenn performance but were all busy lines.