Engine part specials @ Livernois Motorsports

Andy@Livernois · Sep 21, 2007

We are having a sale on the following engine related items @ Livernois Motorsports, Call me @ 313-561-5500 ex. 1301 or PM me to get a quote for what you are looking for.

$50 off any shortblock, PLUS free crating (over a $100 Value) and a Free T-shirt, OR Hat

$50 off any rotating assembly

$50 off any set of heads

$125 off any shortblock/head combo or rotating assembly/head combo

Add other items (such as cometic gaskets, arp head studs etc for even better deals)

Once again, please PM me, or Call 313-561-5500 ex. 1301 for your quote

This sale is valid until Oct. 31 2007

Andy@Livernois · Sep 21, 2007

Here are some highlights on our shortblocks:

Well If you would like a quote from us for a shortblock that can handle 1000hp without batting an eye, drop me a line I could probably do something to help a board member out on a shortblock, plus we stock 95% of our shortblock line unlike most other places.

Just some of the standard features of our shortblock:

Manley rods w/ ARP 2000 bolts

USA Forged Crankshafts

Mahle Pistons (most of which are an exclusive design made for us) rated to 20psi

Coated Rod and Main Bearings

ARP Main Studs

Tolerances within +/- .0001

Each process is triple checked before the next process is begun

All assemblies are digitally balanced in house

All machine work done in house

We are (to my knowledge) still the only ones in the industry that have invested money in tools that measure the crosshatch pattern of the cylinder wall for optimal power, reliability, and ring seal

We originally developed the manley H-beam rod for strokers that most of the industry uses now

All block machining done with deck plates

Random quality control teardowns assure consistancy on all of our engines

and the most important feature is we shelf stock a large majority of our engines, so you just have to wait for delivery, not build time

313-561-5500
Andy ext. 1301

Andy@Livernois · Sep 21, 2007

Here is some info on why our shortblocks and rotating assemblies are so conservatively rated:

na svt said:
Pistons rated for only 20psi and yet you say the shortblock can handle 1000hp...hmmmm.

Your concern is noted. Our shortblocks specs are rated extremely conservatively. We have run above 30lbs. on our standard shortblocks with aboslutely no issues. The main reason we rate them to 20lbs is the chance for detonation rises exponentially the more boost you run. A detonation issue on a 20lb setup is less catstrophic then 25 or 30lbs. Also we know that people make mistakes. When a car is done in house we have total control of the tune, and the recommendation on fuel. When we are selling a shortblock for another shop/person to install and tune themselves we lose that ability.

For a note, we have numerous cars that have ran 27+ lbs on this piston, and have logged 10's of thousands of miles on them. There always has to be a margin of safety listed. We know very well that when you rate something to 20 almost no one pays attention to that and runs 23+ lbs. through it anyways.

Also, we do offer a pro series piston for those that want a little extra ability (once again made exlusively for us by mahle) that is "rated" for 30+ lbs, we have a few people running 38 lbs with it.

The most recent car to bring up was our black 2005 mustang for an example. This car had our standard off the shelf shortblock in it. We ran 28lbs of boost through it (on the 20lb rated piston) and sold the car with over 10k miles on it. The new Florida resident owner of the car bought it for his teenage son (the perfect type of driver to test true durability) It was sold quite a few months ago, and the Gentleman that bought it from us keeps us informed on the car. It's still going strong.

Please do not hesitate to question anything you see, we are more then happy to answer any/all questions you might have.

Andy@Livernois · Sep 21, 2007

And here is some in depth info on why we use Mahle over others, specifically why our standard piston is a 4032 alloy.

droptopsnake01 said:
Cool, question though, why mahle over cp or any other piston at that. Im just wondering what "bought" you and the guys there on that piston? Any particular reason etc?

modman2 said:
Good question, I am glad you asked. I can probably assist Andy in answering this one. I am in charge of engine development at Livernois and helped make the decisions when we chose to go with Mahle as our piston supplier. So here are a couple of the key reasons why we did choose Mahle.

The first and one of the biggest reasons we chose Mahle was there background in OEM development as well as specifically modular ford piston development from working with ford. With Mahle being the largest producer of pistons for OEM companies worldwide they really were able to offer something more than any of the other piston companies could. No other piston company had anywhere near as much data or work into these pistons, this especially held true on the OEM level high performance pistons. This was perfect for us since we were looking for OEM reliability but unmatched performance at the same time.

The second big reason we chose Mahle was there racing development background. Mahle is basically the leader when it comes to pistons and development for F1, IRL, NASCAR, Rally, and Lemans. This is a huge advantage for them when it comes to developing pistons for other high performance applications being that they have a vast pool of data and knowledge to choose from and use towards new pistons.

So those first to reasons where probably the most paramount when it came to choosing Mahle over the other piston companies. Just as an example we incorporated many designs and features into our pistons that were used from both Mahles OEM development and racing development and incorporated those characteristics into our pistons. Specifically there were a number of ringland and ring groove modifications that came out of F1 development and there were numerous piston skirt profile as well as dish configurations that were incorporated out of there OEM testing from some of Fords newer high performance factory cars. These couple of things that were used on our pistons have shown consistent gains in power and from our testing pretty significant gains in durability.

Another key reason that we went with Mahle was there understanding and extensive experience with using 4032 alloy in boosted applications. When Livernois engine originally set out to come up with a more durable and better designed package for modular engines one of the key concerns was piston noise from forged pistons. The inherent design of the ford modular engine in relation to the stroke and deck height allow the piston skirt to come out of the bore. The stock piston runs a very minimal piston to wall clearance and noise is not really an issue, but when switching to a forged piston that requires increased piston to wall clearance it does start to create a noise issue in certain circumstances. This noise is acceptable to some people in the performance aftermarket but to others it is not. So keeping that in mind we wanted to try and make the piston design work so that noise would be kept to a minimum while stay maintaining ultimate overall performance. So to do this we needed to use 4032 as opposed to 2618 material due to the different coefficient of expansion. Knowing that we could run tighter piston to wall clearance with 4032 was a key point in the development of the pistons. Going with Mahle was a clear choice at that point since there understanding and development work with 4032 was unmatched. They had been working heavily with the material in many OEM turbocharged small engines as well as in the racing development arena with similar durability and endurance applications. They had already done a lot of the development and knew what to do to make the pistons live through basically any kind of treatment.

There were other advantages as well though that came with the switch to 4032 besides the noise factor. Through our own development process in conjunction with Mahles previous development we were able to find power advantages in ringland and skirt profile changes that allowed 4032 pistons to make more power than similar 2618 pistons. These changes allowed for better piston ring sealing and reduced blowby. We were also able to come up with durability advantages with the 4032 vs. 2618 pistons. These advantages showed up in our durability testing of boosted engines that see a lot of heat cycling and street time. The 4032 pistons held there overall shape better than the 2618 pistons did after many hundreds of hours of testing and this helped to produced more power.

After all of this testing we found that 4032 pistons worked better for average and middle boost levels and even at high boost levels as long as detonation was controlled. We do produce 2618 versions that are more of an extreme duty part though. These are built to withstand that occasional detonation that is sometimes common in higher boosted engines (20+ lbs). Through all of our testing we were able to determine that it was around that boost level that no matter how good the tune-up was there was always a chance based on many factors; that you could encounter detonation even in small amounts and this would be hazardous of course to the pistons. So that is why we offer our standard piston in 4032 which we feel works better in these street/strip boosted applications up to around 20-22lbs. After that we offer the more extreme part for boost ranges above and beyond 20+ lbs.

But to stay on topic with why we chose Mahle as our piston provider it was simple for us. They are the leader in both OEM and Racing pistons. Out of all the American aftermarket piston companies out there only Mahle has there own forgings made in Germany by Mahle themselves. Basically ever other company buys the exact same forgings from the same guy. This allowed us to have them make a forging specifically for our pistons. No other piston manufacturer could offer that to us. That is just one reason out of many why we chose them.

Just to be fair the other piston companies out there, they by no means are bad companies or don't know what they are doing. They all produce nice pistons that will work fine in most applications. We have bought and used pistons for other for many other applications from JE, Diamond, CP, Manley, and have always had pretty good luck. But when we went to design pistons for our 4.6 ford engine packages we wanted nothing less than the best and for this the choice to use Mahle was simple.

If anybody is interested in more of the in-depth piston design stuff or anything else for that matter feel free to give me a call or email and I would be glad to talk further. As you can see by the length of the post there is a ton of info and a lot more behind the scenes stuff that goes into this, and I always love to talk engine stuff.

Thanks

Mike Schropp
Livernois Engine Development

Andy@Livernois · Sep 21, 2007

Finally, please click here for a recent Power TV shoot detailing a Livernois Motorsports Modular Engine Build. It explains the components used along with machining involved in our modular engine builds.

Andy@Livernois · Sep 24, 2007