Fun debate at work about number of power adders...

[ViperBlueCobra]

So this guy at my work has a twin turbo 300zx. Upgraded motor, turbos, blah blah blah and put down 506 rwhp. Not bad at all.

He loves going around saying.. yeah japan people only need 6 cylinders to get it done. blah blah blah.. so I was messing with him.. that it doesn't count because he has two power adders.

So..but it did get me thinkings... about power adders and how people word this.

According to his logic..if it's the same type of power adder, it's not multiple power adders. If you combine different types of power adders, you then have multiple power adders.

So my agrument is that so.. if I have 2 stage of nitrious with two bottles..that is only one power adder? But if I have a supercharger with one nitrous kit that is two power adders. So we go on and on.. and really I couldn't find a firm solution..but I like messing with him.

What are your thoughts on the power adder discussion?

Single turbo kit - 1 power adder
Twin turbo kit - 1 or 2 power adders??
Single supercharger - 1 power adder
Twin supercharger - 1 or 2 power adders?
Nitrous - 1 power adder
2 stage nitrous - 1 or 2 power adders?

:beer::rockon:

Remember guys..nothing serious just having some fun car talk.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

whenever I hear multiple power adders I immediately think of it having at least 2 different kinds of power adder ie blower and nitrous etc...Never really heard of having multiple blowers/turbos etc as multiple power adders, usually just twin turbo, twin superchargers or compound boost

2 stages of nitrous is just one thing to me...you could run a 500 shot or 250 on two different stages, same thing to me just easier to control in stages.

 

[9BABCobra8]

There could be a big play on words here...
It depends on how you two define power adders.
Most people would agree with superchargers, turbos, and nitrous.
Does it stop there or do you take the literal sense of anything that adds power?
Lol that could get ugly.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

doesn't the buggati have like 4 turbo chargers?

 

[trc46]

Twin=1 unit
Whether it's twin super or turbochargers doesn't really matter. Boost is boost. If your putting out 10lbs of boost does it really matter if it's a big single or twin littles?

 

[95PGTTech]

It really depends on the context. In many NHRA classes:

1 turbo = 1 power adder
2 turbo = 2 power adder
1 turbo + air/air or air/water = 2 power adder
1 turbo + meth = 2 power adder

so depending on how he has his 300zx set up, if it is using stock location side mount intercoolers it is 4 power adder in the right context.

 

[9BABCobra8]

Twin=1 unit
Whether it's twin super or turbochargers doesn't really matter. Boost is boost. If your putting out 10lbs of boost does it really matter if it's a big single or twin littles?

I agree with you on the twins being one adder but I do not agree that boost is boost. I guess if you are comparing the exact same motor it would be the same.

 

[brandonflood123]

run what ya brung and sombody can cry about the loss later lol:beer:

 

[ElscottHavoc]

Don't care as long as it looks good and goes fast.

But seriously, now that I think about it, I just go by grouping them by type. If you 1 or more turbos, regardless the sizes, that's one power adder. Same for superchargers and nitrous. I think with nitrous you have to just consider the total shot. But if you have compound boost, couple turbos plus a blower I call that 2 power adders. Add nitrous on top and you have 3 power adders. As far as other things, like exhaust or CAI, regardless of how much power they add, I just call them bolt ons.

So to sum up, by my opinion, if you have a Cobra with forged internals and aggressive heads, compound boost, nitrous and bunch of goodies - I'd say you have a built Cobra, 3 power adders, some bolt ons, and shit stained boxers.

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[Kiohtee]

I've always considered twins and multiple stages of nitrous as one power adder. If it's the same type of forced induction then it's one IMO.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Twin=1 unit
Whether it's twin super or turbochargers doesn't really matter. Boost is boost. If your putting out 10lbs of boost does it really matter if it's a big single or twin littles?

what if I have a turbo and a supercharger combined putting out 10psi.. one or two power adders?

 

[openaccount]

Twin=1 unit
Whether it's twin super or turbochargers doesn't really matter. Boost is boost. If your putting out 10lbs of boost does it really matter if it's a big single or twin littles?

It absolutley matters. PSI does not equal power, air flow does. A bigger Turbo at lower psi will make more power than a little one past its efficency range.

Smaller turbos give you more instantaneous response at the cost of top end, and big turbos give you top end at the cost of spool up.

Running a small and large turbo techincally "should" be considered 2 power adders. However running two identical turbos would only be one.

 

[Camaro_94]

I would count each different kind of power adder as a different one.

Turbo plus nitrous = 2
2 stages of nitrous = 1
Supercharger plus nitrous = 2
Twin turbo = 1

 

[Sick03Vert]

I would count each different kind of power adder as a different one.

Turbo plus nitrous = 2
2 stages of nitrous = 1
Supercharger plus nitrous = 2
Twin turbo = 1

^ What he said.

 

[ElscottHavoc]

I don't think there is any scientific answer. To make a statement about the number of power adders is nothing more than to say that [insert model car here] isn't your Grandmas car...

If I say, my Cobra has a power adder and bolt one, that says nothing other than its not a stock Cobra and if someone says they have a few bolt ons and 2 power adders, I can assume its probably crazier than mine (maybe).

The fact of the matter is, all else considered equal, a turbo car, twin turbo car, twin turbo car with different sized turbos, compound boost, nitrous, positive displacement blowers, centric blowers, and any other combination you can think of are all going to be different experiences.

To say a car has x number of power adders is nothing more than putting it on a very vague and many times inaccurate scale of performance.

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[thomas91169]

Power adders are not a sum of their parts but what they are doing.

Two turbos is still one power adder (boost)
Two stage nitrous is still one power adder (nitrous)

If you have a twin turbo setup with nitrous on top, thats two power adders, one power adder being boost, the other being a chemical reaction.

Even a compound setup imo is one power adder, its still adding boost.

 

[UncleDan]

He loves going around saying.. yeah japan people only need 6 cylinders to get it done.

Yeah and about 20+ pounds of boost on top of it.

 

[thomas91169]

Yeah and about 20+ pounds of boost on top of it.

OOH SLAM

not really though.

psi comparisons to output mean jack shit because there are too many variables involved.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Power adders are not a sum of their parts but what they are doing.

Two turbos is still one power adder (boost)
Two stage nitrous is still one power adder (nitrous)

If you have a twin turbo setup with nitrous on top, thats two power adders, one power adder being boost, the other being a chemical reaction.

Even a compound setup imo is one power adder, its still adding boost.

Well..

Look at this... if I have twin turbos.. and that is 1 power adder.. right.. then I take away one turbo.. and I still only have 1 power adder? Either way, even if it's the same type of power adder, it's multiple units. Because by themselves they are a power adder. When you put more then one together, that is multiple power adders. Right?

 

[Torch10th]

I would consider a twin turbo setup like on that of a 300zx a single power adder. It's not a compound system so there's really no "doubling" per say. The 300zx at least from the factory uses two different sized turbos. One that spools more quickly, while the other that provides breathing at higher rpm and power levels.

The super and RX-7 use a sequential style setup that does much the same. The 3000GT V4 just has small turbos.

Now, if this were a compound turbocharger setup where the cold side outlet of one turbo feeds the cold side of the next, I think you could argue that it has dual power adders. After all this is now compound compression of the air charge.