GT 500 Details

DBK

Re-retired
Established Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Messages
6,049
Location
north of 200mph
Sadly, after all that effort and hard work, some twatwaffle at Ford couldn't ensure that they spelled Tremec's name right. From the transmission stand at the show...

This goes back to what I was saying bout the 650 hp thing. Sadly, it's almost never someone attempting to be clever, just routine carelessness. Really makes me want to blow my brains out.
 

tt335ci03cobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
6,967
Location
USA
I am no expert but I found one of the quarter mile time calculator things and plugged in a weight of 4200 lbs to play around with possible horsepower levels. According to the calculator I used, a 4200 lb car making 755 crank HP turns something close to a 10.83 in the 1/4 mile. Not pure science but something to think about,

With the downforce on the carbon car, I assume 3-4mph is being weighed out. I think at 135mph, it’s probably generating 250-300lbs of downforce.

If the carbon car weighs 3950lbs, but that spoiler adds down force which makes it “heavy” you’ll get those numbers you describe.

I have a gut hunch the base car is +/- 4069lbs, and the carbon car is +/- 3975. It’s a gut bunch, but I think they went non painted wheel (exposed carbon) to get the “magic” identical wheel weight of the painted 19” gt350r carbon wheel.

The carbon getting only 2 seats shaves 30lbs, the wheels another 40lbs vs the 20” aluminum wheels, and I’d guess the carbon wing is roughly the same weight as the base cars traditional material spoiler.

Here’s where I think the 4069lbs comes in from a gt350@3800lbs.
•dct + 120lbs
•blower with coolers + 90lbs
•16” brakes + 10lbs (1” bigger)
•20” wheels +10lbs (1” bigger)
•oil/trans/diff/lines coolers +60lbs
•hubs/knuckles + 15lbs
•bigger exhaust but no balancers 0lbs
•new front clip -15lbs
•no clutch pedal or handbrake or shift lever -15lbs
•carbon driveshaft -5lbs

+/- 270lbs.

If the dct is obnoxiously heavy, then a base car could be 4100. I’m assuming it weighs about 282lbs without the driveshaft, not unlike a Ford gt 7dcl750. Keep in mind a gt350 has an aluminum driveshaft. I understand the 7dcl750 is a transaxle.

•7Dcl750 (Ford gt): 120kg is 282lbs... but, that’s with fluid and clutches. The t3160 140lbs is dry without a clutch pedal so about 160lbs. 120lbs difference.


Now I’m sure small differences like thicker sway bar or beefier control arm mounts or bracing exist, but I’m also sure I’m forgetting some weight savings where ford likely pulled a card from the GT program and carefuly whittled put some unneeded material from cross braces under the car (cut out small geometric shapes from a wide band of material etc).

@Tob what are your thoughts on weight? You have a better and more mind and the hands on experience for these sorts of calculations.
 

blk02edge

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,895
Location
BC
With the downforce on the carbon car, I assume 3-4mph is being weighed out. I think at 135mph, it’s probably generating 250-300lbs of downforce.

If the carbon car weighs 3950lbs, but that spoiler adds down force which makes it “heavy” you’ll get those numbers you describe.

I have a gut hunch the base car is +/- 4069lbs, and the carbon car is +/- 3975. It’s a gut bunch, but I think they went non painted wheel (exposed carbon) to get the “magic” identical wheel weight of the painted 19” gt350r carbon wheel.

The carbon getting only 2 seats shaves 30lbs, the wheels another 40lbs vs the 20” aluminum wheels, and I’d guess the carbon wing is roughly the same weight as the base cars traditional material spoiler.

Here’s where I think the 4069lbs comes in from a gt350@3800lbs.
•dct + 120lbs
•blower with coolers + 90lbs
•16” brakes + 10lbs (1” bigger)
•20” wheels +10lbs (1” bigger)
•oil/trans/diff/lines coolers +60lbs
•hubs/knuckles + 15lbs
•bigger exhaust but no balancers 0lbs
•new front clip -15lbs
•no clutch pedal or handbrake or shift lever -15lbs
•carbon driveshaft -5lbs

+/- 270lbs.

If the dct is obnoxiously heavy, then a base car could be 4100. I’m assuming it weighs about 282lbs without the driveshaft, not unlike a Ford gt 7dcl750. Keep in mind a gt350 has an aluminum driveshaft. I understand the 7dcl750 is a transaxle.

•7Dcl750 (Ford gt): 120kg is 282lbs... but, that’s with fluid and clutches. The t3160 140lbs is dry without a clutch pedal so about 160lbs. 120lbs difference.


Now I’m sure small differences like thicker sway bar or beefier control arm mounts or bracing exist, but I’m also sure I’m forgetting some weight savings where ford likely pulled a card from the GT program and carefuly whittled put some unneeded material from cross braces under the car (cut out small geometric shapes from a wide band of material etc).

@Tob what are your thoughts on weight? You have a better and more mind and the hands on experience for these sorts of calculations.
I think the bigger wheel is a lighter package. Carbon fiber vs rubber but probably negligable
 

conceptmachine

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
776
Location
Iowa
any chance this car runs over 12 PSI with the 2650 or a tighter than 10:1 compression ratio?
just trying to imagine how this car makes more HP than a ZR1 with the same supercharger running 14psi? and a 6.2L. even if the gt500 doesn't beat it in a line, if the 5.2 puts out more horses than the 6.2, ford gets a shiny gold star in my book.
Now I realize they are different types of engines, but still, 1L larger!
 

tt335ci03cobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
6,967
Location
USA
any chance this car runs over 12 PSI with the 2650 or a tighter than 10:1 compression ratio?
just trying to imagine how this car makes more HP than a ZR1 with the same supercharger running 14psi? and a 6.2L. even if the gt500 doesn't beat it in a line, if the 5.2 puts out more horses than the 6.2, ford gets a shiny gold star in my book.
Now I realize they are different types of engines, but still, 1L larger!

In two words, volumetric efficiency.

In a long ramble: Volumetric efficiency because more of the fuel is converted into motivation within the fords 5.2L than within the chevy’s 6.2L because of the closer accuracy of the 4 valve’s delivery of air and fuel as well as exhaust and compression (holding) vs the chevys 2v ibc design.

I should just look it up but because the Chevy ohv mill is 19% larger net or 16.5% larger gross, and I’m assuming the intake manifold design corresponds to that (no clue or desire to look up the actual volumetric capacity of the manifold since it’s SC and that opens an entire can of theoretical anomaly distortion worms from hot point turbulence to air density at testing, etc etc) and runs 15% more atmosphere compensation (2psi) than the Ford to create 755hp from 6.2+2.65L (8.85L) it likely has about 75-85% VE considering it is using about 25-33% more fuel than the gt500 (guessing based on similar modular packages ie sc coyote’s) to achieve that power point. I’m guessing the gt500 will be shy of the 115% (roughly) that the 460hp coyote mill has, but north of 100%. This difference of ~20% VE is why the gt500 mill can better utilize the air provided by 5.2L, and a 2.65L blower.

The LT5 is cammed for a very robust 3500-7000rpm. I’d guess gt500 is cammed for a very nice 3000-7500rpm from what I see so far. Dohc is easier to cover a wider power band with because it is more accurate at moving and delivering air and fuel.

I think gt500 will be about 750hp@7000 and 650tq@4500rpm (guesstimating) compared to 755hp@6400/715tq@4400 zr1.

What I’m going to be surprised to see is if the torque is above 650lb/ft. On my 5.3L modular with stage 3 ported gt500 heads and 9.3:1 compression, 15psi is about 980whp and 860wtq (120 gap) with twin 62’s. On 10psi, it’s a 815whp and 710wtq (105 gap).

I think ford will have done very very well if they can shrink the gap between hp and tq to under 100 for such a safe but high level factory effort running over 12psi. As boost goes up, torque doesn’t keep up wit hp in high rpm engines. On 30psi for example, I make 1200whp and only 970wtq for a difference of 230.

Also, keep in mind Ford will offer something like 5yr warranty on this engine. I’m replacing head gaskets and timing components every 10k miles on my 5.3 and zr1’s are catching fire/blowing up at a higher than expected rate. I think ford has some new tech in the head sealing on this gt500 that will come to be appreciated.
 
Last edited:

railroad

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Messages
2,118
Location
warrior, al
I guess the 7th gear, 55 mph at 2600 rpm is just for display. Can that be right?
 
Last edited:

tt335ci03cobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
6,967
Location
USA
I think the bigger wheel is a lighter package. Carbon fiber vs rubber but probably negligable

Would make sense. Same weight wheel 19vs20 since the 19’s are painted, but the tire is 1/2” thinner sidewall assuming they are the same height as the gt350r’s.
 

tt335ci03cobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
6,967
Location
USA
I guess the 7th gear, 55 mph at 2600 rpm is just for display. Can that be right?

It’s hints at (imo) hp, and 2.6L sc.

I’d hope the vehicle is geared to be around 1600rpm in 7th@55. Maybe 2250@75mph

It’ll depend if 4th or 5th is 1:1. Now if 6th is 1:1, then 7th being .85 would be about 3500@70 which is too high imo.

1:1 4th would be 3 overdrives which I don’t expect. I think it’ll be something like

1st 3.15
2nd 2.5
3rd 1.8
4th 1.3
5th 1.0
6th .8
7th .65

I’ve been plotting plotting option strategies this morning... I think I need to put the math and markets down and go get laid. Way to many numbers in my head. The guy that went mega aggressive on option futures yesterday ($500,000,000 position) is probably on to something, or trying to bust the market up nasty/false confidence... can’t tell
 
Last edited:

Voltwings

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
2,739
Location
Houston
any chance this car runs over 12 PSI with the 2650 or a tighter than 10:1 compression ratio?
just trying to imagine how this car makes more HP than a ZR1 with the same supercharger running 14psi? and a 6.2L. even if the gt500 doesn't beat it in a line, if the 5.2 puts out more horses than the 6.2, ford gets a shiny gold star in my book.
Now I realize they are different types of engines, but still, 1L larger!

RPM. It looks like the GT500 will rev close to 1000 rpms higher. That's worth more than 1 liter.
 

conceptmachine

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
776
Location
Iowa
In two words, volumetric efficiency.

In a long ramble: Volumetric efficiency because more of the fuel is converted into motivation within the fords 5.2L than within the chevy’s 6.2L because of the closer accuracy of the 4 valve’s delivery of air and fuel as well as exhaust and compression (holding) vs the chevys 2v ibc design.

I should just look it up but because the Chevy ohv mill is 19% larger net or 16.5% larger gross, and I’m assuming the intake manifold design corresponds to that (no clue or desire to look up the actual volumetric capacity of the manifold since it’s SC and that opens an entire can of theoretical anomaly distortion worms from hot point turbulence to air density at testing, etc etc) and runs 15% more atmosphere compensation (2psi) than the Ford to create 755hp from 6.2+2.65L (8.85L) it likely has about 75-85% VE considering it is using about 25-33% more fuel than the gt500 (guessing based on similar modular packages ie sc coyote’s) to achieve that power point. I’m guessing the gt500 will be shy of the 115% (roughly) that the 460hp coyote mill has, but north of 100%. This difference of ~20% VE is why the gt500 mill can better utilize the air provided by 5.2L, and a 2.65L blower.

The LT5 is cammed for a very robust 3500-7000rpm. I’d guess gt500 is cammed for a very nice 3000-7500rpm from what I see so far. Dohc is easier to cover a wider power band with because it is more accurate at moving and delivering air and fuel.

I think gt500 will be about 750hp@7000 and 650tq@4500rpm (guesstimating) compared to 755hp@6400/715tq@4400 zr1.

What I’m going to be surprised to see is if the torque is above 650lb/ft. On my 5.3L modular with stage 3 ported gt500 heads and 9.3:1 compression, 15psi is about 980whp and 860wtq (120 gap) with twin 62’s. On 10psi, it’s a 815whp and 710wtq (105 gap).

I think ford will have done very very well if they can shrink the gap between hp and tq to under 100 for such a safe but high level factory effort running over 12psi. As boost goes up, torque doesn’t keep up wit hp in high rpm engines. On 30psi for example, I make 1200whp and only 970wtq for a difference of 230.

Also, keep in mind Ford will offer something like 5yr warranty on this engine. I’m replacing head gaskets and timing components every 10k miles on my 5.3 and zr1’s are catching fire/blowing up at a higher than expected rate. I think ford has some new tech in the head sealing on this gt500 that will come to be appreciated.
so what your thoughts are, is that it wont make over 750 HP and 650 torque?
I'm trying to make heads or tails of the DBK quote a page back, referring to the most expensive Corvette in a straight line. no way, at almost 400lbs heavier will keep up, ESPECIALLY with less HP. this thing has to be up above 770, wouldn't you think?
 

railroad

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Messages
2,118
Location
warrior, al
It’s hints at (imo) hp, and 2.6L sc.

I’d hope the vehicle is geared to be around 1600rpm in 7th@55. Maybe 2250@75mph

It’ll depend if 4th or 5th is 1:1. Now if 6th is 1:1, then 7th being .85 would be about 3500@70 which is too high imo.

1:1 4th would be 3 overdrives which I don’t expect. I think it’ll be something like

1st 3.15
2nd 2.5
3rd 1.8
4th 1.3
5th 1.0
6th .8
7th .65

I’ve been plotting plotting option strategies this morning... I think I need to put the math and markets down and go get laid. Way to many numbers in my head. The guy that went mega aggressive on option futures yesterday ($500,000,000 position) is probably on to something, or trying to bust the market up nasty/false confidence... can’t tell

I like those numbers with the exception of 1st. I am thinking about 2.95. No experience in this field. Guess the rear gearing will have a lot to do with the lower trans gear numbers.
 

Snoopy49

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
6,690
Location
California
It’s hints at (imo) hp, and 2.6L sc.

I’d hope the vehicle is geared to be around 1600rpm in 7th@55. Maybe 2250@75mph

It’ll depend if 4th or 5th is 1:1. Now if 6th is 1:1, then 7th being .85 would be about 3500@70 which is too high imo.

1:1 4th would be 3 overdrives which I don’t expect. I think it’ll be something like

1st 3.15
2nd 2.5
3rd 1.8
4th 1.3
5th 1.0
6th .8
7th .65

I’ve been plotting plotting option strategies this morning... I think I need to put the math and markets down and go get laid. Way to many numbers in my head. The guy that went mega aggressive on option futures yesterday ($500,000,000 position) is probably on to something, or trying to bust the market up nasty/false confidence... can’t tell

This was posted by 1 Alibi 2 over at fordgt500.com.

TREMEC has unveiled this family approach with a 7-speed, 900Nm (664 lb-ft) dual clutch transmission that takes into account a modular design for RWD, AWD and transaxle platforms.

All subsystems and components were precisely designed to assure maximum performance of the complete transmission system. The system is optimized by unique friction material, efficient hydraulics, low-leak solenoids, plus a transmission control unit equipped with sophisticated, application-specific software.

Features at a glance:
•Seven forward speeds
•Modular design for rear-wheel drive (RWD), all-wheel drive (AWD) and trans-axle platforms
•Torque capacity of 900 Nm (664-lb-ft)
•9,000 RPM maximum input speed
•Performance-oriented gear ratio spread
•Integrated mechatronics

DCT Gear Ratios
.
1st - 3.14
2nd - 2.05
3rd - 1.43
4th - 1.0
5th - 0.86
6th - 0.68
7th - 0.56
Reverse - 2.76
...............................As torque is limited to 664 lbs., what could the hp # be ????
 
Last edited:

paluka21

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
2,599
Location
Maryland
This was posted by 1 Alibi 2 over at fordgt500.com.

TREMEC has unveiled this family approach with a 7-speed, 900Nm (664 lb-ft) dual clutch transmission that takes into account a modular design for RWD, AWD and transaxle platforms.

All subsystems and components were precisely designed to assure maximum performance of the complete transmission system. The system is optimized by unique friction material, efficient hydraulics, low-leak solenoids, plus a transmission control unit equipped with sophisticated, application-specific software.

Features at a glance:
•Seven forward speeds
•Modular design for rear-wheel drive (RWD), all-wheel drive (AWD) and trans-axle platforms
•Torque capacity of 900 Nm (664-lb-ft)
•9,000 RPM maximum input speed
•Performance-oriented gear ratio spread
•Integrated mechatronics

DCT Gear Ratios
.
1st - 3.14
2nd - 2.05
3rd - 1.43
4th - 1.10
5th - 0.86
6th - 0.68
7th - 0.56
Reverse - 2.76
...............................As torque is limited to 664 lbs., what could the hp # be ????

I think that was some people's concern, in that the DCT *could* be the limiting factor on the car, if or when the car is modified.
Or has Ford/Tremec implemented additional strengthening hardware within the DCT being used that will beef it up?
 
Last edited:

conceptmachine

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
776
Location
Iowa
I believe that torque rating is rated at GVWR of something like 5290lbs, and the Gt500 is maybe 4200lbs.
My guess is it can handle more than 664 at the weight of the GT500.
whether ford puts more than 664 into it, I'm guessing not. I'll guess the 5.2 can rattle off 770HP and 662 Torque;)
 
Last edited:

tt335ci03cobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
6,967
Location
USA
This was posted by 1 Alibi 2 over at fordgt500.com.

TREMEC has unveiled this family approach with a 7-speed, 900Nm (664 lb-ft) dual clutch transmission that takes into account a modular design for RWD, AWD and transaxle platforms.

All subsystems and components were precisely designed to assure maximum performance of the complete transmission system. The system is optimized by unique friction material, efficient hydraulics, low-leak solenoids, plus a transmission control unit equipped with sophisticated, application-specific software.

Features at a glance:
•Seven forward speeds
•Modular design for rear-wheel drive (RWD), all-wheel drive (AWD) and trans-axle platforms
•Torque capacity of 900 Nm (664-lb-ft)
•9,000 RPM maximum input speed
•Performance-oriented gear ratio spread
•Integrated mechatronics

DCT Gear Ratios
.
1st - 3.14
2nd - 2.05
3rd - 1.43
4th - 1.10
5th - 0.86
6th - 0.68
7th - 0.56
Reverse - 2.76
...............................As torque is limited to 664 lbs., what could the hp # be ????

Those ratios surprise me but tremec would know best what they need.

Truth told, you really don’t need a short spread of gears with 7500rpm and 750hp... I remember my t56 had
2.66
1.78
1.3
1.0
with a 3.55 rear and 26” tires when it made 660-756whp at 6500rpm, and the gearing felt too short.

My current combo is a t56 same ratios but 3.73 rear and 8k rpm, 26” tire, feels slightly too short.

If the 2020gt500 is hitting 0-60 in 3.5 seconds with:
•7500rpm
•those ratios
•28” tire
•3.73

that means it’s reaching:

1st 53mph
2nd 81mph
3rd 117mph
4th 152mph
5th 194mph
6th 246mph
7th 299mph
 
Last edited:

TT/MW

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
137
Location
MI
cb4f5eecee47299cbaf90d6b9bc23a9a.jpg
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top