GT350 whipple problems

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
Hello

I'm Toni from Barcelona Spain.

I would like to begin this new thread to help all the people having problems, like I have, with his gt350 whipple charged.

My history: car is a 2016 mustang GT350 whipple charged and since arrived to Barcelona the car was never running good. Engine suddenly stops when driving on hiway, unstable idle, when start the engine (cold) goes to 3000rpm and then stall, lack of power…engine goes very bad.

The car was new and the whipple where installed in USA by a well-known shop. I have pictures and a video of the car on a Dyno.

First I check the exhaust as the reading of the left O2 sensor after the cat was bad, left cat was not working properly. I removed the cat and my surprise was when I saw the inside honeycomb was melted. Probably a bad tune when was on a Dyno.

Install a new set of cats but engine still not running good.

I check twice all the engine sensors with the help of Ford VCM, snapon Verus and more electronic devices I already have. The conclusion was all the sensors where working good.

So I decided to go for a new custom tune as the tune the car have from whipple was no good. The well-known shop sends the ECM to whipple to install the tune when did the supercharger install.

I contact to Jon Lund to do a new tune, they told me this cars have problems with this whipple supercharger kits and need some parts to be changed to work properly.

New Brisk plugs and Dynamics 1050x injectors was a must so I changed the actual injectors and sparkplugs. Actual injectors had the reference erased and have no idea about them.

Once the custom tune was done by Jon Lund, need only 4 times Tune/data log sending, the car was a beast. Now the car runs strong and very well.

Every time you install a new tune, the ECM need to do a new idle relearn cycle so need to do some traffic light driving and start stop sequence to let the ECM learn the new engine working parameters.

Now the car runs good but when cruising at light throttle I have some engine hesitations.

If I do normal or hard throttle acceleration the transition between vacuum and boost are linear with no hesitation.

I check the bypass valve and all was good. No mechanical issue as the butterfly runs free.

I check the vacuum values where the butterfly (actuator) works. When 5"of Hg (vacuum) actuator begins to move the bypass butterfly, as increase the vacuum the butterfly increase the opening angle since 10"of Hg (vacuum) when the butterfly is fully open.

Engine idle vacuum is 20” of Hg, If I'm cruising at 11"ofHg vacuum (bypass valve fully open) and road goes up and do a very slow throttle acceleration then vacuum decrease and when arrives at 5"ofHg and the bypass is fully close then the vacuum suddenly increases and goes to 11"ofHg and bypass fully open again and power of the car goes down, If then I following increasing throttle suddenly pass from 11"of vacuum to 5"of boost and the car do a hard acceleration.

It’s a mechanical issue and not a tune adjustment problem.

Here I send to you a picture of what I'm trying to explain.

Doing some evaluation of the problem I have, I arrived at the following conclusion:

When I’m cruising and engine arrives at 5” of Hg vacuum the bypass is closed and the blower is working as an inlet restriction so the intake vacuum increase and goes very fast to 11” of vacuum so bypass fully open and power goes down.

So I think the solution will be a vacuum actuator that closes the bypass at 0” of Hg, a low vacuum actuator from 1”hg vacuum closed to 5”hg vacuum open Kevlar reinforced VA816 from JB Performance.

If the bypass valve closes near 0”hg vacuum, the blower begins to work and do not act as an inlet restriction so inlet vacuum will not increase again.

This is my theory, I will buy this vacuum actuator and try if it works.

Will be good to know the open/closed vacuum actuator values of someone who have a whipple supercharger on his GT350 and don’t have this cruising issue.

Thanks

I contact to whipple from different email address I have and never respond to me. I think they are very busy solving the problems his products have.
1.jpg
 

abr_a

New Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Houston
Check the radiator water, spark plugs and check the fueling system it might be just that the gas is different then The United States and making the problems


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
 

TBCobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Beer Money Bros.
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
9,255
Location
SC
Do those cars have egr valves? I had an issue with how my car ran when holding the throttle pretty steady or mild acceleration and after my tuner turned it off in the tune it fixed it right up.
 

jvandy50

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
2,293
Location
AR
There is a huge thread on another forum about part throttle hesitation, but it’s on the coyote...unsure if it could be the same issue. I’d definitely be contacting whipple again as they tout their customer service being so good
 

JCSIX13

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
29
Location
MA
I just Installed a Whipple on my car this past weekend. I had a couple of minor issues and Whipple was very quick to respond. I would email [email protected] he is their tune guy.

Jack
 

moncho

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
413
Location
Out West
I have recently installed a Whipple 2.9 Gen3 on my '07 GT500 and have a similar issue with hesitation just not as pronounced. This issue appears to be crossing platforms so it's not a GT350 or GT500 only problem. I reached out to another reputable tuner and he confirmed my tune was spot on, however he had concern about the plugs I was using. The plugs are the NGK Tr7IX, gapped at .028". He stated they are very cold plugs and could cause spark blow out. He recommended the NGK TR6's, so I swapped them out yesterday but haven't test drove the car yet, not getting my hopes to high. I'll upload my hesitation datalog along with a 3rd gear pull. Don't have access to "LiveLink" to help determine at what point the bypass actuator closes but I think it's close to 0" Hg. If someone can verify with the uploaded datalog file that would be great. I'm currently running @ -16" of Hg at idle & up to 17/18 psi of boost. Car is a beast that's for sure. I have reached out to Whipple and have gotten their support, however for some reason their tech support is extremely busy. Could it be because of this issue? I really don't know. The following is a video I took using my scope to help determine the bypass actuator operation:

Here's a link...

Whipple confirmed it operated as designed.

EDIT: log022_Hesitation_R2 was a revised tune. log025_Hesitation_R3 was also a revised tune but adjustments were made for the hesitation, which moved it up to about 1800 RPM instead of idle RPM.

Toni - thank you for posting this thread & I hope you don't mine me uploading a few files. The more information communicated the better.

Best of luck & glad you at least have a drivable car.
 

Attachments

  • log0026_3rd_Gear_WOT.csv
    41.8 KB · Views: 201
  • log0022_Hesitation_R2.csv
    68.2 KB · Views: 219
  • log0025_Hesitation_R3.csv
    114.6 KB · Views: 215
Last edited:

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
Check the radiator water, spark plugs and check the fueling system it might be just that the gas is different then The United States and making the problems


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Water and plugs are ok. Tune are done for Euro 98RON fuel, and it s a custom tune sending datalogs to Jon Lund. Euro98 are equivalent to your 93.
Thanks
 

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
Do those cars have egr valves? I had an issue with how my car ran when holding the throttle pretty steady or mild acceleration and after my tuner turned it off in the tune it fixed it right up.
Coyote (5.0) and woodoo (5.2 flat crank) engines do not have EGR valves.
Thanks
 

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
There is a huge thread on another forum about part throttle hesitation, but it’s on the coyote...unsure if it could be the same issue. I’d definitely be contacting whipple again as they tout their customer service being so good
I think whipple supercharger kits are the same for coyote and woodoo engines, only the tune are different, so maybe the bypass valve actuator are the same.
untitled.png

Thanks
 

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
I just Installed a Whipple on my car this past weekend. I had a couple of minor issues and Whipple was very quick to respond. I would email [email protected] he is their tune guy.

Jack
Yes at the beguining of my isues when car arrived to Barcelona I contact to Jeff (whipple) but couldn't solve my problem so I contact Jon Lund and he did a great job.
Your car is a GT350 ?
If yes, do you have the assamble instructions of the whipple kit and could find if there is any information about the vacuum actuator ?
Thanks
 
Last edited:

Toni

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
9
Location
Spain
I have recently installed a Whipple 2.9 Gen3 on my '07 GT500 and have a similar issue with hesitation just not as pronounced. This issue appears to be crossing platforms so it's not a GT350 or GT500 only problem. I reached out to another reputable tuner and he confirmed my tune was spot on, however he had concern about the plugs I was using. The plugs are the NGK Tr7IX, gapped at .028". He stated they are very cold plugs and could cause spark blow out. He recommended the NGK TR6's, so I swapped them out yesterday but haven't test drove the car yet, not getting my hopes to high. I'll upload my hesitation datalog along with a 3rd gear pull. Don't have access to "LiveLink" to help determine at what point the bypass actuator closes but I think it's close to 0" Hg. If someone can verify with the uploaded datalog file that would be great. I'm currently running @ -16" of Hg at idle & up to 17/18 psi of boost. Car is a beast that's for sure. I have reached out to Whipple and have gotten their support, however for some reason their tech support is extremely busy. Could it be because of this issue? I really don't know. The following is a video I took using my scope to help determine the bypass actuator operation:

Here's a link...

Whipple confirmed it operated as designed.

EDIT: log022_Hesitation_R2 was a revised tune. log025_Hesitation_R3 was also a revised tune but adjustments were made for the hesitation, which moved it up to about 1800 RPM instead of idle RPM.

Toni - thank you for posting this thread & I hope you don't mine me uploading a few files. The more information communicated the better.

Best of luck & glad you at least have a drivable car.


My previous car build by myself was a 2012 gt500 with vmp supercharger, 2,4 pulley, 15% OD damper, long tubes, 64mm ford racingTB , JLT intake, Brisk plugs, McLeod clutch, carbon fiber shaft, no Cats, eaton true trak differential, and boost was 22psi. Tune was made by Justin Starkey and then modified for upgrades by Alex Flores. This car never had any problem, runs very strong, never did any hesitation.

I always use Brisk plugs, never had any issue, your car will be good with Brisk GR14YS recommended for all 07-12 GT500 under 18psi.

My gt350 issues are cruising at light throttle, at wot runs excellent, I’m convinced my problem is the wrong bypass vacuum actuator, must be a low vacum actuator(0” Hg closed to 5”Hg open) but to be sure I would like to know if Gt350 whipplecharged that are running good have the standard vacuum actuator or the low vacuum actuator. Maybe my whipple supercharger kit comes from whipple with the wrong actuator.
I check my vacuum actuator with a brake vacuum pump and a good vacuum gauge, runs free whith no mechanical isues. (5"Hg vacuum close to 10"Hg vacuum open).
I have installed a boost/vacuum gauge in my car and could see when hessitation happens, and can go for this hesitation with my throttle going to 5"hg of vacuum when hesitation appears.

Thanks
 
Last edited:

JAJ

Rapidly Losing Interest
Established Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
794
Location
in the V6L
I remember having a smoothness problem with my 2011 Coyote 5.0 with a TVS on it, and to make sure there was no underlying issue, I locked the bypass open with a zip tie and took an easy drive around the neighborhood to see if there was hesitation or any other kind of rough running when the bypass wasn't opening and closing. My recollection is that it ran great - it was only when the bypass was closing or closed that I had the problem. I think I fixed it with a tuning change though (I have SCT Pro Racer). Sadly, I can't remember what I changed, although I can say for sure that I didn't change the bypass actuator.

The thing is, from the point of view of the blower, your 5.2 isn't that different than your 2012 5.4. A little smaller displacement, a bit higher revving and a different cam, but otherwise it's just another engine. So look at the bypass setup on the 5.4 and see where it's set. If there's a difference, then maybe you're onto something.
 

JAJ

Rapidly Losing Interest
Established Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
794
Location
in the V6L
When I was doing my tuning for driveability, I set up a pair of analog MAP sensors (GM parts, as I recall) and plumbed them into the manifold - one ahead of the blower behind the throttle and one after the blower as a boost reading. My SCT X3 allowed me to record the analog signals along with the ECU PID's. To figure out what was going on, I measured both manifold pressures, electronic throttle position, Mass Air Flow (MAF) and LOAD. With the bypass open, the chambers are connected and both pressures are the same. When the bypass closes at 5" of vacuum, the pressures should stay the same as they were and as each other. That may sound surprising but it's pretty simple logic: the MAF and the RPM determine the post-blower pressure at the intake valves, which doesn't change just because the bypass closes. Similarly, MAF and Electronic Throttle plate position determine pre-blower pressure, and since MAF doesn't change, that pressure doesn't change either. In short, closing the bypass when there's still vacuum in the intake gets the system ready for making boost, but otherwise it should be a non-event.

Once the throttle is open far enough that you've got essentially atmospheric pressure on the inlet to the blower, you'll start producing boost. Until then, the pre-blower and post-blower pressures should be pretty much the same.
 

JAJ

Rapidly Losing Interest
Established Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
794
Location
in the V6L
When I was doing my tuning for driveability, I set up a pair of analog MAP sensors (GM parts, as I recall) and plumbed them into the manifold - one ahead of the blower behind the throttle and one after the blower as a boost reading. My SCT X3 allowed me to record the analog signals along with the ECU PID's. To figure out what was going on, I measured both manifold pressures, electronic throttle position, Mass Air Flow (MAF) and LOAD. With the bypass open, the chambers are connected and both pressures are the same. When the bypass closes at 5" of vacuum, the pressures should stay the same as they were and as each other. That may sound surprising but it's pretty simple logic: the MAF and the RPM determine the post-blower pressure at the intake valves, which doesn't change just because the bypass closes. Similarly, MAF and Electronic Throttle plate position determine pre-blower pressure, and since MAF doesn't change, that pressure doesn't change either. In short, closing the bypass when there's still vacuum in the intake gets the system ready for making boost, but otherwise it should be a non-event.

Once the throttle is open far enough that you've got essentially atmospheric pressure on the inlet to the blower, you'll start producing boost. Until then, the pre-blower and post-blower pressures (vacuum readings) should be pretty much the same.
 

abr_a

New Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Houston
Do those cars have egr valves? I had an issue with how my car ran when holding the throttle pretty steady or mild acceleration and after my tuner turned it off in the tune it fixed it right up.

It might be a tuner mistake in something go to Chris in Heideman racing dynamics he will help you out or if you are not in Texas you can call him +1‭(832) 604-6381‬


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

abr_a

New Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Houston
There is a huge thread on another forum about part throttle hesitation, but it’s on the coyote...unsure if it could be the same issue. I’d definitely be contacting whipple again as they tout their customer service being so good

Whipple for the new engines is not good and it’s not going to give you the hours power that you need I would recommend to go with procharger I use procharger in my car and I haven’t have any problems for 1 year


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

TBCobra

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Beer Money Bros.
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
9,255
Location
SC
It might be a tuner mistake in something go to Chris in Heideman racing dynamics he will help you out or if you are not in Texas you can call him +1‭(832) 604-6381‬


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

I'll look him up. I'm having other mild issues I need to get sorted out. I have another dyno session here in town to go over some things. We'll see how that goes.
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top