GT500 Heat Exchanger question

[whitedevil95]

So finally got my GT500 Afco HE mounted up. After a long wait my Stewart pump and hose kit will be here on Thursday. My questions are
1: I’m planning to go trunk tank -> pump -> HE -> IC -> Trunk Tank, does that sound right?
2: which part of the HE should be the inlet? Upper fitting or lower fitting?

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[biminiLX]

No you want INTERCOOLER brick to get the coldest water first---trunk tank to pump to IC then HE.
Great upgrade.
-J

 

[Skitzerman]

Hot fluid into the top, cold fluid out the bottom.

 

[whitedevil95]

Ok so Trunk tank > pump > Intercooler > HE > back to tank?


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[Soap]

Hot fluid into the top, cold fluid out the bottom.

No. You ALWAYS flow into the bottom and out the top, this prevents you from ever getting air pockets. Same principle applies to the intercooler (in the bottom and out the top).

As for flow path, you want to go tank->pump->HE->intercooler->tank. Justin will tell you the same. The coldest fluid is the fluid that is exiting the HE and therefore you want that going into the IC. An argument can be made that if you use ice it will "heat up" by going through the HE and while I would agree with that the increase is negligible and the argument is ONLY while you are icing.....all other times while driving the coldest fluid is what comes directly out of the HE. So while icing you might increase the fluid temp by like 5* but that will not impact performance AT ALL over a 10 second pass. I have plenty of datalogs and passes to support this info.

--Joe

 

[cj428mach]

Most engines have the hot entering the radiator at the top, cool discharge line is the bottom.

Why the long wait on the pump stuff? Get it from j2fab?

 

[Soap]

Most engines have the hot entering the radiator at the top, cool discharge line is the bottom.

We are not talking about engine cooling/radiators.

Again, the flow for the intercooler system should ALWAYS be in the bottom port and out the top port. Applies to both the intercooler and the heat exchanger.

--Joe

 

[cj428mach]

We are not talking about engine cooling/radiators.

Again, the flow for the intercooler system should ALWAYS be in the bottom port and out the top port. Applies to both the intercooler and the heat exchanger.

--Joe

Whats the difference?

 

[Soap]

I don't know all the differences but some include the fact that the thermostat blocks flow in the lower line (whereas the IC fluid is always moving), the radiator system is pressurized (IC system is freeflow) and that the radiator has a high point to bleed air/fill from (IC system just has the tank to add fluid).

--Joe

 

[cj428mach]

I don't know all the differences but some include the fact that the thermostat blocks flow in the lower line (whereas the IC fluid is always moving), the radiator system is pressurized (IC system is freeflow) and that the radiator has a high point to bleed air/fill from (IC system just has the tank to add fluid).

--Joe

None of that makes sense. The thermostat should have no effect on air bleeding, it should actually make the problem worse (thats why people drill holes in their thermostat to aid in bleeding.

IC systems do run at pressure

The IC system tank is your air bleed, no different than 60's Ford Galaxies with their reservoir tank higher than the radiator to let air out.

 

[Soap]

Mike look man......you're a smart dude and I don't see a need to keep going back and forth about the differences between the IC system and the radiator. If you are plumbing the IC system with the inlet high and outlet low, you are wrong.

The point of this thread is that the correct way to plumb it is inlet low and outlet high. That's all I got to say.

--Joe

 

[2000GTSTANG]

Did you get brackets from Malcolm?

Im curious as to how much more cooling this HE can provide with half of it blocked by the bumper.

Also, are there any specs for the stock IC? Like how much heat that thing can pull out of the system? That seems to be the limiting factor over the HE (well maybe not the stock HE).

Im thinking of doing this but with the stock crash bar. The foam will block the upper half of the HE so it may be useless. Might not be worth it over my Gords HE w/ fans.

And regarding the in/out of the HE. I've read before that the lower port is the inlet, upper is the outlet. I doubt having them switched is going to change anything other than making the system harder to bleed.

The HE should always be next inline after the pump and before the IC. Cooler fluid can absorb more heat!

 

[whitedevil95]

Did you get brackets from Malcolm?

Im curious as to how much more cooling this HE can provide with half of it blocked by the bumper.

Also, are there any specs for the stock IC? Like how much heat that thing can pull out of the system? That seems to be the limiting factor over the HE (well maybe not the stock HE).

Im thinking of doing this but with the stock crash bar. The foam will block the upper half of the HE so it may be useless. Might not be worth it over my Gords HE w/ fans.

And regarding the in/out of the HE. I've read before that the lower port is the inlet, upper is the outlet. I doubt having them switched is going to change anything other than making the system harder to bleed.

The HE should always be next inline after the pump and before the IC. Cooler fluid can absorb more heat!

This is a dual fan unit with the larger fans that can really pull some air. So I dont worry much about the bumper blocking half of it. Stock crash by will need to be cut quite a bit to work along with the foam. Id steer clear of that personally and just get the crash bar.

 

[SVT_Troy]

Not only do I agree, Ford agrees which is the reason why they designed the system like that. Input goes in the bottom and outlet is at the top. This is a picture from the Gt500 but same design.

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[cj428mach]

Unless im looking at that wrong it shows hot going in the drivers side top and the blue cold arrow coming out the pass side bottom. You can also see where they show the radiator flowing the same way.

Heat rises, it doesnt make sense to have the hottest fluid going into the bottom and trying to cool the fluid as it goes up the same way heat is rising.

 

[Shadow Grey 03]

Unless im looking at that wrong it shows hot going in the drivers side top and the blue cold arrow coming out the pass side bottom. You can also see where they show the radiator flowing the same way.

Heat rises, it doesnt make sense to have the hottest fluid going into the bottom and trying to cool the fluid as it goes up the same way heat is rising.

Hot air rises. Doesnt really flow the same as water/coolant. You are over thinking it. I ran my lines in the same manner as the stock setup. The pump fed the bottom of the HE and came out of the other side since it was a single pass unit when it was stock. Then it ran to the IC brick and to the fluid tank and back to the pump. The reason people bypass the HE when icing at the track is because the flow goes to the HE first.
Hopefully that helps some. Haha.

 

[cj428mach]

Hot air rises. Doesnt really flow the same as water/coolant. You are over thinking it. I ran my lines in the same manner as the stock setup. The pump fed the bottom of the HE and came out of the other side since it was a single pass unit when it was stock. Then it ran to the IC brick and to the fluid tank and back to the pump. The reason people bypass the HE when icing at the track is because the flow goes to the HE first.
Hopefully that helps some. Haha.

Its not that i was saying a cool liquid will have an issue flowing to the top. What im saying is the top of a radiator is where the heat is going to want to rise to, so you wouldn't want your cooler fluid exiting that way.

Im just basing this on almost every radiator system out there. I know the other way will work but hot in top, cool out bottom makes the most sense.

 

[BLOWN9646]

^ correct. Cool in (lower), hot out (top)

 

[SVT_Troy]

Unless im looking at that wrong it shows hot going in the drivers side top and the blue cold arrow coming out the pass side bottom. You can also see where they show the radiator flowing the same way.

Heat rises, it doesnt make sense to have the hottest fluid going into the bottom and trying to cool the fluid as it goes up the same way heat is rising.

Our H/E is different. I’m talking about the intercooler


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[SecondhandSnake]

Chiming in about the great orientation debate-

The low port should be the inlet, and the upper the outlet. This is necessary because it allows you to fill it and get the air out properly. It fills from low to high, getting the air out, and the pump helps push the rest out.

If you plumb it the other way around, you're trapping a ton of air in it, and with these tiny pumps it would take forever to purge that.

Why are radiators/cooling systems totally different? Because it's a totally different configuration. You need the outlet low because otherwise the water pump is never going to get a prime. By having the outlet low, the pump will have plenty of water to pull from, and it doesn't matter if there's air at the top. Imagine trying to prime a water pump from the top of the radiator, especially with a bad fill. It would stall and you'd have a ton of problems.

The heat rising thing is kind of a moot point. The vast majority of the heat is not rising, unless you're sitting completely stationary with zero airflow through the core. And in that case you're not really rejecting any heat at all. When it's working, the vast majority that heat is going aft of the cooler to the point the fan blast is usually very close to the core temperature. Not to mention it's very irrelevant with a crossflow arrangement. It may be different with a downflow, but in this case it's a series of parallel paths, so it's not really inhibiting flow. Thermal currents are also very weak compared to pump pressure.

From a practicality standpoint, going tank-pump-HE-IC would provide for the most effective air bleed. The downside to that is if you get it really hot you might have to worry about cavitation at the pump. But you're going to need to heat soak it and get well over 225 deg F.

You could go the tank-pump-IC-HE route, which would reduce that risk and allow you to ice it, but you would need to add in a bleed point between the IC and HE, and possibly plumb the HE with the inlet high and outlet low to let the air out as you fill it, depending on how the return line to the tank is routed.