Havent read anythign about Gears???

[Silver 03 Cobra]

03DOHC, what do you think flaming is? If you're happy with 3.55's I'd recommend you stay with'em. But, I don't make decisions or recommendations on something "I think" will work. I have several people already lining up their 03's for me to work. I have let a few guys drive my 03 and they are sold on 4.10's. I know what I'm talking about because I've worked on IRS Cobras ever since they come out in 99 and I am on my third IRS Cobra. Funny to me that everyone that is running 500-600 HP where I run at use 4.56's. Must be a reason.

Thanks Hammer. Unless someone has driven a 4V with 4.10's you don't know what you are missing.

Racerat, if you have a 99 Cobra, just swap out the rear ends. They are identical. I've done too many to know.

 

[03DOHC]

I don't wish to hijack this thread. I searched the previous posts and you were talking about getting flamed in this one-->Click Me . This is the post I was referring to. Flaming to me is when people call you stupid or similar.

I have driven DOHC's w/ higher than 4.10's. I had 4.30's in my '97 Cobra. I was also a Ford Mechanic and have done gear installs too, so it's not like I have no clue, nor do I claim to know everything. JGMO.

Funny to me that everyone that is running 500-600 HP where I run at use 4.56's. Must be a reason.

Are these guys running a stock height tire? Is their tire height 25.6"? 4.56's w/a 32.5" tire maybe...JMO.

 

[T3 Cobra]

Originally posted by Hammer
I agree with Silver03Snake 100%.

I just had 4.10's done in my car. They were Motorsport gears and I would not go with any other brand. I had the work done at Crazy Horse Racing. The whole job (parts and labor out the door) was $750. Now that's about $100 more than some shops charge but mine were DONE RIGHT. No howl, no whine, no vibrations, no noise whatsoever.

Why is it so expensive to do gears? To do the job right, it's about 5-6 hours of labor. Wheels have to come off, IRS has to come apart, axles come out and whole third member is removed and worked on at a workbench for a few hours.

Mike Rozman is the head tech at Crazy Horse and does all the ring and pinion jobs. They are done right. I am very happy.

As far as performance with 4.10's over the stock 3.55's, many people have a wrong idea on this board. You can't feel the difference? You are smoking crack. Do 4.10's make the car lose any of it's drivability or luxury charm? No way...not if they are done right. No, the tires don't crack loose uncontrollably. But they can if you want them to. Is it harder to launch? A little bit...but EASILY adaptable.

4.10's are probably the lowest gear (numerically highest) that you can put in your snake without any sacrifice to the car's manners. It does make the car tach a bit more on the highway but I have EXACT measurements for those thinking about it:

At exactly 80 MPH in 6th gear, I am at exactly 2750 RPMs with the stock wheels/tires. Is that taching out? Naaaah!! It's fine.

Do 4.10's have a benefit for racing on stock tires? You can bet the WHOLE FARM on it. I have heard people say that 4.10's will only benefit for the 60'. IN A PIG'S EYE!!! :dw: I'll race ANY 03 with similar mods to mine but with 3.55's. We can race out of the hole or at any MPH roll and I will piss all over them. Hit it at 25 MPH? I'll pull on you...bigtime. 40 MPH? Bye-bye! 60 MPH? See ya.

What you get with 4.10's is a dramatically decreased time requirement in the car's ability to reach shifting RPM in EVERY gear. I shift from first to second at about 6400. I shift from 2nd to third at about 6400. I shift from third to fourth at about 6400. Instead of it taking 3-4 seconds between those shifts, it now takes 2 seconds flat. Why? Cause the car reaches 6400 RPMs that much faster with gears. Now you lose a bit of MPH at the various RPM's. That's the nature of lower gears. In other words, when I shift from second to third at 6400, I am at 55 MPH instead of 60 MPH now. But I am shifting between second and third before the 3.55's are anywhere near ready for the same shift.

The net result of the entire holeshot? The 4.10's will walk away from the car with stock gears...slicks; drag radials; stock tires...it doesn't matter....3-4 tenths quicker (apples to apples that is).

Now someone said HP is better than gears. There's two aspects of car performance that must be identified: fast and quick.

Fast: this is your MPH at the track. Fast is accomplished with HP and torque. It is never cut and dry...any good mod will improve both fast and quick to some extent. But a smaller pulley is largely a fast upgrade. Exhaust is largely a fast upgrade.

Quick: this is your ET. Quick mods may change MPH but only very little. But a good quick mod will GREATLY enhance your ET at the track. I think gears is the best quick mod we can do. 4.10's are perfect in my opinion. I don't have experience with any lower gears but all professionals tell me that going with a lower gear starts to create sacrifices in the car's drivability and comfort factors. I am not willing to do that.

Someone talked about the rev limiter in 4th gear with 4.10's. I haven't been to the track with the 4.10's yet but I can tell you this: In fourth at 6400 RPMs, I am at over 127 MPH. Now that's with stock wheels and tires. So I won't be bouncing off of the limiter up top...not with my mods. And a taller tire will make the MPH go up considerably. So we don't need to change the tires all the way up to 500 rwhp with 4.10's.

Like I said, my opinion is that they are awesome. Best mod to date.

Just my .02.

Hammer you are my God :burnout:
I did not know anything about gears, but after reading your bench explaination so we all could understand I go with the 4.10s. :coolman:

I live in Roanoke, Va. does anyone know of the best around for gear install??

 

[Blue03Cobra]

Originally posted by Hammer
Someone talked about the rev limiter in 4th gear with 4.10's. I haven't been to the track with the 4.10's yet but I can tell you this: In fourth at 6400 RPMs, I am at over 127 MPH. Now that's with stock wheels and tires.

I just plugged the numbers (stock 275/40-17) into the Corral calculator and got 119, maybe it's wrong...?

 

[03DOHC]

Originally posted by Blue03Cobra
I just plugged the numbers (stock 275/40-17) into the Corral calculator and got 119, maybe it's wrong...?

I got the same result w/a different program.

 

[jtfx6552]

OK, the only thing that will get you down the track is more power. So the question is, can 4.10's transfer more power to the track than 3.55's can?

The answer is, only if you have enough traction. So if you run slicks, or some reasonable equivalent of slicks, you can possibly get a better ET.

On street tires, forget about it. There is no way you'll get a better ET; you'll be lucky not to lose time. Here are the reasons:

1) With street tires, there is already enough torque available to overpower the tires. Any extra torque available to overpower the tires does no work, and cannot help you get down the track.

2) Events that happen early in your run have a more dramatic outcome on your ET. Have you ever noticed that if you miss second, or have a crappy 1-2 shift your ET will suffer dramatically, but if you miss fourth or have a crappy 3-4 the ET is still not to bad? The reason is at the 3-4 shift you are already going 107 MPH, so even though you aren't accelerating you are still getting down the track. At the 1-2 you are only going 50 MPH (with 3.55's). Anyway why is this relevant? Because you are momentarily not applying power to the track during every shift and now each shift happens sooner, which is a more critical point in the run. Even if you shift like a trained mongoose, all shifts, but especially the 1-2 now have a more pronounced effect on your ET.

3) Ok, so you can shift like a trained mongoose, what happens next? You shred the tires on the 1-2 shift. So now, not only have you moved the shift to a more critical point, but you loose more ET while you either spin the tires, or lay off the power in some way to get into second with some traction.

4) Now you have more overall reduction in every gear, so you have to be applying more torque (force more appropriately) to the track, right? Well, what about this. With the 4.10's you have 10.9:1 overall reduction in first gear, so with (using round numbers for simplicity) 460 ft*lbs you can apply 5014 ft Lbs to the track (if you have traction). With 3.55's you can only apply 4343 ft*lbs. So the 4.10 car will pull out (again with traction). With street tires the most likely result is, at best you’ll stay even since both cars have the same traction. But then what happens when you hit 6500 RPMs? In 1st with the 4.10's at 45 MPH, you have to shift into second, and assuming again, you have traction you can now deliver 3357 ft*lbs to the track. But guess what? The car with the 3.55's is still in first however and is still putting down 4343 ft*lbs! So now while you are spinning or granny shifting on the 1-2, the 3.55 car is motoring down the track. This is repeated for every gear.

5) As some have pointed out, depending on mods, you will run out of RPMs in fourth.

6) OK, so do I have any proof of my BS? To me I do, you can believe it or not. I started racing an ’82 GT in 1983. The car started with 3.08’s, then had 3.73’s, 4.10’s and finally 4.56’s. Every time I changed the rear, I would run the car with only that change. EVERY time, the gear change hurt the ET. The only way to get it back was to strap on the 28 x 9 slicks. When I sold the car it had a 351 W in it and ran Mid 11’s at mid 120’s so I think I know from where I speak.

7) Silver, not a flame, you can say what you want, but you have 30-40 HP on me and still your best 1/8 is off from mine at all three tracks I run at. So your track sucks, I get that, but hey, is every track around here great?

8) Hammer, if you don’t have exhaust yet (even if you do, but the results would be a lot murkier), it might be nice in the name of science of course, to line up at the strip and see what happens. I plan on going to Cecil this Wednesday.

Again, I am not flaming anyone. I just want to point out what I have found in my 20+ years draggin’ and modifying experience (Damn I’m getting’ old).


I feel that best case, again, not on slicks, is that the gears will not cost you anything. I think for $650.00-1000.00 people can really add HP, which always helps.

JT

 

[IcebourgGT500]

I have had two Mustangs bith with gears. My 89 LX 5.0 had 3.73's and Heads/Cam set-up. The gears made the car pick up 2-3 tenths in the 1/4 mile. My 96 Cobra had 3.73's and later 4.30's. I use to commute 120 miles round trip daily in the car and with the 3.73's I got 23 miles to the gallon. (Before with the 3.27's - 25/26 miles per gallon-highway.) But the performance picked up about 3 tenths in the car. With the 4.30's I felt the car was over the limit in streetability and fuel economy suffered greatly (18-19 mpg highway) the car picked up another 2 tenths over the 3.73's. I beleive 4.10's are a great gear ratio if you plan on running the car at the strip alot. I have heard alot about traction on this forum and rarely here people running drag radials. I love drag radials and drive on the street with them always. I beleive they are less of a shock to the rear end then ET Streets and you can control wheel slip better with air pressure. I know when I get my 03 one of the first mods will be 4.10s. It is something that no one knows about by listening to the car at idle. I have 4.10's in my WS6 Formula and thought this was the best mod for money spent ($400) I did the work it myself.

Hammer I would have to agree with your view on the gears and feel you are correct with your statements.

I know it sounds like I am preaching about the drag radials alot on my reply's but I have never been able to be fast nor consistent on the F1's or any other street radials.

Good Luck and be Safe!! My .02 cents........

 

[f4sfed]

Originally posted by Hammer
I agree with Silver03Snake 100%.

I just had 4.10's done in my car. They were Motorsport gears and I would not go with any other brand. I had the work done at Crazy Horse Racing. The whole job (parts and labor out the door) was $750. Now that's about $100 more than some shops charge but mine were DONE RIGHT. No howl, no whine, no vibrations, no noise whatsoever.

Why is it so expensive to do gears? To do the job right, it's about 5-6 hours of labor. Wheels have to come off, IRS has to come apart, axles come out and whole third member is removed and worked on at a workbench for a few hours.

Mike Rozman is the head tech at Crazy Horse and does all the ring and pinion jobs. They are done right. I am very happy.

As far as performance with 4.10's over the stock 3.55's, many people have a wrong idea on this board. You can't feel the difference? You are smoking crack. Do 4.10's make the car lose any of it's drivability or luxury charm? No way...not if they are done right. No, the tires don't crack loose uncontrollably. But they can if you want them to. Is it harder to launch? A little bit...but EASILY adaptable.

4.10's are probably the lowest gear (numerically highest) that you can put in your snake without any sacrifice to the car's manners. It does make the car tach a bit more on the highway but I have EXACT measurements for those thinking about it:

At exactly 80 MPH in 6th gear, I am at exactly 2750 RPMs with the stock wheels/tires. Is that taching out? Naaaah!! It's fine.

Do 4.10's have a benefit for racing on stock tires? You can bet the WHOLE FARM on it. I have heard people say that 4.10's will only benefit for the 60'. IN A PIG'S EYE!!! :dw: I'll race ANY 03 with similar mods to mine but with 3.55's. We can race out of the hole or at any MPH roll and I will piss all over them. Hit it at 25 MPH? I'll pull on you...bigtime. 40 MPH? Bye-bye! 60 MPH? See ya.

What you get with 4.10's is a dramatically decreased time requirement in the car's ability to reach shifting RPM in EVERY gear. I shift from first to second at about 6400. I shift from 2nd to third at about 6400. I shift from third to fourth at about 6400. Instead of it taking 3-4 seconds between those shifts, it now takes 2 seconds flat. Why? Cause the car reaches 6400 RPMs that much faster with gears. Now you lose a bit of MPH at the various RPM's. That's the nature of lower gears. In other words, when I shift from second to third at 6400, I am at 55 MPH instead of 60 MPH now. But I am shifting between second and third before the 3.55's are anywhere near ready for the same shift.

The net result of the entire holeshot? The 4.10's will walk away from the car with stock gears...slicks; drag radials; stock tires...it doesn't matter....3-4 tenths quicker (apples to apples that is).

Now someone said HP is better than gears. There's two aspects of car performance that must be identified: fast and quick.

Fast: this is your MPH at the track. Fast is accomplished with HP and torque. It is never cut and dry...any good mod will improve both fast and quick to some extent. But a smaller pulley is largely a fast upgrade. Exhaust is largely a fast upgrade.

Quick: this is your ET. Quick mods may change MPH but only very little. But a good quick mod will GREATLY enhance your ET at the track. I think gears is the best quick mod we can do. 4.10's are perfect in my opinion. I don't have experience with any lower gears but all professionals tell me that going with a lower gear starts to create sacrifices in the car's drivability and comfort factors. I am not willing to do that.

Someone talked about the rev limiter in 4th gear with 4.10's. I haven't been to the track with the 4.10's yet but I can tell you this: In fourth at 6400 RPMs, I am at over 127 MPH. Now that's with stock wheels and tires. So I won't be bouncing off of the limiter up top...not with my mods. And a taller tire will make the MPH go up considerably. So we don't need to change the tires all the way up to 500 rwhp with 4.10's.

Like I said, my opinion is that they are awesome. Best mod to date.

Just my .02.

I agree with Hammer! It's about getting the engine to it's sweet spot...and keeping it there.