Hellion IAT's too high

KingCobra10Sec

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I have the stock intercooler that comes with the Hellion Single kit, on a 50 degree day my IAT's are around 90 degrees and I am not even pulling to redline.

Any new intercooler suggestions that is more of a bolt on?
 

TRBO VNM

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are you looking at your IAT1 or IAT2?

I have not heard of anyone having an issue with IAT's.

the IAT1 sensor isn't even used. I know it is in the instructions and everything, but it is used to turn on the intercooler pump. so it isn't needed with the turbo setup.

the IAT2, my first question is where do you have it located and can you get pics?
 

KingCobra10Sec

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I will get a pic up later this week, I dont know if people are aware of this issue, but I dont think the intercooler if efficient enough, sure you can make big power. But I like big safe power.
 

Bullitt357

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I will get a pic up later this week, I dont know if people are aware of this issue, but I dont think the intercooler if efficient enough, sure you can make big power. But I like big safe power.

I'm sure if it were an issue there would be more posts about it, considering how many Hellion cars are out there.
 

Burque97

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How low of an IAT are you looking for exactly?

90* is actually pretty low. They certainly aren't going to be anywhere near ambient. Even N/A your AIT's wouldn't be at ambient. Heat transfer from the engine to your intake tube would raise your AIT even 5-10*, even on a cold day.

With boost, 90* is pretty good.
 

syclone50

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I still use the IAT1, it is mounted in the end of the filter. I then have the IAT2 mounted on my 01 cobra intake, right below to the cobra emblem.

With my aeroforcetech gauge I am able to monitor both temps at the same time. When it is 80 degrees outside it is cool to see the IAT1 at 80-85 and the IAT2 temps just slightly above at cruise. NOW at wide open thottle my IAT2 temps would drop to 50 or less because I am injecting meth. It gives me some positive reasurance that the meth is working.

Last time at the track it was 80 degrees. After the pass my IAT2 temps were 37 degrees at the end of the track!!!!!

But for the OP I have never seen IAT2 over 140 while idling. And as soon as you crack the throttle and let some cold air in the temps come back down.
 

Juiced46

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The Hellion intercooler is good until you are up above 20psi, thats when we started seeing high IAT2s. @ 19psi on a 78mm through the stock IC and piping it was around 105-108 at the top of a pull. @ 22psi the same car was seeing in the 130-140s.

My car with the Precision I start seeing IATs over 100* around 19+ psi. It usually stays around 20-30* above ambient after a pull.

Seeing 90* isnt that bad at all on a 50* day. How much boost is that on. It could be worse you could have an Eaton or KB car.

If you want more airflow you can also notch the bumper support like this

Notchedbumpersuport.JPG
 
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Kevin @ Wicked

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These are IAT1 this is a 1999 Cobra it only has the one sensor.
Also the iat being used is part of the maf, in blow thru, on the cold side pipe prior to the TB.

Cruising around and stabalizing the Iat's on a 50* day will yeild 55* temps. Car is setup right now with only 13psi, on a 3rd gear rip from say 2000 rpm to 5500 rpm we are seeing ending IAT's of 95-100*. The data doesnt lie. Getting outta it and cruising they return quickly to mid 50's.

Car runs great but was just a little concerned at how much warmer we are seeing compared to higher boost centri's and bigger coolers.
 

TRBO VNM

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These are IAT1 this is a 1999 Cobra it only has the one sensor.
Also the iat being used is part of the maf, in blow thru, on the cold side pipe prior to the TB.

Cruising around and stabalizing the Iat's on a 50* day will yeild 55* temps. Car is setup right now with only 13psi, on a 3rd gear rip from say 2000 rpm to 5500 rpm we are seeing ending IAT's of 95-100*. The data doesnt lie. Getting outta it and cruising they return quickly to mid 50's.

Car runs great but was just a little concerned at how much warmer we are seeing compared to higher boost centri's and bigger coolers.

ok, well, I am not sure how accurate that will be using the one in the MAF compared to how the terminator guys read temps. I know Jon Lund told me about that once before on the sensors, but I never used that. IMO, that is going to be just like the IAT1 reading and won't be the same as in the intake.

I can tell you I have run 10-20# on the street and never had issues. I have ran 25# at the track and again, never had issues. In every kit out there there are things that can be upgraded. I don't have data to back up when the intercooler becomes a restriction. I know the same one is used on 800-900 rwhp cars and I haven't read of them having issues yet either. But maybe they aren't posting.

Dave,

I would be interested to see if your temps are still the same if you are driving and not making pulls on the dyno.
 

Kevin @ Wicked

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The sensors incorporated into the slot style sensors are VERY accurate, the ecm uses this info for very important calculations, it has to be. Even the IAT'1 sensor of a Termy is accurate. IAT1 IAT2 it doesnt matter, the 99 only has one sensor reading for the ecm, and we spiced it into the maf harness to read, and its at the intake charge just entering the motor, so its reading correct air temp being ingested.

Making power isnt the question, a cooler can flow very well to support a number, but doesnt mean its doing its job removing heat from the charge.
 

Juiced46

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Dave,

I would be interested to see if your temps are still the same if you are driving and not making pulls on the dyno.

We use a really good fan on the dyno so it does help being at a stand still and keeping it cool on the dyno. I have some logs from street driving and all the logs are pretty much the same as far as IAT2 on a 1-4th run compared to what it is on the dyno.

Kevin on the 99/01 Cobras and Machs I use a Lightning IAT sensor and tap it into the intake manifold hat for IAT reading. So it works essentially the same as the 03/04 Cobra IAT2 does. It does seem that the temps are a little higher then norm on this particular car you are talking about. A 50* jump over ambient on 13psi seems a little to much. Id be curious to see how much higher it would be if the ambient temps are around 70* if it makes much difference. Id bet the IATs would be around the same from what you are seeing now @ 13psi to if it were 70-80* out. I will have to check my logs but Im almost 100% certain Im around 20-30* over ambient on a 75-85* day on anything lower then 19psi. After 19-20 you see it starting to climb up and I think thats when the efficiency of the Hellion stuff may come into question. I.E IC and piping size. Notching the bumper for more flow to the IC like I did wouldnt hurt either.
 

thomas91169

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boost leaks?

they will cause the turbo to have to work outside its efficiency range to meet the desired boost level.

btw if you are getting up to 90* on a 50* day at the top end of a pull, thats not bad at all. no intercooler will maintain ambient temps at WOT with turbo running full bore. Now if it continues to rise and never caps off, then you have a poor intercooling apparatus.
 
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Kevin @ Wicked

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boost leaks?

they will cause the turbo to have to work outside its efficiency range to meet the desired boost level.

btw if you are getting up to 90* on a 50* day at the top end of a pull, thats not bad at all. no intercooler will maintain ambient temps at WOT with turbo running full bore. Now if it continues to rise and never caps off, then you have a poor intercooling apparatus.

I know well enough on intercooling, forced induction isnt new to me. I made a comment to the customer when he was buying this kit because i saw the setup on a previous car we had to piece back together and i ask if he could get the kit minus the cooler and pipes because i would have like to fab up our own stuff and use our own core.

Made another blast today before customer picks up and a 3rd gear romp to 5500 is yeilding a 40* above ambient increase. We were about 50* before the hit, and by 5500 and 14psi, at 90. If we continued the pull to 6500 like we intend to spin this combo to (didnt because we are still on break in) im sure it will be higher than 90. Im just concerned with a 1st thru 4th pull as the heat gets compounded and the core starts to heatsoak.

Im taking LOADS of data from all the centri cars we do and high boost applications and comparing it to this and so far we arent impressed. Thats all.
This isnt a thread to say it doesnt make power etc, the car feels unreal at only 14psi and 5500 rpm, i can only imagine what its gonna be like at 6800ish.
But the IAT's will have to have a watchful eye.

Dave Im familiar with the lightning iat, used to use em on the 2v centri's when we were still draw thru, we opted for the IAT built into the HPX sensor, its right at the TB, so its reading a fairly accurate indication of air entering the motor once the intake is flushed out and cooled by the incoming charge. If we were using the metal lightning sensor and had it drilled and tapped right in the intake i would suspect higher readings than what we are seeing. Just like the 5.0's and eec-4's we always move the threaded one outta the intake runner and into the charge pipe just prior to the TB to get a more accurate reading of air prior to heatsoak from intake.
 

TRBO VNM

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well, since I don't tune, not sure how much more help I can be and Jon Lund is at training all week or I would ask him to come in and offer his input.

between cool air and summer heat with my first turbo car, I never experienced any concerns. the only time it would ever get a little hot was continued romping.
 

KingCobra10Sec

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well, since I don't tune, not sure how much more help I can be and Jon Lund is at training all week or I would ask him to come in and offer his input.

between cool air and summer heat with my first turbo car, I never experienced any concerns. the only time it would ever get a little hot was continued romping.

Well that is the problem, This car is a weekend warrior that will be romped on late week nights, and weekends during spring and summer season. But by then I may actually start to like mustangs again and sink some cash into a more efficient intercooler and bigger radiator.
 

TRBO VNM

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Well that is the problem, This car is a weekend warrior that will be romped on late week nights, and weekends during spring and summer season. But by then I may actually start to like mustangs again and sink some cash into a more efficient intercooler and bigger radiator.

what is your definition of romped on? probably different than mine.
 

KingCobra10Sec

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I would say romped on will be when I am coming home from somewhere lately night and highway is clear I will probably take it up to 60 to 120mph just for the hell of it. And a race every week.
 

TRBO VNM

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I would say romped on will be when I am coming home from somewhere lately night and highway is clear I will probably take it up to 60 to 120mph just for the hell of it. And a race every week.

yeah, my definition is just a little different.

I am talking repeated WOT pulls, keeping the car in higher rpm's to stay in the powerband, etc. I don't see any problem with what you are doing.

hell, if you are worried, here is a good example. with my first car I went on the hot rod power tour. basically about 5hr drives everyday from city to city to our stopping points. kinda like the gumball run, but we weren't racing to the finish. the final day was up in Englishtown, NJ in the middle of the summer. over 100 degree heat. after a 5+hr drive there, I got 5 gallons of C16, let the car cool for 1hr(not much in that heat), put it on the dyno and made 2 back to back pulls over 700rwhp and won the dyno challenge for that leg of the race, but really ended up beating everyone out. and there was no fan on the front of the car. then an hour later drove back to Maryland. no issues at all.
 
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thomas91169

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Made another blast today before customer picks up and a 3rd gear romp to 5500 is yeilding a 40* above ambient increase. We were about 50* before the hit, and by 5500 and 14psi, at 90. If we continued the pull to 6500 like we intend to spin this combo to (didnt because we are still on break in) im sure it will be higher than 90. Im just concerned with a 1st thru 4th pull as the heat gets compounded and the core starts to heatsoak.

gotta remember too, it will only get heatsoaked to a certain point and your IAT2's will level off. Maybe someone with data on how hot of IAT2's with xxx turbo setup should get at X amount of boost can chime in.

Also, the faster you are moving, the more air is moving through the intercooler, so the amount it will heatsoak at 120mph is less than at 60mph.

Lastly, if you are worried about cylinder temps and egt's, perhaps a secondary injection system (meth/alchy/h20) is in your future.
 

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