Where is the data? This data shows mustang gt last longer on track than 350 tech pack?
I want both - Track pack and Technology package in GT350
- Thread starter OH3Cobra
- Start date
There have been a number of Tech Pack owners that have logged the issue. It's out there and if you search for it you'll see it. And yes, there have been instances where Mustang GT's were able to press on in the same session where GT350 Tech Pack cars hit limp and backed off.
I respect your knowledge and insight Tob, but how can one compare two cars being driven by two different drivers pushing their cars to different levels? Ex: one would believe a mustang gt running 52 is being pushed harder than a 991 gt3 running 56's.
I'm not saying it can not happen, however without hard repeatable data it's a stretch to say the base mustang lasts longer on track than a base 350/tech.
I'm not saying it can not happen, however without hard repeatable data it's a stretch to say the base mustang lasts longer on track than a base 350/tech.
The Mustang GT does not have a temp sensor in the transmission (AFAIK) so it doesn't go into limp mode when the tranny temps get high. The GT350 does. This is why GTs are still running hard when Tech Pack 350s are having to slow down to cool off.
I'm with Tob. I'm sick to death of all the cry-baby Ford blaming going on. Just the fact that a Track Pack was offered that differed from both the base car and the Tech Pack was enough to get my attention. I was initially planning on buying a Tech Pack with the understanding (in my own mind) that somehow it would be less capable than a Track Pack equipped car if I ever drove it on a track.
What stopped me, aside from the local dealer wanting way too high an ADM, were reported instances of Tech cars going into limp mode on the street. That just should not happen.
FWIW, Ford did release marketing material when the car was announced that clearly deliniated the differences between the different options packages. JMO, but if someone bought a Tech Pack and was later surprised at the need for coolers when tracking the car it's all on them. If a Tech owner wants to add coolers they can do so at any time. I've seen people post about how and what they did to resolve the issue for under 1K in parts and their own labor. It seems to me that a lot of people are sitting around waiting on Ford to give them the equivalent of a '17 MY car at little or no cost to themselves.
I'm with Tob. I'm sick to death of all the cry-baby Ford blaming going on. Just the fact that a Track Pack was offered that differed from both the base car and the Tech Pack was enough to get my attention. I was initially planning on buying a Tech Pack with the understanding (in my own mind) that somehow it would be less capable than a Track Pack equipped car if I ever drove it on a track.
What stopped me, aside from the local dealer wanting way too high an ADM, were reported instances of Tech cars going into limp mode on the street. That just should not happen.
FWIW, Ford did release marketing material when the car was announced that clearly deliniated the differences between the different options packages. JMO, but if someone bought a Tech Pack and was later surprised at the need for coolers when tracking the car it's all on them. If a Tech owner wants to add coolers they can do so at any time. I've seen people post about how and what they did to resolve the issue for under 1K in parts and their own labor. It seems to me that a lot of people are sitting around waiting on Ford to give them the equivalent of a '17 MY car at little or no cost to themselves.
Thanks. So it's not that the tranny or other drivetrain components are weaker or can't handle the abuse of track days. This makes sense. Can one just pull the tranny sensor and be good?
I believe Ford underestimated how quickly these cars would go into limp mode. It has existed for years in various models. In 96 there was a TSB for the Cobras that upgraded the entire radiator and cooling system due to overheating. The terminators would heat soak, same as the 07-09 Shelbys. It was just expected after a few laps. I don't remember it happening as much with the 11-12, but they had the track pack cars then. For 13-14 they had performance pack and then the track pack coolers on top of that. So, Ford has definitely known the need for coolers on these cars. With the IRS, the packaging is much smaller and you don't have the axle tubes for additional fluid capacity and cooling.
Should the electronics owners be upset their cars can't even complete a 20 minute session? I believe so. On most tracks that is probably 10-12 laps at most. That really isn't very long.
I also think it speaks volumes that Ford has addressed it for the 2017 models. Ford basically admitted they screwed up by no longer allowing anyone to order an electronics package without coolers.
Tom
Should the electronics owners be upset their cars can't even complete a 20 minute session? I believe so. On most tracks that is probably 10-12 laps at most. That really isn't very long.
I also think it speaks volumes that Ford has addressed it for the 2017 models. Ford basically admitted they screwed up by no longer allowing anyone to order an electronics package without coolers.
Tom
I don't know. If you could remove the actual sensor and relocate it then the car would probably not go into limp mode as the sensor would not record the transmission overtemp. I don't think you'd be doing your transmission any favors though, and I don't know if removing the sensor is possible.
Agreed. They either underestimated the issue or were trying to hit a specific price point and gave this issue secondary consideration.
From an article that our very own Steve Turner did (that Ford didn't want us to see)...
I would not recommend yanking the sensor, relocating it, or any other trickery in an attempt to mask the true temperature.
On edit, a better view of the temperature sensor location on a GT350 TR3160 that I was building a stand for.
I would not recommend yanking the sensor, relocating it, or any other trickery in an attempt to mask the true temperature.
On edit, a better view of the temperature sensor location on a GT350 TR3160 that I was building a stand for.
Last edited:
I think it's more of Ford playing big brother. They figured they had to protect the consumer from themselves for '17 and took away an option since people were too ignorant to see what each option actually offered.
Tob, you do alot for the community and a I appreciate that. I agree with what both you and Colleton have said to some degree.
I ordered my car long before the reports of limp mode were out. I, like Colleton almost did, ordered the Tech Pack with the understanding that it would be less capable than a Track Pack on the track, but not necessarily that it would go into limp mode.
I never thought that the car would be outperformed by lesser cars.
That said, we are where we are. Most Tech Pack owners are willing to pay for the coolers, nobody is sitting around waiting for Ford to "give" out the equivalent (although that isn't unprecedented given the TSB for the cooling on the Cobras in the 90s). Like Tom said, Ford definitely realized how prevalent the issue is and corrected it in 2017.
If Ford would come out with a turnkey solution that was priced somewhere in the ballpark of the price difference between the 16s and 17s to pay for the added hardware with no impact to your 60K5yr warranty, that'd be fair.
I think the long pole in the tent is that the transmissions are literally different on the two cars. It's not as simple as Ford just selling and installing the coolers and plumbing. Otherwise, this would probably already have been offered. However, they could release a complete kit with an external pump, but to date the rumored kits from Ford will be absent a pump.
i feel for you guys that are dissapointed in your cars. i have a 16 tech pack and i am very happy with it! i suspect most owners will never push these cars high rpms for extended times which will send it into limp mode. sprited drives on 95-100 degree days have not sent mine there. does anyone think that mabye the clearances in the trans may make this worse/better from car to car? has anyone tried different fluid? not trying to start a war but just opening these things for discussion. i know two other people who have tech cars and they are also happy with theirs
Good question...
This temp sensor for manual trans is new to me, but obviously the engineers felt it necessary.
An upgraded fluid and a trans 'pan/scoop' to cool the trans as several companies offered for the S197s would be easy upgrades to try first.
-J
An upgraded fluid and a trans 'pan/scoop' to cool the trans as several companies offered for the S197s would be easy upgrades to try first.
-J
Ford has not solved the cooling issue for 2016.tech pack models but has in 2017. So our performance is limited and our resale value as well.
I have spoken to Ford they aren't very helpful, spent quite a few hours doing the research and have found a Law Firm that gets it, class action? Interested in being a class member? [email protected]
I have spoken to Ford they aren't very helpful, spent quite a few hours doing the research and have found a Law Firm that gets it, class action? Interested in being a class member? [email protected]
I love my tech car... less the lack of power I expected from a car flying the Shelby name. It is the car I drive the most and look for every opportunity to drive it.
I haven't had it on the track yet, but I bought it as a weekend racer... maybe 5 or 6 open track events a year. No full blown racing though. Been down that rabbit hole.
Anyway, its known that the reason the trans overheats and goes into limp mode on the tech cars because the Cats overheat the trans. Without the additional oil cooler found in the track cars, the car overheats and shuts itself down.
To help prevent this on the tech cars, you can change the oil to something like Royal Purple Max Gear, but you need to shield the trans from the Cats. Best bang for your buck that I have seen so far come from Shelby American. They have a transmission cooler scoop that funnels air to the trans and has integrated heat shields to isolate the cats and trans gear box.
I'm going to start running laps in the Spring. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
going back to this old thread, I traded my car in on a 17 with the options I wanted in the first place. still had no problems with the tech pack when I had it but I think the heat from the cats has to be some of the problem. good luck in the spring
You voluntarily purchased a car with track coolers and now you want Ford to pay for it to be installed?
That's outrageous!
It is not outrageous when Ford advertised this car as the most track capable Mustang ever and a standard GT will outlast it at an open track. 15 minutes until limp mode is unacceptable. It has also been shown that a tech car without cats still overheats the transmission.
Not going to disagree. It's pretty damn sad, to be frank. We shouldn't have to become mechanical engineers to figure out creative ways to do what Ford didn't do, just so we can enjoy the car "as advertised".
Last edited:
Users who are viewing this thread
