IRS gear carrier bolts backed out.

supman

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Hi, new to the site and am amazed at the sheer volume of info available. Thanks to all.

Well here goes my problem and am hoping someone may have seen or heard of this before.

Bought a used clean 2003 Cobra. Drove it for about 1000 miles. One day as i'm coming to a slow left into my street, i downshift to second and when i let out clutch the engine just revs and car does not accelerate. I pull over immediately to investigate. Everything sounds normal and as i let out clutch in first the car does not move. I notice though the speedo shows speed. So i am already thinking its not clutch. Tow it to my mechanics shop and here is what he finds... all the bolts holding the ring gear to the carrier in the differential have backed out and are sitting in the dif. Gears are shot, cover is cracked, housing is scored...

The gears are 4.10 so we quickly formulate an opinion as to what happened. Previous owner must have had the 4.10's installed and some idiot did not loctite the bolts and/or did not torque the bolts properly.

With new parts ordered and a 3.73 ratio selected the dif is rebuilt. All parts are cleaned and bolts are loctited and torqued.(this guy has probably done over 100 gear swaps for mustang guys). All is well and car runs great. No gear noise and the mileage is a little better too.

Car is put away for winter with about 500 miles on the rebuilt dif.

Fast forward 5 months and the Cobra is pulled out of hibernation. I put maybe another 500 miles on it when one day i take an exit of the freeway and am just coasting in 6th. Suddenly i feel a violent lurch as if the car wants to stop. I pull over to investigate in a large parking lot.(Deja vu at this point). Car makes funny noise from dif in reverse and coast, but ok under acceleration. Luckily my mechanic is only about 5 miles from my location and i was able to get it there without any more incident.

He finally is able to get to it a week later and here is what we find when he removes the irs dif....
Two bolts have backed right out, fallen into housing and the rest of the bolts have all backed out about 3/16" (Deja vu). This time there is major damage to the carrier, gears are shot, housing is scored beyond repair, cover is cracked...

Hence the reason for my post in the classifieds "looking to buy a complete dif. or even a housing and cover.

I would really appreciate all yours help if anyone has heard of this problem.

My only worries are I will replace the dif, and have the same problem again.

We checked the driveshaft for runout-ok
We checked the half shafts-ok
I have had the car up to 140mph and never ever had any vibrations coming from the rear end.

My only other solution is to drill and lockwire the bolt heads this time.

Please help.:idea:
 
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Wayne64SS

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did you re-use the carrier or the bolts when you rebuilt it? i'd have to say the threading there is where your problem lies.
 

supman

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Original carrier was good.
New bolts in the overhaul kit were used.
New clutch kit was installed with new spider gears.

Bolts go through the carrier and thread into the ring gear.
 

black 10th vert

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I have never heard of this happening before, let alone twice! What is interesting to me is that you didn't re-use the gears, or the bolts, and it still happened anyway.:??: My only thought would be to replace the entire pumpkin this time, as there may be some machining internally that is not correct, and causing this to happen.:shrug:
 

20SVT03

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My auto teachers used to call this "FM" f**king magic. It makes no sense at all. Ive done countless gear changes and maybe only torqued the first few the rest went on with an 1/2" impact. I dont even see how a warped or over spread case would cause this to happen. Maybe the ring gear is not seating properly on the carrier when its being torqued down and then once its in the car and start driving the ring gear shifts and now all of your bolts are not tight anymore
 

kmadona

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Supman, I have a 04 that I bought 2 years ago with 7000 mile on the clock. Five weeks after I pcked it up I was pulling out of Autozone and I hear a pop and grinding. Pulled over and checked and found gear oil coming out of the rear pumpkin. I get the car to my brother in laws shop and pulled the IRS. The car had 3.73's installed and a Mustang Freaks cover. Three of the ring gear bolts backed totally out and all the others were finger tight. Whoever did the install didn't use loctite on the ring gear.
 

bubblehead93

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had this happen once many years ago now. did you verify that the holes through the carrier were not elongated from the first occurrence. when it happened to me i had to scrap the differential due to this elongation.. if you reused the carrier with enlongated or egged bolt holes it may have contributed to the second occurrence.
 

supman

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I have never heard of this happening before, let alone twice! What is interesting to me is that you didn't re-use the gears, or the bolts, and it still happened anyway.:??: My only thought would be to replace the entire pumpkin this time, as there may be some machining internally that is not correct, and causing this to happen.:shrug:

I agree with you.
I have posted in the parts for sale section looking to buy complete differential assy. Hopefully someone has just done the solid axle swap and has an IRS diff. kicking around. Thanks for your help
 

supman

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My auto teachers used to call this "FM" f**king magic. It makes no sense at all. Ive done countless gear changes and maybe only torqued the first few the rest went on with an 1/2" impact. I dont even see how a warped or over spread case would cause this to happen. Maybe the ring gear is not seating properly on the carrier when its being torqued down and then once its in the car and start driving the ring gear shifts and now all of your bolts are not tight anymore

HAHA havent heard that one for a while. MY shop teacher would just shake his head and his term was PFM (pure effin magic). I know what you mean about torque. Im normally very anal about torque, and working with my cousin who has also done countless gear changes we made sure we stoned all mating surfaces(to remove any burrs), cleaned all threads and used Loctite 271(red hi-strength). He once did a gear change for a buddy right at the track and did not have his torque wrench. That car is still running around and being launched hard with no issues to date. Thanks for your help.
 

supman

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had this happen once many years ago now. did you verify that the holes through the carrier were not elongated from the first occurrence. when it happened to me i had to scrap the differential due to this elongation.. if you reused the carrier with enlongated or egged bolt holes it may have contributed to the second occurrence.

I like your theory about the elongated holes, that is about the only thing that i cannot verify. I am looking to buy a complete diff. assy this time round. I;m thinking the assy. i have have is jinxed. To add insurance i will get another diff., disassemble it to inspect everything and then drill/lockwire all the bolts. I have a buddy who always does this with all his work. Thanks for your help.
 

02reaper

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Ive got a spare IRS differential and cover if you still need it.
 

supman

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Found a brand new dif. Just awaiting delivery now. I swear i am gonna take it apart, change out the bolts to 12 point high tensile with drilled heads, and lockwire them all.
 

1wild-horse

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DO ME A FAVOR AND CHECK THE RUNOUT ON YOUR OLD CARRIER... THERE IS A VERY TIGHT TOLERANCE ( .003") Just did gears in mine 1000 mi. ago. been down the track about 8 passes, now the driveline has a little slack. I'm guessing i've got a similar problem, runout on mine was about .009". Didnt have a new carrier so i put it in anyway.... mistake now i assume.
 

supman

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bolts lockwired

So i took out five bolts with the carrier still in the housing (every alternating one).
Drilled the holes in the five bolts using a .051" drill bit.
Cleaned the holes and bolts.
Used Loctite 271 on the threads and torqued the bolts to 84 ft.lbs.
Repeated the above on the next five bolts.
Lockwired the 10 bolts in pairs using .032" stainless wire.
Now i am just awaiting some parts i ordered from Full Tilt Boogie.

Here are some pics:

[*IMG]http://img444.imageshack.us/g/dscn09011.jpg/[/IMG]
 
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black 10th vert

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What did you use for a drill bit? Did you buy a drilling fixture? If that doesn't solve your problem, you should just buy a solid axle, and call it a day!
 

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