John Lund Jr talks about the future of tuning.

Corbic

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I don't know for sure, but the EPA can't enforce emissions on private property correct?

Yes they can and do. Just look at lawn mowers, generators and power sports.

Additionally they own a fleet of drones to spy on farmers and ranchers and hit them with fines.

Side By Sides all come with cats and in California I know a Can Am will have an air pump as well.

Maybe you are confusing the EPA with the DOT?
 

Rb0891

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Yes they can and do. Just look at lawn mowers, generators and power sports.

Additionally they own a fleet of drones to spy on farmers and ranchers and hit them with fines.

Side By Sides all come with cats and in California I know a Can Am will have an air pump as well.

Maybe you are confusing the EPA with the DOT?
Yes. People should Google delineated wetlands if you think you "own" your property.
 

SonicDTR

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Another one down.

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SonicDTR

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GTSpartan

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I don't know for sure, but the EPA can't enforce emissions on private property correct? A matter of fact I don't see how they could... Or at least efficiently. What I'm getting at, is drag strips, circle tracks, private lots, road courses etc. would become much more popular if ICE was outlawed on public roads (I'm thinking like 25+ years out, and praying not).

Even if they do somehow have jurisdiction to enforce on private property, there's no way they would have the resources to actually find everyone. And by this logic, does that mean they're going to start looking for ****ing lawn mowers and side by sides with emissions removed??? Lol it's a joke. Most of their shit is based on scare tactics, because they don't have the funding to truly shut everything down. Either way, there will be some dude that owns a track out in the woods and people would have underground ways of communicating to get their cars out there and do whatever the hell they want. I could even see local cops being on board and turning a blind eye. ICE cars aren't going away in my lifetime. Book it.

That's why they go after the OEM's. By using their various tools at their disposal, they'll effectively get the manufacturer's stop making these products. For the stuff already on the road, they'll simply make it a real PITA for the owner's. It'll take years via attrition, but things will slowly, but surely dwindle away.

And yes, the EPA can come on private property with the "proper" justification. They do it all the time. Will they actually, and do they have the resources....who knows.
 

Corbic

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Just skim over some of this garbage.

They even hit up TaoTao (scooters) and Greddy.


"This includes all auxiliary
emission control devices ("AECDs"), which are defined as "any element of design which
senses temperature, vehicle speed, engine RPM, transmission gear, manifold vacuum, or
any other parameter for the purposes of activating, modulating, delaying, or deactivating
the operation of any part ofthe emission control system" of the motor vehicle. 40 C.F .R.
§§ 86.094-21 , 86.1844-01."
 

SonicDTR

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Just skim over some of this garbage.

They even hit up TaoTao (scooters) and Greddy.


"This includes all auxiliary
emission control devices ("AECDs"), which are defined as "any element of design which
senses temperature, vehicle speed, engine RPM, transmission gear, manifold vacuum, or
any other parameter for the purposes of activating, modulating, delaying, or deactivating
the operation of any part ofthe emission control system" of the motor vehicle. 40 C.F .R.
§§ 86.094-21 , 86.1844-01."

Yup. Yes diesels are the most visible and understandably the biggest targets, but there are still some gas-oriented companies in there as well. I suspect that is where the focus has shifted now that diesel has been so heavily impacted. There are many that shut down on their own and thus aren't on the list.
 

Corbic

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Yup. Yes diesels are the most visible and understandably the biggest targets, but there are still some gas-oriented companies in there as well. I suspect that is where the focus has shifted now that diesel has been so heavily impacted. There are many that shut down on their own and thus aren't on the list.
But they are taking such an idiotically narrow interpretation.

Sooo if I pull my vehicle speed sensor... Because it feeds the Ecu, I'm now tampering with emissions.

Are we going to ban re-gearing correction devices now too?
 

GTSpartan

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But they are taking such an idiotically narrow interpretation.

Sooo if I pull my vehicle speed sensor... Because it feeds the Ecu, I'm now tampering with emissions.

Are we going to ban re-gearing correction devices now too?

Pretty much anything that changes a vehicle from how it was certified for sale by the OEM could theoretically be considered an unauthorized alteration.:(

It'll boil down to the appetite for enforcement by the regulatory agencies.
 

SonicDTR

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But they are taking such an idiotically narrow interpretation.

Sooo if I pull my vehicle speed sensor... Because it feeds the Ecu, I'm now tampering with emissions.

Are we going to ban re-gearing correction devices now too?

Yep completely agree. The impact enthusiasts have on the environment is negligible.

They essentially want a vehicle certified as-is from the factory and any variations are illegal.

You don't hear about it much given the demographic, but off-road farm and heavy equipment is also being hammered with this stuff from my understanding.
 

Corbic

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Yep completely agree. The impact enthusiasts have on the environment is negligible.

They essentially want a vehicle certified as-is from the factory and any variations are illegal.

You don't hear about it much given the demographic, but off-road farm and heavy equipment is also being hammered with this stuff from my understanding.
Oh yeah, straight up rape.

OEMs are trying to strip us of our right to repair and own our purchases and the government trying to crush us from the other side.

Older farm equipment has skyrocketed in value since the new shit is 3x more expensive and loaded with unreliable proprietary software that shuts the rig down foe the slightest fault code needing dealer diagnosing. Additionally spare parts are nearly not existent and need to be purchased as larger insanely expensive subcomponents.
 

Weather Man

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The EPA is not accepting off road use anymore. They make a phone call saying we'll fine you for every system or drag you into court and litigate you to death. Sad times.
 

FordMoCo21

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Yes they can and do. Just look at lawn mowers, generators and power sports.

Additionally they own a fleet of drones to spy on farmers and ranchers and hit them with fines.

Side By Sides all come with cats and in California I know a Can Am will have an air pump as well.

Maybe you are confusing the EPA with the DOT?
No definitely EPA, I guess I was asking more along the lines of, if you're riding around that side by side on your 10 acres of land, and you removed the cat, are they REALLY going to come after you? Let alone even know you're doing it? I understand they enforce the OEMs, but I mean currently NASCAR, Top.Fuel, Dirt track racing etc. All run catless...
 

Corbic

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No definitely EPA, I guess I was asking more along the lines of, if you're riding around that side by side on your 10 acres of land, and you removed the cat, are they REALLY going to come after you?

Yes


Let alone even know you're doing it?

Not yet but they are working it.

Step One make it illegal to sell cat-delete exhausts and aftermarket performance parts.

Step Two, make OEMs build in tamper proof software so if you do tamper, alter or have a maintenance issue, it reports it to the OEM and shuts your vehicle down until repaired.

Step Three - annual inspections.

I understand they enforce the OEMs, but I mean currently NASCAR, Top.Fuel, Dirt track racing etc. All run catless...

And as I've said, that's changing.

Roush Fenway Racing Is NASCAR’s 1st Carbon Neutral Team

I foresee all the sanctioning race series falling Inline or venues will get pollution fines and loose their operation license.
 

svtfocus2cobra

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I don't know for sure, but the EPA can't enforce emissions on private property correct? A matter of fact I don't see how they could... Or at least efficiently. What I'm getting at, is drag strips, circle tracks, private lots, road courses etc. would become much more popular if ICE was outlawed on public roads (I'm thinking like 25+ years out, and praying not).

Even if they do somehow have jurisdiction to enforce on private property, there's no way they would have the resources to actually find everyone. And by this logic, does that mean they're going to start looking for ****ing lawn mowers and side by sides with emissions removed??? Lol it's a joke. Most of their shit is based on scare tactics, because they don't have the funding to truly shut everything down. Either way, there will be some dude that owns a track out in the woods and people would have underground ways of communicating to get their cars out there and do whatever the hell they want. I could even see local cops being on board and turning a blind eye. ICE cars aren't going away in my lifetime. Book it.

Part of the EPA's authority is to go around and inspect businesses and hand out fines for violations. In theory, that can be a good thing as you will have companies that don't give a damn about people or the environment dumping their waste into rivers, streams, lakes, or oceans and that is a good thing to enforce. This mandate is taking that to the extreme and it is an overstepping of their bounds imo.

As a whole, the US has become very environmentally compliant in comparison to the rest of the world so I do not see the need for this, especially with how many jobs and businesses this will ruin. All of them, the government and all the various agencies need to be reeled in and put under strict rules.
 

tones_RS3

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Long tube headers and going catless are going to be going bye bye.
I'm sure lots of people are going to have to revert back to emissions complaint and retuned.

What a shame.
 

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