KB Boost a pump and MAF Questions

[5882 DARK COBRA]

OK I am a novice when it comes to this.I datalogged my car with an SCT X4 and my fuel pump duty cycle is at 100% at 5800 rpms and my mass air flow count is at 950.I know I need a BAP single 40 amp so I just got one but it does not come with the dial anymore apparently as of 2014.Has anyone used this new version and also is the pre fpdm wiring still the best way and when you bypass the hob switch and solder together the long 16ft red wire and black wire together that would go to the switch does it then stay in the trunk or does it get ran to the front of the car for a power source?
I am not doing the wire upgrade as of yet.
And last what are the max MAF counts on a stock sensor? I got a new SCT BA 2600 just in case.
Thanks ahead of time for any answers you guys/ladies give.

 

[bigmoose]

1. The new baps are fixed to ~17volts without the dial.

2. Max MAF counts are 1024.

3. Wire it pre FPDM. If you are on stock pumps you can get away with the stock FPDM. You can solder the Hobbs connection together right at the BAP.

4. Don't cheap out now. Do the wire upgrade with the BAP. Order the parts from partsexpress.com. it's not expensive and needed.

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

OK.If my MAF count is 950 does that mean its starting to lean out or does it start to lean out at 1024 and beyond?

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

I'm not sure what I am looking for on partsexpress.com. this seems to have everything I think. Is this a good kit ?http://www.lethalperformance.com/review/product/list/id/3013/category/456/

or this ?
https://www.lightningforceperformance.com/Kenne_Bell_Boost_A_Pump_Wiring_Harness_Upgrade_Kit.html

 

[bubblehead93]

nothing about 950 means you are leaning out unless the fueling associated with it in the tune (MAF XFR FUNCTION) is insufficient... you way you figure that out is with a wideband since at WOT you are open loop (i.e. STFT will just go to whatever the specified lamda is for WOT and rpm in your base fuel table, your upstream O2 sensors are not providing feedback via fuel trims to control AFR like they do in closed loop)... that being said, with the fuel pump duty cycle at 100% you are likely leaning out... BAP should take care of duty cycle and the new MAF should give you a little room with AD counts if you plan to take the motor to 6500 rpm... all of this will require tuning beyond a canned tune...

r/
Andy

 

[bigmoose]

I'm not sure what I am looking for on partsexpress.com. this seems to have everything I think. Is this a good kit ?http://www.lethalperformance.com/review/product/list/id/3013/category/456/

or this ?
https://www.lightningforceperformance.com/Kenne_Bell_Boost_A_Pump_Wiring_Harness_Upgrade_Kit.html

The lethal kit comes with 10 awg wire. I prefer 8 awg that's why I put my own kit together. It only consists of wire, a fuse holder, relay, and some terminal connectors.

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

The lethal kit comes with 10 awg wire. I prefer 8 awg that's why I put my own kit together. It only consists of wire, a fuse holder, relay, and some terminal connectors.

What volts is 10 awg vs 8 awg good for ?

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

nothing about 950 means you are leaning out unless the fueling associated with it in the tune (MAF XFR FUNCTION) is insufficient... you way you figure that out is with a wideband since at WOT you are open loop (i.e. STFT will just go to whatever the specified lamda is for WOT and rpm in your base fuel table, your upstream O2 sensors are not providing feedback via fuel trims to control AFR like they do in closed loop)... that being said, with the fuel pump duty cycle at 100% you are likely leaning out... BAP should take care of duty cycle and the new MAF should give you a little room with AD counts if you plan to take the motor to 6500 rpm... all of this will require tuning beyond a canned tune...

r/
Andy

OK. I just got a wideband from speedhut but it is not installed yet .So when it is and if I'm between 11.6-11.9 afr at WOT then I should be good right and I wont need the SCT 2600 and can stick with stock MAF?

 

[bigmoose]

What volts is 10 awg vs 8 awg good for ?

Given a length of 12 feet at 20 amps you will see a voltage drop of about 0.5 volts on 10 awg. Just switching to 8 awg it goes down to 0.3. That 0.2 volts is worth a few points of your duty cycle. It's not a lot but it basically free since the 8awg wont cost you much more if any.

I think my pumps draw about 24 amps @60psi. I'm shooting for 1% voltage drop so I'm upgrading to 4AWG. 1% might be overkill but its what I prefer if I can.

 

[bubblehead93]

all depends on AD counts at 6500 rpm or so, if you run out of room with the MAF, you will lean the motor out regardless of your BAP or wiring upgrades... I don't think you'll tag 1023 counts going from 950 counts at 5800 rpm to 6500 rpm, but it will be close... you will need a re-tune with the BAP anyways, if you have the SCT 2600, I would put it in...

r/
Andy

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

Andy,I got my tune from Steeda.com because I had a real bad experiance with a dyno tuner here in my area and the car had problems but steeda sorted it out and it now seems to be running strong.I'm talking f'ed up stft at 17% at idle etc,and now there at .93 and performance is day and night .When I spoke to them about the BAP they said that I wouldn't need a tune because if I wire pre fpdm and no hob switch so it runs full time the computer will learn the pumps behavior.I'm not saying your wrong and I'm not saying there right but I have read before that this debate goes back and forth. Can you weigh in on why you feel a tune is required as most people do please.

 

[bubblehead93]

Apologize, thought I had responded, must have forgot to hit "post quick reply." I would say it is not a "must do or risk hurting the engine" type thing. With a BAP you will be getting more flow for a given fuel pump voltage. While your PCM can learn this, everytime you disconnect the battery the computer will have to relearn it all. I assume you have a mailorder tune, so it sounds like the tune you got from Steeda was closer than the one you got from another tuner. I suspect there are a number of things that could use some tweaking. At the end of the day, I would tweak on my tune to minimize how much learning the PCM had to do... as a PRP guy, I'm always tweaking on something or another (probably because I can)...

hopefully that makes sense...

r/
Andy

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

Yes you make perfect sense.And yes I am using a mail order from steeda that is also why I am trying to learn as much about my car through data logging as possible to avoid going to a tuner because of my past situation .(everytime I went on the dyno he would say I need this or this is to lean and charge full price even though we never finished one full run.) This happened a few times,first time shame on you ,second time shame on me.So in other words if I can avoid a dyno tune I will.I know its not the norm but It's just how I feel at the moment.
Thank you so much for your response and thorough answer.

 

[bubblehead93]

reminds me of my own experience, guy wanted to troubleshoot on the dyno w/datalogs vice me just taking my car back and datalogging to figure it out - found it was a cam issue (driver side head replacement by ford in 2005, secondary timing chain off by one tooth)... in any event, went PRP and never looked back... I have never had my car on a dyno... while some things are best done on a dyno from a safety perspective, nothing about tuning requires a dyno...

r/
Andy

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

Same here I went just to check if my tune was good and turns out it had a lean stft condition and every time we datalogged it had to be on a dyno so it cost me 3 dyno pulls for a half of 1 run lol
then a compression test,buying a stock maf and more datalogging,replacing 02 sensors,etc next was sending the injectors to be flow tested which I stopped right there and said screw this I can get the same sct x4 and livelink he was using and then I read on here if I run my car in 3rd gear to get a close 1 to 1 it would be close to a dyno pull.He wanted 550 to tune the car.My gut was telling me no.So I took a shot with a free tune for life by steeda and my stft is good so here I am trouble shooting away and thank god for this forum because without it I would be lost in the mist.I soon will be installing the BAP and a speedhut afr gauge so I can monitor what he was looking at myself.I figure if I'm gonna spend money it better be on something I can keep Using myself as an investment. what does prp mean?this is all new to me.

 

[Black02GT]

PrP is the Pro Racer Package it's the name for the personal use license for the Advantage III software the tuners use to tune the car. The handheld alone only gives you very very limited adjustments (if any depending on if the tune was written with options or not). The SCT Advantage software gives you access to adjust pretty much every adjustable option in the ECU, you still need the handheld too though.

Bubblehead is giving you great info, just happened to come across this and was bored so I figured I'd reply.

Where in NY are you and who did you have the bad experience with (PM if you like)? Just curious, I had great experiences with one NY tuner and bad with another, now I just do it myself.

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

PrP is the Pro Racer Package it's the name for the personal use license for the Advantage III software the tuners use to tune the car. The handheld alone only gives you very very limited adjustments (if any depending on if the tune was written with options or not). The SCT Advantage software gives you access to adjust pretty much every adjustable option in the ECU, you still need the handheld too though.

Bubblehead is giving you great info, just happened to come across this and was bored so I figured I'd reply.

Where in NY are you and who did you have the bad experience with (PM if you like)? Just curious, I had great experiences with one NY tuner and bad with another, now I just do it myself.

How does someone get a license to be able to have all options possible for tuning ? and pm sent

 

[Black02GT]

You buy the Pro Racer Package It's $350, for the software then you can write your own tunes for one vehicle you own. That gives you access to just about everything, I say just about because the official "calibrators" have access to certain features "Pro Racers" don't. On our years PrP will do anything you need.

The Coyote 5.0 guys were bitching for awhile because I believe the drive by wire throttle stuff and some torque management stuff was restricted but nothing to do with us.

PrP is nice depending on how much you plan on changing combos and how in depth you want to go in knowing how the ECU controls things. You have to be careful though, being able to change everything means it's possible to make mistakes that can get very costly. If Steeda will give you free retunes it's really not worth the expense and effort of leaning what your doing unless you just want to have the skill/knowledge. It's a disease like Bubble said, you wind up with a perfectly fine tune, then endlessly tweak it just because you can, sure is fun though.

 

[bubblehead93]

After my "less than good but expensive" dyno/tuner experience I went with VMP mail order for awhile. Justin was great but a pretty busy guy. So I ended up buying my PRP from him and the rest is history. He helped a lot as I was just getting started. I also bought Don Lasota's book... good stuff in addition to what I was able to learn from VMP's PRP forums back in the day... Don is a great guy as well, after I bought his book, emailed him a few specific questions about transient fueling and he got right back to me with some quality info... I would buy PRP and get Lasota's book, that plus an analog cable which allows you to send two analog inputs to your sct handheld, these forums and, your off to the races...

r/
Andy

 

[5882 DARK COBRA]

Sounds like a blast.I guess it depends on how hard the mod bug bites me.If I can go the free tune route I will but for ported blower and really tweaking things out that could be an option down the road.And yes If I had that prp I would be doing the same thing you and Bubble do because once I get hooked on something it becomes like an addiction and knowing the option is out there now is very tempting .The trial and error would be a little nerve recking though lol