I was at SALEEN today in Irvine and I seen two of these BOSS 302's....They look pretty bad ass with the intake sticking out like the mach 1 but with a 302 sticker on it.
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- Thread starter Fourcam330
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That's not the car we're talking about. We're refering to one to be built by Ford.SVTZEUS said:
hogwash, the cobra competion was a 4.6 wearing the fr500 goodies, Ford rated it at 380 horses, MT ran it to 13.0's @105 or so years ago. They had it, I'll bet it would've past emissions, obviously it woulON D BIT said:
What I really love is that for the last 8 years everyones been SCREAMING for an R/Gt headed, n/a 5.4, it finally breaks that we might get one and everyone is whining its not suddenly enough. The only problem I have with the whole thing is calling it a BOSS, not because of heritage,myth,legend,brand or anything else, but merely because YOU, ME and everyone else knows there will be no way to get one for a reasonable price. If Ford dropped that motor in a plain jane Gt, I'd buy one today, no questions asked where do I sign, but they wont. Instead we'll get a 1000 run "super rare and special" worth msrp plus 10-15K mustang because of 4 fricken letters. At that rate I'd rather have an 00R.
And finally for the creative, take one AL 5.4 block, sleeve it/final hone it to 3.66", add your stock 4.165" stroke and suddenly you've got a mod 4v 351. (with the same bore spacing as the mighty LS7)
epper: dn't of had anywhere near the effect the roots blown 4.6 had.
Fourcam330 said:
lol that sounds like my car. I think the real moder day boss mustangs as far as performing like the originals is the 99-01 cobras, high reving, irs, al block, somewhat light! lol
colletti said himself that they could not get the power levels they wanted with a n/a dohc 4.6l engine. thats why they went to the blown engine. andy and tim would be able to confirm or deny this statement.:idea:
but i do have question. if ford did get 380 out of the 4.6 why could they only get 320 out of the 01 model? or better yet why did they go with the blown 03? a n/a al block 4.6 with 380 would have been a better handling car with better power to weight than the 03's that were built.
but i do have question. if ford did get 380 out of the 4.6 why could they only get 320 out of the 01 model? or better yet why did they go with the blown 03? a n/a al block 4.6 with 380 would have been a better handling car with better power to weight than the 03's that were built.
E. Green Cobra said:
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ON D BIT said:
Maybe costs? The man racer has a 5.0L naturally asperated mod motor making over 500HP. So yes the 4.6L block can be taken to a 5.0 and make way more than 400HP. It is just too expensive to put in a production vehicle. Whether or not it passes emissions or reliability testing I have no information on so that may be where it is lacking along with $$.
BlackBolt9 said:
so where are all those n/a 4.6l with 400 horses? andy has already said that the limit on the new saleen 5.0 is 400hp. there is a reason why gm went with a 6.0 to get 400 horses out of thier n/a engines.:idea:
The 380hp+ N/A 4.6 4Vs used FR500 components, most importantly a $3000 dual runner magnesium intake. They may have been able to make 400flywheel/345rwhp with that combo, but it's definitely not cost effective.
ON D BIT said:
Just to clarify, I said a 5.0L/3V stroker won't make 400rw.
ON D BIT said:
I believe it would be more correct to say that they were unable to produce said engine and keep it in line with reasonable production costs in the time frame in which they had for design and engineering.
ON D BIT said:
Yeah as mentioned its called cost. GM could have gotten more HP with less CI as well but it is cost prohibitive. And from the above post from Fourcam will you please stop touting that a 4.6L won't make 400HP? It is possible, it however is not cost effective.
Is that the intake that comes on the 5.0L cammer? I have seen one of the GAC cars with the cammer and thought it had that intake. I didn't know they were $3000 thoughFourcam330 said:
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the fact remains though, ford can not create a mass produced mustang with a n/a 380 horsepower 4.6. if they could we would already see one on the street.:beer:
this statement in no way means that one can not mod a n/a 4.6 3 or 4 valve to hit 400 horsepower crank. as per a past question to fourcam, full exhaust, intake, cam, port/polish of the heads should get you there.
this statement in no way means that one can not mod a n/a 4.6 3 or 4 valve to hit 400 horsepower crank. as per a past question to fourcam, full exhaust, intake, cam, port/polish of the heads should get you there.
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ON D BIT said:
OK I can't are that one :-D :beer:
BlackBolt9 said:Is that the intake that comes on the 5.0L cammer? I have seen one of the GAC cars with the cammer and thought it had that intake. I didn't know they were $3000 though
The Boy Racer uses FR500 heads and the dual runner intake, the Man Racer uses GT heads and a custom single (manually adjustable) runner manifold. I've heard estimates of the Man Racer intake costing $5-6k, some of that may have to do with build numbers though.
You guys do realize that there are plenty of '05'07 GT Mustangs making 300-320rwhp with N/A bolt ons. I have heard of rwhp in the 380s-400 with ported stock heads and cams.
300rwhp with a stock motor and common bolt-ons is a 350 flywheel HP car (approximate) and it doesn't cost that much. I can be done with the 4.6 3V, but why bother when you can make 400-435 with more CID which equals a milder combo which is easier to certify and had much more torque.
For those of you who are obsessed with RPM capability: If it makes the power why worry how much RPM it can turn (unless you are racing and trying to ring as much out of it as possible) in production form?
Go buy a Honda if you want RPM and no torque. LOL Just messing with you guys. Take no offense.
300rwhp with a stock motor and common bolt-ons is a 350 flywheel HP car (approximate) and it doesn't cost that much. I can be done with the 4.6 3V, but why bother when you can make 400-435 with more CID which equals a milder combo which is easier to certify and had much more torque.
For those of you who are obsessed with RPM capability: If it makes the power why worry how much RPM it can turn (unless you are racing and trying to ring as much out of it as possible) in production form?
Go buy a Honda if you want RPM and no torque. LOL Just messing with you guys. Take no offense.
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TORQUERULES said:
You've heard a good bit of BS. In fact I'm pretty sure you're thinking of BBR, who claimed 415rwhp with a stock shortblock 3v. I slammed them on the Corral over a year ago for making false claims and I don't think they've recovered yet. The fact is a $15,000 Pure Street 4v 4.6 with ported 03/04 heads, billet cams, FR500 intake, and ~12:1 C/R won't make too much more power than that; more importantly it occurs at 8500+rpm.
Lately we've seen a few reputable builders with H/C packages for 3Vs make ~340-350rw, add a little compression from a forged bottom end and you'll maybe make 360-365rw that's it.
The amount of power a motor can make is all decided in the cylinder head, and a 3v head is incapable of the type of flow that's necessary for such power.
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Fourcam330 said:
Ouch! I also noticed the throttle body on the GAC car (I'm assuming its a Boyracer or at least similar) was similar to the TB on my Lightning. Is it in fact a shared part? Am I correct in saying the Lightning TB is the same as the V10 engine and I think the '00 R as well?
Tom:BlackBolt9 said:
I'm fairly certian the '00 R had a unique TB?:shrug:
ac427cobra said:
Could be I was just wondering because the TB on the intake posted in the 2000R section by Boss 330 looks damn near identical to the TB for my truck (TPS and everything).
EDIT: Upon closer review, the TPS is backwards and the throttle linkage is upside down from the Lightning one so nevermind on that one. Damn they look the same other than that even though I'm sure there are other subtle differences (such as throttle stops, etc.)
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Fourcam330 said:
Duh. Just quoting what I have seen. I have seen the BBR shit, but have heard things from other sources. Looking at the flow gotten from these heads http://www.nmraracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46006, with a bump in compression (not huge mind you) and proper camming, etc. 350whp is possible and not at huge rpm either. Now is it smog legal or possible for the factory to repeat? Probably not, but if guys can get 300whp with bolt-ons (many not smog legal I know) then with work on the heads, etc., the factory can do that within emissions constraints. Sure it is not 380 or 400 flywheel, but 350 flywheel is not bad for a 4.6 liter V-8 with moderate compression, emissions equipment, and small heads.
I do have a couple of friends making 300whp with their 3Vs N/A with bolt ons.
I hear you and I agree. The main reason the LS Chevy motors are so popular is the head flow. Plain and simple, but also cubic inches has a lot to do with their potential. What I was getting at is it can be done with a 4.6 and today's technology. But why? Got with the CID and make it easy on yourself. I am all for this 5.4 idea if it gets a nice high powered N/A Mustang to the masses (like I stated in an earlier post).
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