Lot's of Engine Failures - Does not seem like isolated issue

jimwood

Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
701
Location
Sacramento
I will start by saying that I am looking to buy a 2019 or 2020 GT350R. However, I have been researching this case for many, many hours. I definitely get that only a small group of failures may seem like a systemic issue with the motor. However, many of the engine failures are happening prior to 5k miles and many have had engines replaced. I do not recall searching for a car and seeing so many engines replaced on CarFaxs. On some occasions, the engines have been replaced twice.

Is there a definitive reason or weakness that can be addressed with the car? The one thing that I have heard is break-n is critical. However, nothing on pinpointing exactly what is causing the issues?
 

ANGREY

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
553
Ford has been very hush because they don't want the cost of major recalls or retooling. MANY of the engine replacements were excessive oil consumption and that's either by the rings or by the valve seals. If Ford knows, they aren't saying. They've ran the calc's and the number of replacements is less cost than recalling and fixing everyone.
 

DAVESVT2000

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
6,118
Location
Central Mass.
The oil consumption issues are mostly 16’s to 18’s. Some late 19’s and early 20’s had a batch of bad valves, and it seemed to be common for cylinder number 7 or 8 to break and drop a valve, seizing the motor. And most happen under 1000 miles.

other than that these cars are solid.
 

jimwood

Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
701
Location
Sacramento
Okay, this makes sense. I did recall hearing that low engine oil was something to avoid by checking oil regularly. But I did not anyone making a direct connection. (Oil consumption does not worry me. From my experience reliable and great engines consume oil, especially with performance DFI - namely the last of the N/A 911's (997.2 and 991.1). 1 qt every 1k miles is not unreasonable in the 997.2. I personally think too many people make a big deal of oil consumption.

I certainly does feel like getting a nice used one with 5-10k miles and getting the extended warranty is the way to go.
 

jvandy50

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,276
Location
AR
They didn't replace any until they consumed more than 1qt/500 miles.

If I were looking new, I just wouldn't go ape shit on the ppf and ceramic stuff until I put a few miles on it...or plan a 1000mi road trip home. Those guys seem to be the maddest.
 

DAVESVT2000

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
6,118
Location
Central Mass.
Any used one you might be looking at, take the VIN to a Ford dealer and ask the service department to run an oasis report - this is the vehicle’s service history. This will tell you everything you need to know.

and as you mentioned, a slightly higher mileage one, up to 10,000 miles, with an extended warranty sounds like a good idea
 

jimwood

Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
701
Location
Sacramento
I think the GT350 is just an amazing beast. But at the price point - it's a steal. The funny thing is, is that no one argues it isn't an amazing and fun car to drive. The main issue is the engine. But if they are failing because they have low engine oil then it seems like this would cause failures.

I do not think that you can blame the consumer for not checking the oil constantly.

I have seen some that have 40k miles on Autotrader. That's 40k of HARD miles no doubt.
 
Last edited:

biminiLX

never stock
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
11,396
Location
Toledo, OH
Really no excuse for having a low engine oil warning light on a car like this, or any other in 2020.
That said, also no excuse for owners not checking oil on a high performance ride regularly.
I think the 350 is worth the risk and good reason to grab a warranty if you can.
I’d assume that internally Ford made changes and that the ‘19-20 cars are the best choice.
-J
 

HiTechRedneck

Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
59
Location
Clarksville, AR
Our 17 was bought new in Texas (non R) and I know the previous owner. At just over 6,000 miles it has used no oil between changes. We don't however drive it that much as it's the wife's car and it may go once a week to the bowling alley a few miles away! LOL When I do get to drive it though, I have some fun!! Oasis report shows no engine repairs or swaps.
 
Last edited:

tampasnake

Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
65
Location
Tampa Fl
I picked up a 19R before Christmas. It had 600 miles on it. It now has 500 on it and it hasn't used any oil at all. I think I have checked before I drove it each time.
I seen a bunch with engine replacements too. I was trying to buy one because I thought getting the car cheaper with a new engine is a good deal to me.
 

decipha

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
867
Location
New Orleans, LA
We've had quite a few come through our shop and so far no issues as of yet.

I think the majority of these issues are due to unintentional neglect. My theory is that these cars being what they are typically get ran for short periods of time and are often moved around regularly without ever reaching operating temp. That coupled with sitting for extended periods of time with no use is usually a recipe for increased wear in itself. Then when they are finally driven it seems those having failures aren't really pushing them hard as they we designed for instead they are just using them as a casual weekend cruiser.

In my experiences none of them that actually get used as intended have issues. Its the ones that sit and have ultra low miles (i.e. sitting up for extended periods) that have issues. These cars are intended to be pushed hard and those that drive them and use them as they were designed to be used don't usually have problems.

I will say that these engines really come alive and smooth out with boost. It seems like all of the boosted ones I've tuned actually have better drive-ability and street manners after being boosted as compared to being bone stock.
 

fearthesnake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
1,475
Location
Belton, S.C.
I will start by saying that I am looking to buy a 2019 or 2020 GT350R. However, I have been researching this case for many, many hours. I definitely get that only a small group of failures may seem like a systemic issue with the motor. However, many of the engine failures are happening prior to 5k miles and many have had engines replaced. I do not recall searching for a car and seeing so many engines replaced on CarFaxs. On some occasions, the engines have been replaced twice.

Is there a definitive reason or weakness that can be addressed with the car? The one thing that I have heard is break-n is critical. However, nothing on pinpointing exactly what is causing the issues?
Let me give a different view and this is for anyone who is interested in buying a 350.

First off, I have been researching 350s for well over a year now and test drove a few but have held off buying and decided to keep my '13 a while longer. Just love the Tq and power of the 5.8L still.

I researched all over the Country and looked at hundreds of 350s for sale. Like everyone has stated, most failures were engine related for whatever reason and also Clutch/Transmission issues as well.

If I were going to buy a used 350, I would be hesitant on buying a low mileage car 2-3 years old honestly. Just not enough data to convince me those particular cars may not have issues, not driven enough. Would definitely buy a premium care warranty there for protection.

If you aren't buying new (or 2020 MY), I would buy one guaranteed and a buyback from Ford. There are 3 to 4 Ford Dealers across the Country that specialize in Buyback/Lemon Cars and I would deal with them- no concerns at all:

Orleans Ford - Medina NY
Capitol Ford - Charlotte NC
White Bear Lake Ford - Minneapolis
One dealer in Missouri - name escapes me at the moment.

They are very good with 350s and will ensure the car is practically brand new, with a warranty included. These dealers buy back the 350s from all over the Country and they are completely looked over and replaced where needed. Plus, you can buy the car at the diminished value so you don't over pay for it. These dealers also have the 350R's as well for great deals. If you are planning on keeping and driving the Car for a long time, this is the best route.

Let me give you an example: I worked with the Service Mgr at White Bear Lake Ford on a 17' Avalanche Gray model with 14,000 miles. Car had an issue with the Transmission(Not going in gear) and Oil consumption. The entire Longblock, Transmission, Clutch was replaced, all with 0 miles on it. Car had 4 new Cup2 Michelins all the way around put on. Recaros/Navigation/TP car. It came with a 12 month Free warranty(Standard) but I had negotiated an extended 5 yr/60,000 miles Premium Warranty for an add'l $1,800. Dealer dropped the Price to $40,600 for the Car and $1,800 for the Warranty.

Just throwing this idea out there for anyone in the market currently. There are deals out there in the $40K-$44K range like above on MY 2017/2018. I will say these Dealers get the 350s in/out fast and usually have several to choose from each few months.

Good luck on your 350R search.
 

jpro

Disoriented Poster
Established Member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
5,105
Location
someplace warm
Let me give a different view and this is for anyone who is interested in buying a 350.

First off, I have been researching 350s for well over a year now and test drove a few but have held off buying and decided to keep my '13 a while longer. Just love the Tq and power of the 5.8L still.

I researched all over the Country and looked at hundreds of 350s for sale. Like everyone has stated, most failures were engine related for whatever reason and also Clutch/Transmission issues as well.

If I were going to buy a used 350, I would be hesitant on buying a low mileage car 2-3 years old honestly. Just not enough data to convince me those particular cars may not have issues, not driven enough. Would definitely buy a premium care warranty there for protection.

If you aren't buying new (or 2020 MY), I would buy one guaranteed and a buyback from Ford. There are 3 to 4 Ford Dealers across the Country that specialize in Buyback/Lemon Cars and I would deal with them- no concerns at all:

Orleans Ford - Medina NY
Capitol Ford - Charlotte NC
White Bear Lake Ford - Minneapolis
One dealer in Missouri - name escapes me at the moment.

They are very good with 350s and will ensure the car is practically brand new, with a warranty included. These dealers buy back the 350s from all over the Country and they are completely looked over and replaced where needed. Plus, you can buy the car at the diminished value so you don't over pay for it. These dealers also have the 350R's as well for great deals. If you are planning on keeping and driving the Car for a long time, this is the best route.

Let me give you an example: I worked with the Service Mgr at White Bear Lake Ford on a 17' Avalanche Gray model with 14,000 miles. Car had an issue with the Transmission(Not going in gear) and Oil consumption. The entire Longblock, Transmission, Clutch was replaced, all with 0 miles on it. Car had 4 new Cup2 Michelins all the way around put on. Recaros/Navigation/TP car. It came with a 12 month Free warranty(Standard) but I had negotiated an extended 5 yr/60,000 miles Premium Warranty for an add'l $1,800. Dealer dropped the Price to $40,600 for the Car and $1,800 for the Warranty.

Just throwing this idea out there for anyone in the market currently. There are deals out there in the $40K-$44K range like above on MY 2017/2018. I will say these Dealers get the 350s in/out fast and usually have several to choose from each few months.

Good luck on your 350R search.

Only three things in life are guaranteed:
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. SVTP delivering on everything from great info like this to funnies in the NWS Pics and Vids thread

So...great info and I really appreciate it. Hoping you and some others can give me your perspective on my current search. I am in the market for a 350 and I strongly prefer to buy private party. In Nevada we don't pay sales tax on private party sales (so I'd save around $4k - $5k in taxes on a 350 depending on the price, which is too good of a deal to pass up). I have been hesitant to pull the trigger due to the 350's engine issues and it seems that a 2017 is too old to get a Ford PremiumCare warranty (I went over to their site and typed in VIN's for cars I'm interested in and it won't quote me a price on anything older than a 2018...I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?). I'm hesitant to buy a used 350 because I'm not sure how it was treated by the previous owner ("never tracked, no oil consumption, etc." is hard to prove, they just want you to buy their car). I would have concerns about whether the car was broken in properly and if the previous owner checked the oil level regularly, etc. There is no way to tell and if it is a 2017 and PremiumCare isn't available, I may just end up buying a ticking time bomb. LOL The same can be true for a car at a dealership that they took in as a trade.

So I'm wondering...
1. Is PremiumCare available for cars older than 2018?
2. For the dealerships you mentioned, do they negotiate on these "repaired as new" lemons? There is an R at Capital Ford in Charlotte that is a lemon vehicle like you described and it says in the description that it has a "free Ford factory premium warranty" and "includes remainder of factory warranty." The R is listed at $1k under KBB suggested price, but I'm willing to bet they would go much lower, no? If everything was replaced and they throw in a "free" PremiumCare warranty and do everything you say they do, that is a great deal, no?
3. Curveball question...why are you interested in moving from a 13/14 GT500 to a GT350? There is a 2013 with 10k miles on it in the marketplace that I am peaking at but I want to learn and drive a track car rather than have a torque monster for the strip.

Bonus: We finally got over the hump against Clemson in the Sugar Bowl this year...I'm not usually a "bad winner" because programs like us, Clemson, Bama, etc. win so much that it doesn't make sense, but that win against you guys was really sweet for us! LOL
 

JAJ

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
589
Location
Vancouver, Canada
A couple of comments, based on my history with a 2014 GT500 Track Pack and a 2016 GT350 Track Pack:

1. I used the GT500 as a daily and as a road circuit car. It was great on the track - good grip, balanced, acceleration and braking were stellar. For a nose-heavy S197, it was surprisingly easy to drive fast around corners.
2. I upgraded the electronics in my 2016 GT350 to 2017 stuff, so it's like a 2017 from a daily perspective. For the track, it's easier to drive fast than the GT500, but it's not a lot faster. The GT500 had so much torque that you could leave it in 3rd and just drive, where you have to shift the GT350 to get the same level of performance. The GT350 is faster in the corners than the GT500, but not by a lot, and the torque out of the corners in the GT500 is a great leveler. I did an overlay of data from a local track where I'd turned roughly equal lap times in both cars. My corner-to-corner times were quicker in the GT500 because I didn't need to shift, and I was compensating for the lost time shifting the GT350 by going just a hair faster through the corners.

As for the extended warranty from Ford, I believe it's only available for cars that are still under the 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Mine's extended to 8 years, by the way.
 

fearthesnake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
1,475
Location
Belton, S.C.
Only three things in life are guaranteed:
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. SVTP delivering on everything from great info like this to funnies in the NWS Pics and Vids thread

So...great info and I really appreciate it. Hoping you and some others can give me your perspective on my current search. I am in the market for a 350 and I strongly prefer to buy private party. In Nevada we don't pay sales tax on private party sales (so I'd save around $4k - $5k in taxes on a 350 depending on the price, which is too good of a deal to pass up). I have been hesitant to pull the trigger due to the 350's engine issues and it seems that a 2017 is too old to get a Ford PremiumCare warranty (I went over to their site and typed in VIN's for cars I'm interested in and it won't quote me a price on anything older than a 2018...I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?). I'm hesitant to buy a used 350 because I'm not sure how it was treated by the previous owner ("never tracked, no oil consumption, etc." is hard to prove, they just want you to buy their car). I would have concerns about whether the car was broken in properly and if the previous owner checked the oil level regularly, etc. There is no way to tell and if it is a 2017 and PremiumCare isn't available, I may just end up buying a ticking time bomb. LOL The same can be true for a car at a dealership that they took in as a trade.

So I'm wondering...
1. Is PremiumCare available for cars older than 2018?
2. For the dealerships you mentioned, do they negotiate on these "repaired as new" lemons? There is an R at Capital Ford in Charlotte that is a lemon vehicle like you described and it says in the description that it has a "free Ford factory premium warranty" and "includes remainder of factory warranty." The R is listed at $1k under KBB suggested price, but I'm willing to bet they would go much lower, no? If everything was replaced and they throw in a "free" PremiumCare warranty and do everything you say they do, that is a great deal, no?
3. Curveball question...why are you interested in moving from a 13/14 GT500 to a GT350? There is a 2013 with 10k miles on it in the marketplace that I am peaking at but I want to learn and drive a track car rather than have a torque monster for the strip.

Bonus: We finally got over the hump against Clemson in the Sugar Bowl this year...I'm not usually a "bad winner" because programs like us, Clemson, Bama, etc. win so much that it doesn't make sense, but that win against you guys was really sweet for us! LOL
Hey - Yes, Dealers will absolutely negotiate on the asking price and some will on an extended Premium package as well. I believe Capitol Ford has had that R model for some time now. So there may be some wiggle room to move that Car now.
Stand firm on your Price as you will be the one with a diminished value Car when you buy it. The extended warranty could be used as leverage and maybe the bargaining chip you can use to get the Price and cost of the warranty in your favor.

I decided to keep my 2013, just enjoy it too much and its a rare combination. Plus its paid off now and don't have any issues with it. Was a risk I wasn't ready to take with what I already had in the Garage.

As long as you can get a premium warranty on a low mileage GT350, I think you will be fine.

Buckeyes were definitely better prepared, Coached and ready for the Game this time around and whooped us. I dont think Clemson was prepared and had no answers for the great gameplan Coach Day had in place.

I also think the last 2 years the Semi final game has taken ALOT out of the winning team for the Championship game the following week. Clemson/Ohio St had 2 very physical games against each other while the SEC team had a cake walk each year.

Hopefully we get back to some normalcy this Fall in College Football, its time!

Good luck on the 350 search and keep us posted.
David.
 

KingBlack

I'm more stupid than I post
Established Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
6,236
Location
myrtle beach
I also think the last 2 years the Semi final game has taken ALOT out of the winning team for the Championship game the following week. Clemson/Ohio St had 2 very physical games against each other while the SEC team had a cake walk each year.

David.

good dealer info

and the same can be said about Clemson's ACC schedule
 

jpro

Disoriented Poster
Established Member
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
5,105
Location
someplace warm
A couple of comments, based on my history with a 2014 GT500 Track Pack and a 2016 GT350 Track Pack:

1. I used the GT500 as a daily and as a road circuit car. It was great on the track - good grip, balanced, acceleration and braking were stellar. For a nose-heavy S197, it was surprisingly easy to drive fast around corners.
2. I upgraded the electronics in my 2016 GT350 to 2017 stuff, so it's like a 2017 from a daily perspective. For the track, it's easier to drive fast than the GT500, but it's not a lot faster. The GT500 had so much torque that you could leave it in 3rd and just drive, where you have to shift the GT350 to get the same level of performance. The GT350 is faster in the corners than the GT500, but not by a lot, and the torque out of the corners in the GT500 is a great leveler. I did an overlay of data from a local track where I'd turned roughly equal lap times in both cars. My corner-to-corner times were quicker in the GT500 because I didn't need to shift, and I was compensating for the lost time shifting the GT350 by going just a hair faster through the corners.

As for the extended warranty from Ford, I believe it's only available for cars that are still under the 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Mine's extended to 8 years, by the way.

Thanks. Hmmmmm...which one was more fun to drive on the road circuit? I'd imagine the 350? I'm sure both are fun in different ways. The car I choose will not be a daily, I'll take it out to learn to drive it on road courses...a new hobby, God knows I need one! LOL

Hey - Yes, Dealers will absolutely negotiate on the asking price and some will on an extended Premium package as well. I believe Capitol Ford has had that R model for some time now. So there may be some wiggle room to move that Car now.
Stand firm on your Price as you will be the one with a diminished value Car when you buy it. The extended warranty could be used as leverage and maybe the bargaining chip you can use to get the Price and cost of the warranty in your favor.

I decided to keep my 2013, just enjoy it too much and its a rare combination. Plus its paid off now and don't have any issues with it. Was a risk I wasn't ready to take with what I already had in the Garage.

As long as you can get a premium warranty on a low mileage GT350, I think you will be fine.

Buckeyes were definitely better prepared, Coached and ready for the Game this time around and whooped us. I dont think Clemson was prepared and had no answers for the great gameplan Coach Day had in place.

I also think the last 2 years the Semi final game has taken ALOT out of the winning team for the Championship game the following week. Clemson/Ohio St had 2 very physical games against each other while the SEC team had a cake walk each year.

Hopefully we get back to some normalcy this Fall in College Football, its time!

Good luck on the 350 search and keep us posted.
David.

Thanks, David. Was there a specific sales person at Capital that you dealt with? The R they have isn't quite what I'm looking for...it has front license plate holes and is white with blue stripes (not my preferred combo). I would drastically undercut their price to try to get it but I think I would kinda feel like I"m settling. Nick at Chuck Anderson Ford in Missouri has a non-R 2020 in Twister Orange for sale with 2k miles on it for about the same price. Just don't want to pay sales tax so going with a dealer is so torturous for me in my mind. Its like throwing away $5k because I'm impatient!

I went to the Fiesta Bowl two years ago. Man...that fumble-scoop-score that the dirty SEC refs called back against us still haunts me. LOL
 

JAJ

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
589
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Thanks. Hmmmmm...which one was more fun to drive on the road circuit? I'd imagine the 350? I'm sure both are fun in different ways. The car I choose will not be a daily, I'll take it out to learn to drive it on road courses...a new hobby, God knows I need one! LOL...
If you're just starting out on road courses, I'd go with the GT350. It doesn't need any work done on it to be track-ready - it rolled out of the factory ready - brakes, tires, everything - so you can just focus on driving. The GT500 is a bit more nuanced.

By the way, when it comes to modifications, the best and most cost-effective mod is the "driver mod". Good instruction really helps.
 

fearthesnake

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
1,475
Location
Belton, S.C.
Thanks. Hmmmmm...which one was more fun to drive on the road circuit? I'd imagine the 350? I'm sure both are fun in different ways. The car I choose will not be a daily, I'll take it out to learn to drive it on road courses...a new hobby, God knows I need one! LOL



Thanks, David. Was there a specific sales person at Capital that you dealt with? The R they have isn't quite what I'm looking for...it has front license plate holes and is white with blue stripes (not my preferred combo). I would drastically undercut their price to try to get it but I think I would kinda feel like I"m settling. Nick at Chuck Anderson Ford in Missouri has a non-R 2020 in Twister Orange for sale with 2k miles on it for about the same price. Just don't want to pay sales tax so going with a dealer is so torturous for me in my mind. Its like throwing away $5k because I'm impatient!

I went to the Fiesta Bowl two years ago. Man...that fumble-scoop-score that the dirty SEC refs called back against us still haunts me. LOL

I worked with the Internet Sale Mgr at Capital Ford. TBH, that Twister Orange is probably a better deal and option unless all you are going to do is track the car.

Keep us up to date on what you decide to do as you can't really go wrong with either Car imo. It all depends on what you intend to use the Car for and your intentions (Road vs Track).
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top