Mac or PC

tvguy

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KevinB120 said:
Macs are just like the old beta machines, they actually perform better but held on way to long to proprietary hardware and exonerated themselves from the masses.

The EXACT reasons why Macs don't dominate today's world like the Window's based PC's. However, had Mac's changed their thinking way back when, I imagine we'd see MANY more security breaches for Mac's today. For the most part, either you love one or the other. It's nice to see people who use both here and understand their weaknesses and strengths. I personally own both and wouldn't have it any other way. Although I know financially that's not always possible.
pacotaco
 

03DOHC

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I am in at least 3-4 customer computers per day. There is 1 mac for every 100 PC's. Mac's have their place but there is more software available for PC's than for Mac's. Don't believe anyone who says Mac's don't have problems because they do. That doesn't imply that PC's are trouble free but I'll take a PC any day of the year.
 

Taylor04

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03gtcoupe said:
never had a virus with my mac

Same Here.

I don't think you can go wrong either way, but I believe the Mac's require less upkeep and will simply run more efficiently for longer, again my personal prefference. I almost prefer using Apple just because not alot of people use it, just being different I guess. They also look way cooler.. :coolman:
 

NyteByte

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mmars said:
Wow... That's just amazing. You have absolutly no idea what you are truely talking about.

I'll admit, I’m not an expert on the new OS 10, nor do I care to be. However, I have worked with OS 8 and 9 for years and they both sucked. OS 9's architecture is very similar to Windows 95. It has no protected memory, no true pre-emptive multitasking, and no real virtual memory support. This is something Windows has had for over 10 years (since 1994) with the first version of Windows NT. After all these years, Apple has just figured out how to implement these features in OS 10.

I have played with OS 10's security features a bit and they are not even close to being as sophisticated as Windows. Yes OS 10 is built around a UNIX foundation (which in itself is a 40+ year old architecture), but it's very basic. In OS 10, Apple finally added basic security with user accounts and simple file attributes.

In contrast, Windows security is very comprehensive, granular, and goes far beyond OS 10 or UNIX. Windows security was designed for large enterprises and government organizations and has a government C2-level security certification.

I can only touch on some of the security features Windows has, since that alone would be a huge topic:
- A public key infrastructure
- Kerberos authentication
- Object based access control
- Group policies (including software distribution)
- Local security policies
- Auditing
- Security logging
- Granular object security
- Firewall
- Centralized security management

When it comes to Windows, all the media hype is focused on viruses and spyware. As people have already pointed out, Microsoft is a MUCH larger target than Apple and that’s why you see more attacks on Windows than Apple OS’s. Because of this, to think OS 10 is somehow more secure is naïve. The first computer viruses I ever saw were on a first generation Mac. I personally have never gotten a virus or received any spyware on any of my Windows machines at home or at work, nor has anyone else in our office. That’s because our Windows network is run properly and it’s secure. People that I’ve seen get infections was almost always due to carelessness, such as not having a virus scanner, or blindly clicking “yes” to those Web browser pop-ups without reading them carefully.

Also, there is a LOT more to “good networking” than the ability to change the IP address on the fly. When you walk into a large corporation’s data center, you’ll see racks of servers running Windows, not Mac OS 10. Windows has become the backbone of corporate IT.

Apple will always remain in the niche markets, assuming they even continue to survive.
 

FFKnuckles

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There's no reason to switch to a mac unless you're a graphic design artist or going to be using your computer for any multimedia type of work. Other than that you'll be spending 2-3 times more for a machine that's not working to it's full potential. Their software is rediculiously expense and their periphials are a little much.

The mac has limited games to play if that's your thing also...but god damn are those things are sweet =)
 

mastwolf

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Im getting ready to get a new G5.....

But I have built my own computers for years, and am now on a dual cpu AMD 64bit system, but does that run Final Cut Pro HD? Nope, so I need a mac for that.


Macs are good if your like saying you have a mac, or You need software that only comes for the mac i.e Final Cut Pro HD (made by apple).


This could go on and on till the break of dawn, but i guess it all comes down to what you like, and if what you do, you can do on each one.


Chris
 

ampstang

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Go out and buy a Mac. I'm still using my iBook that I bought early in 2000. I've never had a problem with it. I've only made upgrades to it. I'm about to buy a G5 though. All my friends have Windows computers and ALL of them have gotten numerous viruses. I use a Windows computer at work and it feels like a HUGE downgrade. I've had to have the computer techs come and remove crap that was added to my computer by pop-ups numerous times, and this is with the latest pop-up blocker. I find Windows computers to be harder to use also. It seems like for every 5 steps I take to do something in the Windows computer, there is only one step I need to do for the MAC.

Again, my MAC is ancient and haven't had a single problem with it yet in the 5 years I've used it.
 

BlueOvalAvenger

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As some people have already said...obviously PC is more common. One way to think about it is imagine PC as being an F-150 that you can drive on any road you want and imagine MAC as being a Ferrari that you can only drive on 15% of the roads. Both computers will do whatever you want them to, but MAC does perform better. The only problem with MAC is software compatibility. That issue is improving, but its no where near the level that PC is at. EVERYTHING is made for PC. If you are doing video editing, CAD, or any other image editing, MAC is the best. If you are looking for an everyday computer that you get online, check email, surf the web, play games or anything like that you are better off getting a PC, because of the software available.

As far as viruses and things like that, yes..PC does get them more than MAC, but thats because most software isnt compatible with MAC. If you were going to go through the trouble of writing a virus would you want to spend all that time doing it for a computer that 1 out of 10 people use or would you write it for a computer that 9 out of 10 people use? I personally use a PC and I dont have any problems with getting viruses. Stay away from the porn and you shouldn't either. Internet Explorer is what is targeted by viruses and spyware, all you have to do is use something not as popular..such as Mozilla Firefox and you wont have that problem.

In the end you just have to decide what is right for you. If you need the extra power for specialty things such as video and image editing, go with the MAC. If you are looking for an everyday computer go with the PC. Whatever you get will be able to do anything you want it to do, it just depends on you and your abilities with computers. Switching to a MAC from PC will require a learning period, you will have to "convert" to MAC's OS and get use to it. Not to mention the price difference. Macs are usually a little more expensive. Hope that helped some.
 

kneedragger

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NyteByte said:
I'll admit, I’m not an expert on the new OS 10, nor do I care to be. However, I have worked with OS 8 and 9 for years and they both sucked. OS 9's architecture is very similar to Windows 95. It has no protected memory, no true pre-emptive multitasking, and no real virtual memory support. This is something Windows has had for over 10 years (since 1994) with the first version of Windows NT. After all these years, Apple has just figured out how to implement these features in OS 10.

I have played with OS 10's security features a bit and they are not even close to being as sophisticated as Windows. Yes OS 10 is built around a UNIX foundation (which in itself is a 40+ year old architecture), but it's very basic. In OS 10, Apple finally added basic security with user accounts and simple file attributes.

In contrast, Windows security is very comprehensive, granular, and goes far beyond OS 10 or UNIX. Windows security was designed for large enterprises and government organizations and has a government C2-level security certification.

I can only touch on some of the security features Windows has, since that alone would be a huge topic:
- A public key infrastructure
- Kerberos authentication
- Object based access control
- Group policies (including software distribution)
- Local security policies
- Auditing
- Security logging
- Granular object security
- Firewall
- Centralized security management

When it comes to Windows, all the media hype is focused on viruses and spyware. As people have already pointed out, Microsoft is a MUCH larger target than Apple and that’s why you see more attacks on Windows than Apple OS’s. Because of this, to think OS 10 is somehow more secure is naïve. The first computer viruses I ever saw were on a first generation Mac. I personally have never gotten a virus or received any spyware on any of my Windows machines at home or at work, nor has anyone else in our office. That’s because our Windows network is run properly and it’s secure. People that I’ve seen get infections was almost always due to carelessness, such as not having a virus scanner, or blindly clicking “yes” to those Web browser pop-ups without reading them carefully.

Also, there is a LOT more to “good networking” than the ability to change the IP address on the fly. When you walk into a large corporation’s data center, you’ll see racks of servers running Windows, not Mac OS 10. Windows has become the backbone of corporate IT.

Apple will always remain in the niche markets, assuming they even continue to survive.


Uh, genius.....
insert foot in mouth now

I also hate to burst your bubble, but mission critical apps for large companies are generally not run on Windows OS boxes. I worked for BankOne/JPMC and Discover Card and the apps required by the SEC to have HA and DR time requirements are ALL on UNIX platforms.

Security on Windows is a joke. You are talking about granular security functions and IOS implements a more granular security than windows. I don't hate Windows. As a matter of fact, I work with at least 4 different OSs every day. I just am not an OS biggot and I educate myself before making comments.

As for you list of features, OSX has all of those too.

Mac has had VM support (RAMdisk) for years.

Macs do not page as much to memory, since RISC architecture can run multiple task better than PC's CISC architecture can.

As far as basic security, you're obviously blind. OSX is UNIX. BSD UNIX. The most secure OS period. Judged by security experts.

Stop slagging on something you know NOTHING about.
 
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NyteByte

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kneedragger said:
I also hate to burst your bubble, but mission critical apps for large companies are generally not run on Windows OS boxes.

I guess you've never been to any large corporations who are running modern applications on the back-end (NOT old legacy apps still running on UNIX).

I do consulting for many large banks and large associations. One of them has a 2.6 billion record database (yes "billion") that is running on Windows 2003 and Microsoft SQL Server 2000 in a clustered environment on two 8-way SMP machines with 24 Gb of RAM each. I helped convert them away from UNIX to Windows and things run MUCH better. They also run a HUGE Web site on Windows running IIS. They never have any problems.

If you don't consider those mission critical applications, then you need to continue to "educate yourself" as you claim to do. If you walked into those IT departments and tried to preach the Mac to them, you'd be laughed right out the door.

kneedragger said:
Security on Windows is a joke. You are talking about granular security functions and IOS implements a more granular security than windows.

I've worked with OSX enough to know its security features are just very basic. They do the job, but they don't even come close to Windows. Also, you provided a link to some guys single paragraph Weblog which claims OSX is the most secure OS. If you consider that "proof", you've got to be joking. An operating system's security features go far beyond the ability to deal with "overt digital attacks". That's just a small part of "security". Your focus is WAY too narrow.

The fact is that OSX doesn't even come close to Windows with its security features. Most of those features don't even exist on the Mac.

I have a guy who works for me who is a "Mac expert" (since we have two Macs to support). He has almost 8 years of experience working with Macs, so I figured he'd be a good resource. I asked him if the OSX has anything like Windows Group Policies and Active Directory and he said "no way". I even looked through some of his books that covered OSX security and they confirmed this fact.

kneedragger said:
As for you list of features, OSX has all of those too.

If you're talking about basic OS features such as memory protection and pre-emptive multitasking, then yes, the Mac finally now has those features with OSX. But my point was that Windows had those same features for almost 10 years before OSX even existed.

kneedragger said:
Macs do not page as much to memory, since RISC architecture can run multiple task better than PC's CISC architecture can.

That statement doesn't even make sense. The ability of an OS to manage virtual memory has nothing to do with CPU architecture.

When it comes to these Mac vs PC arguments, one thing I've learned is that it's totally pointless to even have the discussion. Mac enthusiasts will ALWAYS try to make themselves (and everyone else) believe that Apple is king and the Mac is some kind of end-all, god like computing platform. It’s akin to ricers believing their Civics are somehow superior to Cobras and Vettes while claiming domestic owners "know nothing" about the topic.

In reality, Mac's are decent, but they are way overpriced, over hyped, niche market machines.
 
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Fast Willy

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I would say pc. If you want an all around good computer go with a pc. If you want a computer that has like music editing and video making and stuff like that go with a mac. If you want an amazing gaming puter then go with alien wear they make the best gaming puters.
 

DBK

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kneedragger said:
You really have no clue about system architecture. OSX is based on BSD UNIX and is extremely stable.

As far as security, please explain how Windows is more secure? How many minutes has it been since the last Windows security patch? OSX has garnered much praise for it's system security. I use PCs, Macs and many other OSs daily and when our our Outlook gets infected with a virus and it spreads to all of the machines in the builiding, we never have to touch the Macs or UNIX servers why? They dont get infected. there have been 2 major viruses on the Mac, Hong Kong and Autostart. Both caused little damage.


Learn about something before you rip on it. Someone also mentioned RISC versus CISC and multitasks much better.

werd. :read:
 

DBK

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The only question I would ask myself before buying a new machine would be: do I play games? Answer: no. Result: I buy another Mac.

I use 3 PC's from 1.6-2.4ghz, and am frequently playing Mr. Fix it with my sister's 1.8ghz 1gb Pentium notebook. I also have a Powerbook.

Everything I do is better on the Mac. People tout this bullshit line that "if you want to have a job blar blar" you need a PC. Ah, no. I use Excel and Word everyday, and the performance is superior on my technically slow ass Powerbook than it is on the baddest PC we have. I prefer using Safari to surf the internet to IE. Spyware, viruses, are a non issue. I'm running at least 5 applications at all times, and it virtually never even slows, let alone kicks the bucket. All the stuff normal humans do(i.e word processing, email, internet, video, audio, photos) is just as good and better. If you need some very specific software, of course it can't compete because it's not the jack of all trades an XP machine is.

I just installed a wireless printer/fax/copy and put it up for share on our wireless network. Not one, but TWO, of the PC's experienced catastrophic failures during the installation process. When I finally did get them running, the vastly technically superior PC's took roughly 40 minutes to run the install disk and setup. I loaded the Mac disc, and the powerbook was up and running in under ten minutes. I never have to go searching for drivers or patches blah. It just works, to paraphrase the hippies at Mac advertising.

It's not my job to put tape on my glasses and say "well the architecture of the rhombus module's knutsen flabia is laughable on a mac compared to an overclocked PC running a cached tron valve." I don't give a ****. I want whatever works and the Mac has proved to be not only usable, but gasp, actually pleasing to work with. I never say that about my PC.

When my PC finally bites the dust, which it will, I will certainly be buying another Mac.
 

kneedragger

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NyteByte said:
I guess you've never been to any large corporations who are running modern applications on the back-end (NOT old legacy apps still running on UNIX).

I do consulting for many large banks and large associations. One of them has a 2.6 billion record database (yes "billion") that is running on Windows 2003 and Microsoft SQL Server 2000 in a clustered environment on two 8-way SMP machines with 24 Gb of RAM each. I helped convert them away from UNIX to Windows and things run MUCH better. They also run a HUGE Web site on Windows running IIS. They never have any problems.

If you don't consider those mission critical applications, then you need to continue to "educate yourself" as you claim to do. If you walked into those IT departments and tried to preach the Mac to them, you'd be laughed right out the door.

Well if you consider JPMC and Discover Card small financial institutions, then I haven't been to a large one. I worked at JPMC for the merger, DR and datacenter relocation and server remediation. Guess what? They only use Wintel architecture on non-mission critical servers. Solaris, HP-UX, AIX and now Red Hat.

Windows are used as the majority of servers only because they are CHEAP, not secure.

OSX servers, quite frankly, are a load faster and more efficient than comparably priced Windows boxes. Look it up, You're the uber-consultant.

Discover Card??? AIX all over the place. Not on legacy apps.

For resistance to hacking and security, you can't beat UNIX. Keep telling yourself windows is the end all. Then click you heels together and say "There's no place like sucking Bill Gates' teat"

BTW, I consult for a huge consulting firm and I do BCP for only Fortune 1000 corps. I know nothing though. My company list 76% of the Fortune 1000 as clients.

We use all OS's and for security purposes, we often use UNIX. DOD uses SGI servers for info they don't want to get out. When they got hacked, care to guess which OS was on that box?

I don't hate Windows and Mac's have their faults, they are not what you make them out to be though.
 

NyteByte

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kneedragger said:
Well if you consider JPMC and Discover Card small financial institutions, then I haven't been to a large one. I worked at JPMC for the merger, DR and datacenter relocation and server remediation. Guess what? They only use Wintel architecture on non-mission critical servers. Solaris, HP-UX, AIX and now Red Hat.

Windows are used as the majority of servers only because they are CHEAP, not secure.

OSX servers, quite frankly, are a load faster and more efficient than comparably priced Windows boxes. Look it up, You're the uber-consultant.

Discover Card??? AIX all over the place. Not on legacy apps.

For resistance to hacking and security, you can't beat UNIX. Keep telling yourself windows is the end all. Then click you heels together and say "There's no place like sucking Bill Gates' teat"

BTW, I consult for a huge consulting firm and I do BCP for only Fortune 1000 corps. I know nothing though. My company list 76% of the Fortune 1000 as clients.

We use all OS's and for security purposes, we often use UNIX. DOD uses SGI servers for info they don't want to get out. When they got hacked, care to guess which OS was on that box?

I don't hate Windows and Mac's have their faults, they are not what you make them out to be though.

Windows is not the crap you make it out to be either. And UNIX? Please.. I've converted countless numbers of companies OFF of UNIX to Windows. UNIX is not the greatest thing that it used to be years ago.

Sounds like you think YOU are the uber-consultant. What's funny is after reading most of the stuff you posted, it's clear that YOU really don't know too much.

Also, with all the cut downs that you've dished out, it's impossible to take you seriously. I think I've lost track of how many times you've told me that I'm full of shit, I have no clue, and to go look shit up. I'm sorry if I stepped on your "know it all" Macintosh ego, but that's no way to react.

All these Mac vs PC arguments always end up the same, with the Mac evangelists getting all pissy.
 

kneedragger

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NyteByte said:
Sounds like you think YOU are the uber-consultant. What's funny is after reading most of the stuff you posted, it's clear that YOU really don't know too much.


All these Mac vs PC arguments always end up the same, with the Mac evangelists getting all pissy.
Who brought up their consulting background first? Mr big financial institution. Oh, and the fact that I posted a link to one of the largest and most trusted security organizations in the world really doesn't back up my arguement.

Keep looking down on people, you boob. I just am not an OS biggot.

Keep converting people to high risk environs, it will be more money for me when I swoop in and clean up your mess.

BTW, Point out where I posted an incorrect comment. I can post about 20 things you f'ed up.

I'm in Chicago, your more than welcome to compare resumes.


One more thing..

here is another inaccuracy you've been quoting, captain multi-task.
 
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mmars

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NyteByte said:
I do consulting for many large banks and large associations. One of them has a 2.6 billion record database (yes "billion") that is running on Windows 2003 and Microsoft SQL Server 2000 in a clustered environment on two 8-way SMP machines with 24 Gb of RAM each. I helped convert them away from UNIX to Windows and things run MUCH better. They also run a HUGE Web site on Windows running IIS. They never have any problems.

Ha! Good choice there. IIS, the worlds most insecure Webserver.

C2 Certification, that is a joke. It's no better than being g14 classified...
 

Codes

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This was discussed a long time ago, this dude...I think his name was like xillix or something new his shit and offered some really good insight. I dont know where he went, try searching for the thread. It will save this one from going on and on like the last one did.
 

mmars

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Insert foot into mouth again!


Microsoft Corp. warned on Tuesday of five new "critical"-rated security flaws in its Windows, Internet Explorer, Word and Messenger software programs that could allow attackers to take control of a personal computer.

The software maker issued software patches to fix the problems as part of its monthly security bulletin, which included three other security warnings, rated at the second-highest level of "important."

(MSNBC is a Microsoft-NBC joint venture.)

Computer security experts urged users to download and install the patches, available at www.microsoft.com/security.

"Anything that's rated as a critical has the risk of someone being able to take over that machine completely," said Michael Sutton, Director at iDEFENSE Labs, the computer security company that worked with Microsoft to uncover three of the new vulnerabilities.

In addition to the vulnerabilities affecting Windows, Internet Explorer, Word and Messenger, Microsoft also issued a warning about a flaw affecting its Exchange Server software, used on networked computers to manage and store e-mail traffic.

Hackers could exploit the flaws to take control of a computer, allowing them to steal or delete information and also use infected computers as a base to launch further attacks.

Microsoft has been working for the last three years to improve the security and reliability of its software under its Trustworthy Computing initiative, as more and more malicious software targets weaknesses in Windows and other Microsoft software.
Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
 

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