Need brake advice from those who track their cobra

[BTSMUSTANG]

First off.....yes I have used the search function and have done a lot of research about my issue

Heres the deal, Ive been running 2000 Cobra R brembos on my 99 cobra, I track the car heavily in northern california. The last track day at thunderhill, temps around 90 degrees, I over heated my brakes by the 5th session. This is becoming a reoccurring problem which is way worse in the summer months and I need to find a solution.

My question, which route should I take to move above the 00r brembos? I really want 14" brakes with floating rotors but can't afford to payout the high dollar amount for a top of the line kit. I know FTBR sells a great 14" kit with F50 calipers which I have been eyeing, vintage-venom is out of buisness......other then the wilwood 14" kit I don't see any other option.

Do you think a gran turismo 13" kit with a brake cooling duct would hold up to the hot northern CA summer track days or would a 14" kit like FTBR be a better option?



So which one is it? FTBR 14" kit, Wilwood 6r Superlite 14" kit or a Brembo GT 13" kit with a brake cooling kit?

Looking for answers from guys who track their car, I do not car about looks, I don't need suggestions on tire options, I just want a setup that will not give me issues after multiple heavy track sessions.

Thank you!

 

[SlowSVT]

My understanding is guys who tracked their Cobra's and running the stock 13" Brembo discs would pitch them in the dumpster by the end of the day and would get another set for the following week. They were fairly cheap at $75 a pop at some outlets and were for the guys who wanted to toss their car around the track for the day and have fun. If that's your plan then you can "get by" with the 13" discs but depending on a track they will be marginal.

Brakes take a beating on a race track but if you want to keep the cost down I would look to adapt a pair of 14" S197 OEM style discs to the front and 13" discs in the back. That way you can go to the local auto parts store and buy replacement discs all around for about the same price as a single Wilwood disc. The larger disc in the rear is where you can get some real gain in brake mass and will take-up some of the slack should the fronts start to fade. It's a poke in the eye to beat someone around the track in a car wearing Pep Boy's brake disc. The only problem with the fat rears is your likely to lose your parking brake which is a deal killer for me in a car used extensively on the street.

The Cobra R calipers are nice but seemed a bit on the small side if I remember correctly. I have Baer 6R's which are a little bigger but I've seen a few Brembo calipers the size of a cat. For road racing: bigger is better which will handle the heat and abuse better. If this was me and I wanted maximum brake at minimum dollar I would take my time and source used 4 or 6 pot calipers and make adapters to fit the rotors. You could build a brake system equivalent to one costing 4X as much.

Whatever you do brake ducts will be mandatory

 

[Svtmustang01]

Full tilt boogie racing sells one heck of a kit. Bruce is a great guy, very knowledgable, and sells everything above top of the line. Slowsvt mentions building adapters for a 4 por or 6 pot caliper but unless someone comes out with one for sale I would advise against it. Im in the middle of it right now and its just a pain. Vintage venoms kit is easy to replicate and ive done it. I just dont like the idea of 24mm spacer behind the rotor.

 

[BTSMUSTANG]

Thanks for the info guys, I have been toying with the idea of finding a large set of 4 or 6 pot brembos that are radial mounted and then creating a custom adaptor so it connects up to the spindles. I do a lot of mechanical engineering as a career and have the tools at my disposal, 3D modeling plus machine shop. I also like the idea of using a 14" rotor that is readily available at a local parts store.

Svtmustang01, what issues are you facing with making a custom adaptor? What kind of calipers are you using? From my research Id imagine it would be a lot easier to design and build a custom adaptor for radial mounted calipers. Ive been eyeing a used set of radial mounted monobloc calipers on ebay. http://www.fullytorquedracing.com is developing an adaptor kit to mount GT500 calipers to sn95, similar to the vintage-venom kit.

 

[SlowSVT]

I don't think it much matters regarding the difficulty fabbing a set of adapters regardless whether the calipers are radial or axial mount. I'm a mechanical engineer as well and use SolidWorks on a daily basis. From my perspective getting accurate measurements is the most difficult aspect making caliper mounts. Once you have those 2 or 3 critical locating dimensions everything else is pretty straight forward.

I'm in the process of adapting 93 Cobra R rear calipers to the IRS. It's 1 1/2 lbs lighter, has a fatter piston, longer pads, accepts a 1" thick disc and plan on having it rub a 12 x .88 Wilwood disc.

I had the cast iron mounting ears welded-up extending them out to accept the 12" diameter Wilwood discs (the disc shown in the picture above replaces the Terminator disc and are slightly smaller).

 

[BTSMUSTANG]

Nice, yeah I've used solidworks in the past and now NX in my current position, figured I will create a few rough first concepts and 3D print them for fitment, and then send them out and have some steel parts made. The one aspect that I am unsure of is the offset between the caliper and rotor, I figure either caliper, radial mount or axial, you can design the offset into the adaptor. This will be the first custom part on my cobra, and when it comes to brakes its something I want to make sure its 100% reliable, which it will when its said and done. After doing a lot of research, I think Im gonna order some 14" 2013 GT500 calipers and rotors from Steve at Tousley Ford and make my own adaptor. That way I keep the costs down and can have an easily obtainable replacement rotors and pads, thanks for the tips and guidance on making custom adaptors SlowSVT!

I don't think it much matters regarding the difficulty fabbing a set of adapters regardless whether the calipers are radial or axial mount. I'm a mechanical engineer as well and use SolidWorks on a daily basis. From my perspective getting accurate measurements is the most difficult aspect making caliper mounts. Once you have those 2 or 3 critical locating dimensions everything else is pretty straight forward.

I'm in the process of adapting 93 Cobra R rear calipers to the IRS. It's 1 1/2 lbs lighter, has a fatter piston, longer pads, accepts a 1" thick disc and plan on having it rub a 12 x .88 Wilwood disc.

I had the cast iron mounting ears welded-up extending them out to accept the 12" diameter Wilwood discs (the disc shown in the picture above replaces the Terminator disc and are slightly smaller).

 

[SlowSVT]

Depending on the spacing of the caliper the adapter made from steel may have a thick cross section which might be a bit overkill and heavy. The adapters for my Baer calipers are aluminum if I remember correctly (I double check and confirm) most likely 6061-T6.

This guy has the right idea but I think 15" rotors on 18" hoops is a bridge too far.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1075892-15-quot-6-piston-brembos-build-thread

The 3D printed design verification model is a good idea. Best to leave more material then needed where possible and fine tune the geometry facing-off the mounting points to center the caliper on the rotor. Use a generous radius where possible and avoid sharp edges on your adapters to minimize stress risers. Do some research and surf the web for photos and see what the aftermarket is doing with regard to adapters and models yours after theirs. Lots of info can be gleaned just looking at pictures (Brembo and Wilwood is a good place to start).

 

[Svtmustang01]

Depending on the spacing of the caliper the adapter made from steel may have a thick cross section which might be a bit overkill and heavy. The adapters for my Baer calipers are aluminum if I remember correctly (I double check and confirm) most likely 6061-T6.

This guy has the right idea but I think 15" rotors on 17" hoops is a bridge too far.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1075892-15-quot-6-piston-brembos-build-thread

The 3D printed design verification model is a good idea. Best to leave more material then needed where possible and fine tune the geometry facing-off the mounting points to center the caliper on the rotor. Use a generous radius where possible and avoid sharp edges on your adapters to minimize stress risers. Do some research and surf the web for photos and see what the aftermarket is doing with regard to adapters and models yours after theirs. Lots of info can be gleaned just looking at pictures (Brembo and Wilwood is a good place to start).

They are going under 18" wheels. It would be literally impossible in 17s lol the top of the caliper to the center of the hub is 445mm ~ 17.4 inches.
Regarding the concept of it being easy to make adapters is generally true. Sadly gt500 caliper want to contact the spindle if you want to try and mount it flush with the original mounting positions. This is forcing me to clock the caliper to the minimum amount of contact and then machine the caliper. There is the way vintage venom did it but it requires a large rotor spacer at a whopping 24mm. There is no best way really. Both ways have trade offs.

 

[Bingo13]

I have run all the big brake kits on both of my '03's, only one worth spending money for is the FTBR 14" kit, cooling ducts and the matching SS lines.

 

[BTSMUSTANG]

Depending on the spacing of the caliper the adapter made from steel may have a thick cross section which might be a bit overkill and heavy. The adapters for my Baer calipers are aluminum if I remember correctly (I double check and confirm) most likely 6061-T6.

This guy has the right idea but I think 15" rotors on 17" hoops is a bridge too far.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1075892-15-quot-6-piston-brembos-build-thread

The 3D printed design verification model is a good idea. Best to leave more material then needed where possible and fine tune the geometry facing-off the mounting points to center the caliper on the rotor. Use a generous radius where possible and avoid sharp edges on your adapters to minimize stress risers. Do some research and surf the web for photos and see what the aftermarket is doing with regard to adapters and models yours after theirs. Lots of info can be gleaned just looking at pictures (Brembo and Wilwood is a good place to start).

Yeah I guess you are right, a well designed bracket out of aluminum would work just as a steel bracket. It seems like there are a mix of current brackets that are aluminum and some that are steel in a lot of the big brake kits on the market.

I was looking at Full Tilt boogies kit and does look solid, Id rather not spend 2600, even though compared to other kits thats a great deal. Also me being someone who loves to build things, thinking of designing my own bracket gets me excited.

 

[SlowSVT]

Yeah I guess you are right, a well designed bracket out of aluminum would work just as a steel bracket. It seems like there are a mix of current brackets that are aluminum and some that are steel in a lot of the big brake kits on the market.

I was looking at Full Tilt boogies kit and does look solid, Id rather not spend 2600, even though compared to other kits thats a great deal. Also me being someone who loves to build things, thinking of designing my own bracket gets me excited.

If the brackets end-up with a thin cross section than steel would be a better choice (4130 or better no 1020 or lower). If the cross section is fat "aluminum"