New design Barton shifter bracket..Wow!

[scott_0]

I'll be ordering one along with a shifter as soon as its available

the new Barton bracket is available now, last I spoke with Dave via PM on another board they had plenty of brackets and shifters in stock, so youll get it within 2-5 days tops :rockon: cant beat beautifully crafted American made parts that doesnt take more than a month to receive :sleeping:

 

[150xlt]

You are absolutley correct, the mgw unit is probably well worth the money but my problem is with how far back ordered they are. When I buy something I really dont want to wait to long for it. Month is probably my limit.

My thoughts exactly I been eying shifters but the whole month wait thing kills the MGW for me. If i could order a MGW and have it in a week id order it today. Ill probably order a Barton combo this afternoon.

 

[scott_0]

its my opinion that mgw is shooting themselves in the foot with the 1-2 month wait for their shifter, while its a nicely designed piece, is it really that far ahead of the Barton unit? I mean yes they correct a few of the little issues with the stock shifter box, but I just dont think they are that far ahead that it warrants a possible 2 month wait. think about that, you order a nice new $400 shifter today and its possible you wont receive it until mid July! sure its pretty, well designed, well engineered, but a possible two month wait?..........I dont think so! Ill call Barton up and have a beautiful American made piece in 2 days. mgw has their dedicated followers that feel its the best shifter in the world and its worth the wait, theres also guys that are comfortable with 5 and 10 year builds, I aint that guy, I wanna enjoy my car now and imo the Barton is a hell of a unit that you can have quickly and its quality.

 

[MGW]

i hear you guys,

but a few points...

i wont make excuses for the lead time which is about 4 weeks not 2 months but yes in todays gotta have it now market thats a real deal breaker. but i purposely do not rush on these things because it IS a hell of a lot of money for a shifter and i damn sure want to make sure EVERY shifter that leaves my shop is right.

also i am constantly tweaking little things along the way and making it better and better so sometimes the wait is well worth it.

another thing that someone just posted... ok so company comes out with a rear bracket and has PLENTY in stock and ready to ship . you rush out and buy it and think its great. then 2 months later they come out with a NEW bracket design that is the BEST thing out there. where does that leave you??

i spent my time on this thing so that i dont have to come out with a whole different design later and you guys that bought the first rushed ones to market feel like idiots for buying the OLD design. just my opinion.

oh and fyi i AM going to be caught up on production end of may. we made 300 units this go around so when they start shipping next week on the next batch of 100 we will actually have STOCK for the first time.



regards
george

 

[scott_0]

another thing that someone just posted... ok so company comes out with a rear bracket and has PLENTY in stock and ready to ship . you rush out and buy it and think its great. then 2 months later they come out with a NEW bracket design that is the BEST thing out there. where does that leave you??

that was me, no need to worry about me, I got taken care of pretty well by Dave over at Barton. I admit I bought a Barton a month after I bought my car last May, best feeling shifter I had ever wrapped my hand around, never once missed a shift! but one thing that irked me was it sort of made a noise at certain low rpm's under load, to me that was unacceptable, I took the shifter out and sold it but I kept the Barton bracket, well lol guess what? the stock shifter makes the same annoying sound from time to time :rolling: turns out its the more from the stiffer bracket than anything else (doh!) Dave took care of me thats all I need to say.

 

[99cobraUgotbit]

that was me, no need to worry about me, I got taken care of pretty well by Dave over at Barton. I admit I bought a Barton a month after I bought my car last May, best feeling shifter I had ever wrapped my hand around, never once missed a shift! but one thing that irked me was it sort of made a noise at certain low rpm's under load, to me that was unacceptable, I took the shifter out and sold it but I kept the Barton bracket, well lol guess what? the stock shifter makes the same annoying sound from time to time :rolling: turns out its the more from the stiffer bracket than anything else (doh!) Dave took care of me thats all I need to say.

If you would have gotten the MGW in the first place, you wouldn't have had to go through all that trouble. But since you and Dave have such a great relationship makes it worth it in the end I'm assuming. Have fun adding and removing parts here and there while I install my MGW ONCE!!!!

 

[dumbstixlars]

I have to say I've been very happy with MGW so far. I just got my shifter for my GT last week and I look forward to getting it in the car and feeling the difference.

I can say this. I have one of George's shifters on my TKO-600 in my LX. For those that don't know the TKO shifters do not come with shift stops due to warranty concerns with Tremec. However, I think I bent one of my shift stops inside my TKO already and talked to George about it. He made a top plate for me that has the holes threaded for external shift stops. He made this plate, and shipped it to me at no cost to me more six months after I bought the shifter from him. I don't know about every one's standards for customer service, but that is pretty damn good in my book.

 

[scott_0]

If you would have gotten the MGW in the first place, you wouldn't have had to go through all that trouble. But since you and Dave have such a great relationship makes it worth it in the end I'm assuming. Have fun adding and removing parts here and there while I install my MGW ONCE!!!!

lol I have no regrets, had i actually wanted the mgw I would have ordered one and waited, I personally think its a bit overhyped but as long as your happy with it. the thing is most folks wont admit that a purchase they made was the wrong purchase, instead they defend it until the end, while you seemingly do not fall into that category, Im sure there are some mgw owners out there that DO fall into this category. see I on the other hand had a Barton, mistakenly got rid of it and now Im getting another. so contrary to what you believe I personally wouldnt choose an mgw if they were stocked and ready to ship today, but thats just me........

 

[AluminatorSnake]

i hear you guys,

but a few points...

i wont make excuses for the lead time which is about 4 weeks not 2 months but yes in todays gotta have it now market thats a real deal breaker. but i purposely do not rush on these things because it IS a hell of a lot of money for a shifter and i damn sure want to make sure EVERY shifter that leaves my shop is right.

also i am constantly tweaking little things along the way and making it better and better so sometimes the wait is well worth it.
another thing that someone just posted... ok so company comes out with a rear bracket and has PLENTY in stock and ready to ship . you rush out and buy it and think its great. then 2 months later they come out with a NEW bracket design that is the BEST thing out there. where does that leave you??

i spent my time on this thing so that i dont have to come out with a whole different design later and you guys that bought the first rushed ones to market feel like idiots for buying the OLD design. just my opinion.
oh and fyi i AM going to be caught up on production end of may. we made 300 units this go around so when they start shipping next week on the next batch of 100 we will actually have STOCK for the first time.



regards
george

To me those two comments contradict each other. That means there good be 2,3,4,5 design slight changes from when a customer could have ordered his a few months ago and when jo schmoe just got his "newest version.

I dont have a 5.0 (i do have your kit for my t45) and my origional statement was opinion based, but that somehow stirred you up enough to go off on a rant putting another product down by saying how good yours is.

Just because they function the same doesnt mean that they are the exact same like you say. They clearly dont even function the same, they reduce throw 40% while you reduce throw by 25%, to achieve that there has to be some slight mechanical differences. There are easily visible difference in the two products. And your rant, has been a turn off to your product, for myself and a few others.

I agree with one of the above posters, the shifter needs to be mounted soley to the trans somehow, and not to the car. Just like the sn-95 cars. To me it clearly doesnt make sense to connect the shifter to the car, when the transmission and the cars deflection and twisting angles will never be the same.

 

[MGW]

To me those two comments contradict each other. That means there good be 2,3,4,5 design slight changes from when a customer could have ordered his a few months ago and when jo schmoe just got his "newest version.

I dont have a 5.0 (i do have your kit for my t45) and my origional statement was opinion based, but that somehow stirred you up enough to go off on a rant putting another product down by saying how good yours is.

Just because they function the same doesnt mean that they are the exact same like you say. They clearly dont even function the same, they reduce throw 40% while you reduce throw by 25%, to achieve that there has to be some slight mechanical differences. There are easily visible difference in the two products. And your rant, has been a turn off to your product, for myself and a few others.

I agree with one of the above posters, the shifter needs to be mounted soley to the trans somehow, and not to the car. Just like the sn-95 cars. To me it clearly doesnt make sense to connect the shifter to the car, when the transmission and the cars deflection and twisting angles will never be the same.

i think there is a BIG difference between "tweaking " a design over the 10 production batches based on cusotmer feedback which were cmainly choices of type of fasteners ( ie using a locknut instead of a lock washer and standard nut, making the dust boot a little softer only to ease the hassle of attaching it. ) these changes dont really make the shifter someone bought in the beginning any LESS of a shifter only harder to install etc. thats a big difference from making a product then completely changing it.

as far as turning you off i am sorry ( sincerely not just saying that) i posted that i was having a long day and flamed away on dave . i didnt retract it because the statements had merit but in the end i know that barton is a good company and that there will be people that will buy his and those that choose mine. but thats why its a free country.

i just get frustrated when people that have NOT noight my product and see what is involved with it base assumptions on its quality and price justification.

look at the other shifters out there... do they...

come with a cusotm shift boot. ( tooling was 6k!!! )

come with sound deadening and NVH dampening materials in the cost.

come with a billet lower box with stronger centering springs.

have a HARDENED and ground reverse lockout plate and pin. not plastic.

oh and also major major update!!! i just installed another v6 car today at 11 oclock from a soldier at ft stewart. we measured his throw stock...

3.750 from 3-4

ours is 2.500!!! so thats actually 30 percent plus. i originally made this shifter with a 3/4 inch longer shaft but TRavis ( the owner of this site and the one who made the great install videos suggested lowering it for better feel after they reviewed it.) well i never recaluclated the throw since i based it on the higher shaft. so the throw is not 25 its about 33 percent!!!

so in fact i was UNDER selling the shifter this whole time.

regards
george

 

[MGW]

and also ... to answer your thoughts on the shifter mounting solely to the tranny...

the rear pin bracket design i came up with years back does EXACTLY this. it allows FULL movement front to back WITH the tranny and motor. it works very very well and i track my boss302 regularly and never miss a shift ... EVER.


george

 

[terminal5]

and also ... to answer your thoughts on the shifter mounting solely to the tranny...

the rear pin bracket design i came up with years back does EXACTLY this. it allows FULL movement front to back WITH the tranny and motor. it works very very well and i track my boss302 regularly and never miss a shift ... EVER.


george

Front to back sure, that might prevent popping out of gear and help engagement some, but it seems the driveline twisting due to torque is the bigger issue that leads to missed gears.

The shifter is not mounted to the trans in that respect at all, it's mounted to the body.

I'm no shifter designer, but this doesn't make sense to me.

 

[MGW]

Front to back sure, that might prevent popping out of gear and help engagement some, but it seems the driveline twisting due to torque is the bigger issue that leads to missed gears.

The shifter is not mounted to the trans in that respect at all, it's mounted to the body.

I'm no shifter designer, but this doesn't make sense to me.

actually it is not. it IS mounted to the tranny with the steel swing arm on the left side of the shifter box. the rear pins really only "suspend" the shifter in place in the back to keep it horizontal. the shifter is SOLID mounted to the tranny and does move back and forth AND twist wise with our shifter. the problem with the stock rear bracket is that it allowed the tranny to twist the shifter too much. we just limit that movement but honestly if the motor had enough torque it theoretically could snap those 2 studs off in the back like nothing.


george

 

[AluminatorSnake]

i think there is a BIG difference between "tweaking " a design over the 10 production batches based on cusotmer feedback which were cmainly choices of type of fasteners ( ie using a locknut instead of a lock washer and standard nut, making the dust boot a little softer only to ease the hassle of attaching it. ) these changes dont really make the shifter someone bought in the beginning any LESS of a shifter only harder to install etc. thats a big difference from making a product then completely changing it.

as far as turning you off i am sorry ( sincerely not just saying that) i posted that i was having a long day and flamed away on dave . i didnt retract it because the statements had merit but in the end i know that barton is a good company and that there will be people that will buy his and those that choose mine. but thats why its a free country.

i just get frustrated when people that have NOT noight my product and see what is involved with it base assumptions on its quality and price justification.

look at the other shifters out there... do they...

come with a cusotm shift boot. ( tooling was 6k!!! )

come with sound deadening and NVH dampening materials in the cost.

come with a billet lower box with stronger centering springs.

have a HARDENED and ground reverse lockout plate and pin. not plastic.

oh and also major major update!!! i just installed another v6 car today at 11 oclock from a soldier at ft stewart. we measured his throw stock...

3.750 from 3-4

ours is 2.500!!! so thats actually 30 percent plus. i originally made this shifter with a 3/4 inch longer shaft but TRavis ( the owner of this site and the one who made the great install videos suggested lowering it for better feel after they reviewed it.) well i never recaluclated the throw since i based it on the higher shaft. so the throw is not 25 its about 33 percent!!!

so in fact i was UNDER selling the shifter this whole time.

regards
george

and also ... to answer your thoughts on the shifter mounting solely to the tranny...

the rear pin bracket design i came up with years back does EXACTLY this. it allows FULL movement front to back WITH the tranny and motor. it works very very well and i track my boss302 regularly and never miss a shift ... EVER.


george

Right on man i understand the time you put in and i know you have a nice product, just was a first impression that i had. Also giving you some saving grace to correct your "abrasive" retort to it to clear things up. I dont think anyone here will say that you dont have a good product. And ill never get rid of my mgw shifter for my t45

Also i understand the pin design, but its hard for me to believe that it moves exactly with the transmission while it is still connected by 2 bolts to the car. That would mean that the motor/tranny/shifter is torquing and flexing the sheetmetal of the car, the motor clearly has enough power to do that, but at the same time the stationary sheetmetal will add an opposite force to the shifter. The barton kit also is still connected to the car, so i feel its still partially flawed. Even when my 99 cobra was bone stock with the shifter, when i hit the gas the shifter moved along with the tranny with zero resistance.

 

[kingnut]

we have tested the throw reduction a BUNCH for months. we went 35 to start and the shifter felt wayyy too notchy and also we found some grinding in second gear when cold. lets face it ...in a perfect world shifters would be 95 percent reduction but its just not physically feasible. i wanted to appeal to the MASS majority and i htink our shifter setting is just about perfect.

BUT!~!!!!!

we have had several people wanting us to offer a shorter throw version and we have decided that we will now that full production is settled and we can play with "options"

will i go 40 percent. most likely not!! just too notchy. but 30 percent or possibly 35 like all our other shifters is in the cards.

the best part is the shifter will only be the top section so even if someone bought our previous shifter they can get the shorter throw if they choose.

but for me the 20 percent is still the BEST combination of smooth shifts , precise solid feedback and rock solid feel.

regards
george

i appreciate you responding to my comment. if you guys would make your SS with the ability to adjust the reduction of throw lets say (20%, 30%, 40%, 50%) i would definitely buy one. 40% might be to notchy for some, but others will like it... hell alot of people like the barton at 40%, so just give the consumer the option.

 

[terminal5]

the problem with the stock rear bracket is that it allowed the tranny to twist the shifter too much. we just limit that movement but honestly if the motor had enough torque it theoretically could snap those 2 studs off in the back like nothing.


george

That I can agree with. I've also been surprised at how beefy these brackets are yet they're only held on by two little 5 or 6mm studs.

 

[shadowstang03gt]

actually it is not. it IS mounted to the tranny with the steel swing arm on the left side of the shifter box. the rear pins really only "suspend" the shifter in place in the back to keep it horizontal. the shifter is SOLID mounted to the tranny and does move back and forth AND twist wise with our shifter. the problem with the stock rear bracket is that it allowed the tranny to twist the shifter too much. we just limit that movement but honestly if the motor had enough torque it theoretically could snap those 2 studs off in the back like nothing.


george

i would have bought an MGW, had i not gotta a steeda for $160 brand new on a sale.

I wouldnt waste my time fighting with these guys lol. Or maybe you should hire them all since they are all experts.

 

[slagburn]

Shifter wars!

My Barton bracket will be here Monday, will post up after that.

 

[hand-filer]

Both the Barton and MGW products are well made precision pieces. I know this first hand because I have owned both. When it comes to function there is a significant differance between the two.
The Barton lasted for a week before I removed it and sold it on ebay.
I just couldn't live with the noisy/notchy feel of the shifter.
The MGW is #50 of the first batch of 50. It is precise and it is quiet and like George I have never missed a shift either. I could care less if the latest version is even better than the first. A perfectionest is is own best critic.
There will always be MGW nut huggers and Barton nut huggers.
Personally I would wait 3 months for an MGW shifter because they outperform the competition in every way.

 

[terminal5]

I wouldnt waste my time fighting with these guys lol. Or maybe you should hire them all since they are all experts.

It may read like fighting, but I'm just trying to get how it all works by questioning what I don't understand.

I'm not specifically questioning the MGW design, more the reasoning of using a heavy duty bracket to fix the shifter to the car body, which all the manufacturers are using. (This thread is about the Barton bracket BTW.)

I appreciate the fact that George has responded to my questions. I assume his products are properly engineered, so explaining theories behind the design should help sell shifters. That won't be a waste of his time. ;-)